Cabin Air Filter @ 19K Miles -- photos

[Rawah652]

If you live in a dusty environment (or actually take the vehicle off-road) I would stay away from the K&N filters. They're great if you're trying to go fast and don't care about longevity, but the oil on the filter isn't great at keeping dust and other fine particulate matter out of your cabin or engine.

I had tried the K&N in both my engine and cabin at my 6000 mile service, but ended up returning them after two weeks when I got A LOT more dust smell and actual dust in my cabin during a dust storm (thankfully O'Reilly's is great and gave me a refund). The cons of living in El Paso, but definitely a place I am more concerned about how useful the filter actually is.

Anecdotes aside, Project Farm did an interesting test on the engine filters a while ago, here's the video for that:

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[wireman]

I'm on the fence on the K&N filters, especially the air filters.

They have to be properly cleaned and oiled. Over oiling can't be good for MAF sensors, etc.

I believe there's a fine line on proper oiling.

I used to use them in my cars 20+ years ago and also in a sand rail I drove at Glamis.

I just feel more comfortable now using OEM or regular paper filters. But, to each his own on their preference.

 

[Bill G]

I'm on the fence on the K&N filters, especially the air filters.

They have to be properly cleaned and oiled. Over oiling can't be good for MAF sensors, etc.

I believe there's a fine line on proper oiling.

I used to use them in my cars 20+ years ago and also in a sand rail I drove at Glamis.

I just feel more comfortable now using OEM or regular paper filters. But, to each his own on their preference.

You’re right on the oiling. I run a K&N on my Tiger, but it’s a ’66 — no sensors or fancy stuff and never goes “off road”. On these new vehicles I, too, stick with OEM filters.

 

[Quashish]

My dealership charges $80 for the filter. That’s a 400% markup and it takes less than 60 seconds to change it yourself.

? WTF

 

[PaulOinMA]

Cabin air filter much easier to change than on my '14 Escape where it was down low in the center of the dash. Very easy DIY now.

The '14 was o.k. to do, just longer.

 

[imaynzr]

good idea to get the cheapest quality brand. a mouse chewed mine to shreds.

 

[sajohnson]

If you live in a dusty environment (or actually take the vehicle off-road) I would stay away from the K&N filters. They're great if you're trying to go fast and don't care about longevity, but the oil on the filter isn't great at keeping dust and other fine particulate matter out of your cabin or engine.

I had tried the K&N in both my engine and cabin at my 6000 mile service, but ended up returning them after two weeks when I got A LOT more dust smell and actual dust in my cabin during a dust storm (thankfully O'Reilly's is great and gave me a refund). The cons of living in El Paso, but definitely a place I am more concerned about how useful the filter actually is.

Anecdotes aside, Project Farm did an interesting test on the engine filters a while ago, here's the video for that:

Interesting video. I've seen a few by that guy, he's good.

One minor detail, the OP is talking about *cabin* air filters, but I can see where someone reading "K&N" might think of engine air filters.

And now for some anecdotal evidence that K&N filters are wonderful: I've run K&N in almost every vehicle I've owned. All have high miles -- from almost 200K to 250,000 miles. None of them burn/burned much oil (maybe a pint between 7,500 oil changes. No loss of compression (on those I checked).

Added benefit -- all of the abrasive grit passing thru the K&N keeps the intake valves, combustion chambers, and the pistons squeaky clean! ;-)

Seriously, because we used to put a lot of miles on our cars, the K&N filters saved money.

As for the BS BL, we drive very little now. The OE engine filter will last years. So a K&N would take a long time (if ever) to pay for itself.

Regarding any performance increase, that's minimal -- only noticeable (maybe) on the track.

 

[sajohnson]

"Back in my day, we didn't have no stinkin' cabin air filters -- and we LIKED it!"

Welcome to the house of mirrors -- the wonderful whacky world of filters!

There are a lot of wild, misleading claims when in comes to filters -- air, oil, water, etc. A few points:

* All else equal, more surface area (more pleats) = better.

* Micron rating is important. The filter must be efficient enough to trap (almost) all listed contaminants. IIRC, a couple posts in this thread said the OE filter is N95, if so, that's good.

* Flow rating. As some posts mentioned, some are overly restrictive.

From Honeywell:

"95: Masks ending in a 95, have a 95 percent efficiency. Masks ending in a 99 have a 99 percent efficiency. Masks ending in 100 are 99.97 percent efficient and that is the same as a HEPA quality filter.

.3 microns: The masks filter out contaminants like dusts, mists and fumes. The minimum size of .3 microns of particulates and large droplets won’t pass through the barrier, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC.)"

Those are important specs. N95 should be fine. HEPA level filtration would be nice, but would likely be too restrictive. I know the HEPA filter I bought for our small shop vac really reduces its performance -- but that exhaust air sure is clean!

Much of the rest are features like baking soda, activated carbon, and magical metal particles.

Activated carbon can of course be effective in some applications. For example, it is used in many water filters that are certified to NSF 42 (taste & odor) and 53 (health effects). Most of the highly rated NSF 53 filters restrict the water flow rate to increase contact time, in order to boost performance.

I haven't studied cabin air filters very much, but I doubt a thin layer of carbon will be very effective when air is being sucked thru it at high velocity. Of course I hope I'm wrong.

 

[NMhunter]

I bought a K&N engine air filter for my Jeep Liberty. I read the directions and it said not to use it in dusty environments. I live in a dusty environment, so I never installed it. There was a time when I couldn't afford expensive filters, so oil bath filters made sense. Not so much anymore.

 

[sajohnson]

K&N's claims:

- WHAT IS THE MICRON RATING AND EFFICIENCY OF A K&N® AIR FILTER?
Micron ratings are typically used only for liquid filters. K&N® tests filtration efficiency and capacity using the ISO 5011 laboratory test procedure, and most K&N® air filters test between 97%-99% efficiency. Many K&N air filters have published test data included in the “Available Information” section of the product details page.

- HOW EFFICIENT ARE K&N® FILTERS AT TRAPPING CONTAMINANTS?
Laboratory tests utilizing ISO 5011 test protocols demonstrate that most K&N® air filters achieve overall filtration efficiency in the range of 97% to 99%. (The ability of an air filter to protect an engine is generally measured in accordance with laboratory testing procedure ISO 5011.) K&N® air filter designs are subjected to ISO 5011 testing involving coarse and fine test dust, and the test results are measured by a specific air filtration efficiency number. K&N® filters are designed to provide exceptional airflow while simultaneously targeting an overall filtration efficiency that meets or exceeds OEM standards.

- DOES INCREASED AIRFLOW MEAN THAT MORE DIRT WILL GET THROUGH THE FILTER?
No. Most disposable filters are "barrier filters,” which act as a physical barrier to dust particles. Once a dust particle covers a pore in the media, air can no longer flow through that space. K&N® replacement air filters are designed to absorb dirt and dust particles instead of physically blocking them, allowing the pores in the material to continue flowing air.

~~~

Good info on ISO 5011 here (post #1):
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/air-filter-iso-5011-testing-process.330162/

Here is a K&N filter test document:
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://kandn.com/dynocharts/33-3153L.pdf

As I suspected, they test using only "coarse dust" (at least in this case). Efficiency is ~99%. That begs the question, what is the efficiency when tested with fine dust? To be fair, they do claim that "K&N® air filter designs are subjected to ISO 5011 testing involving coarse and fine test dust..."

Something to consider is that maybe most dust in the majority of locations is the size of the "coarse dust" used in ISO testing (or larger). That would explain why we do not hear about engines running K&N filters losing compression and becoming huge oil burners. There are tens of millions of K&N filters out there, in a variety of applications -- K&N filters may not be very efficient at the smaller dust sizes, but if there are very few of those smaller particles that isn't an issue.

Of course I don't know if that is actually the case, but it would explain things.

 

[Gunther706]

I ended up spending $40 on OEM engine and cabin air filters (17 and 22 and change, respectively) and $12 on shipping from Levittown Ford up in NY. Perhaps still a little high, but it beat the crap out of the >$220 the local dealer wanted to do both of them for me.

I will give credit where it is due though, I've never had a dealer so good at convincing me to spend more time maintaining my own car, I've got my last oil change tools for the badlands arriving this week

 

[davidg4781]

I ended up spending $40 on OEM engine and cabin air filters (17 and 22 and change, respectively) and $12 on shipping from Levittown Ford up in NY. Perhaps still a little high, but it beat the crap out of the >$220 the local dealer wanted to do both of them for me.

I will give credit where it is due though, I've never had a dealer so good at convincing me to spend more time maintaining my own car, I've got my last oil change tools for the badlands arriving this week

That's a pretty good price. It's annoying we have to do that, though.

I got lucky at a Honda dealer once. I asked for the price and told him I didn't want it. He asked why and I told him it'll be cheaper to order them online and still pay for shipping. He gave me a discount. It came out about the same, maybe a little less, but I didn't have to wait.

 

[sajohnson]

That's a pretty good price. It's annoying we have to do that, though.

I got lucky at a Honda dealer once. I asked for the price and told him I didn't want it. He asked why and I told him it'll be cheaper to order them online and still pay for shipping. He gave me a discount. It came out about the same, maybe a little less, but I didn't have to wait.

IDK if this is still the case, but years ago, when you'd call a dealer's parts dept and ask for the price on a part, they would invariably quote something very high. Then if you'd ask if you could get the wholesale price, they'd almost always say yes and knock a large percentage off the price.

No Tax ID # or anything else needed.

I always thought that was very odd.

 

[Wolf256]

This is what I went with.

https://a.co/d/8po7Blf

 

[sajohnson]

This is what I went with.

https://a.co/d/8po7Blf

The description sounds good.

Without any independent testing, it's impossible to know how any auto filter performs. For example, for water filters there is NSF, WQA, and CSA. For vehicle filters, there is no independent testing lab(s) -- AFAIK.

This (from the Amazon page) is odd:

Under "Function", they seem to confuse a cabin air filter with an engine air filter. Even if it was an engine air filter, whether or not the A/C is operating makes no difference.

Under "Why Choose Us" they mention "efficiency up to 95%." Of course, efficiency claims without a particle size are meaningless.

Then, in that same section is the claim that the filter is effective against: CO; HCHO; and SO2.

Like I said at the top though, if the description of the construction is correct, they are probably decent filters. I sure wish there was independent testing though.

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