OP
OP
- Thread starter
- #46
BMS Software … That reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon where Wally says ‘I'M GONNA WRITE ME A NEW MINIVAN THIS AFTERNOON!’
Instead of baffling us with BS and electronic gimmickry, why not simply include a volt meter so we can see what’s going on with the battery at speed and at idle. Seemed like a decent and useful feature in vehicles for 8 or 9 decades prior to this…. No?
And while I’m at it…. We shouldn’t have to buy battery tenders and/or plug in volt meters, to maintain and monitor battery health; especially for new vehicles that are driven regularly, unless operating way outside of normal driving parameters.
but…. That’s just my 2 cents
And while I’m at it…. We shouldn’t have to buy battery tenders and/or plug in volt meters, to maintain and monitor battery health; especially for new vehicles that are driven regularly, unless operating way outside of normal driving parameters.
but…. That’s just my 2 cents
- First Name
- Sherman
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2021
- Threads
- 29
- Messages
- 1,813
- Reaction score
- 1,848
- Location
- MIDDLETOWN, MD
- Vehicle(s)
- '22 Badlands ordered 12/17/2021 - Arrived 3/25/22
Agreed!
A built in voltmeter with reasonable accuracy would be a tremendous help! We could tell at a glance if the charging system is working.
Perhaps there is a 'meter' that plugs into the 12V outlet that has acceptable accuracy.
As it is, I check the battery with my Fluke meter and I connect the BT when necessary..
You are correct that BS owners who drive enough to keep the battery at close to 100% SOC should not have to use a BT. Still, it's not a bad idea to check the voltage once in a while, but not absolutely necessary.
Most people leave their car parked for a fairly long time on occasion, like when on vacation. For those times it's handy to have a BT. Disconnecting the battery is also an option.
The reason I have so many BT units is that I have several vehicles that sit for long periods of time.
The Badlands is my wife's SUV, and it doesn't get driven very much. In fact, I'm getting ready to go out and check the battery in a few minutes. Fortunately, it's never been critically low, and usually, when I've checked it after she has driven it (and it has sat for >2 hours) the voltage has been OK. In fact sometimes it has been 12.8-12.9V! A few times it was low.
We started it twice yesterday to move it short distances, so I expect the battery to be a bit low.
OP
OP
- Thread starter
- #49
@KidWiff, @sajohnson …
Engineering Test Mode includes displaying battery voltage, coolant temp, etc. You can display these and more on the instrument cluster. I don’t remember how precise and accurate the displayed battery voltage is nor do I know how often battery voltage is calculated and displayed but I believe it’s pretty accurate.
I do not know if it is allowed to drive with Engineering Test Mode enabled as I did .. see my Post #12 at 1st link below for my experience doing that.
https://www.broncosportforum.com/using-engineering-test-mode/
More on Engineering Test Mode:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/ford-maverick-owners-find-secret-konami-code-to-hack-into-trucks-gauge-cluster
Engineering Test Mode includes displaying battery voltage, coolant temp, etc. You can display these and more on the instrument cluster. I don’t remember how precise and accurate the displayed battery voltage is nor do I know how often battery voltage is calculated and displayed but I believe it’s pretty accurate.
I do not know if it is allowed to drive with Engineering Test Mode enabled as I did .. see my Post #12 at 1st link below for my experience doing that.
https://www.broncosportforum.com/using-engineering-test-mode/
More on Engineering Test Mode:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/ford-maverick-owners-find-secret-konami-code-to-hack-into-trucks-gauge-cluster
- First Name
- Sherman
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2021
- Threads
- 29
- Messages
- 1,813
- Reaction score
- 1,848
- Location
- MIDDLETOWN, MD
- Vehicle(s)
- '22 Badlands ordered 12/17/2021 - Arrived 3/25/22
Very helpful, thank you!
I didn't see a voltmeter mentioned at either link, but maybe I missed it.
Either way, that's useful. Cool that you can calibrate the mpg reading (which is usually optimistic).
If you put a Volt Meter in them the younger generation drivers wouldn't know what Voltage Reading was good or bad.
So they put all the other electronic stuff in them the younger generation knows how to operate or care about.
Maybe I'm confusing and conflating what I've been reading in this forum with stuff I've read at both Ford Authority and other news channels, but my minds says something like 5 or so BS have quit while driving. After reading posts above this one not sure now if it was at speed or the "low speed" mentioned.
So, in actuality, probably not a Ralph Nader Corsair moment or a Pinto moment, but it certainly feels like one. Certainly bad PR for Ford as the BS is a pretty successful offering. And I'm sure law suits will be attempted.
Had the recall reprogramming done today. Drove about 30 miles afterwards. Did some shopping, nothing unusual took place. Repair receipt states, performed FSA 24S24. Installed PCM and BCM software updates. Performed self-test, no DTCs present. Recall complete. Doesn't appear that battery status testing was performed along with the recall. Same battery that came with the BS 1/2022. I'll report if anything negative happens down the road.
- First Name
- Sherman
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2021
- Threads
- 29
- Messages
- 1,813
- Reaction score
- 1,848
- Location
- MIDDLETOWN, MD
- Vehicle(s)
- '22 Badlands ordered 12/17/2021 - Arrived 3/25/22
After we each called a couple times and got voicemail, my wife spoke with someone at our local (selling) dealer's service dept today.
They said, "We're booked solid for a month. Continue driving at your own risk! Ford Motor Company is not responsible for accidents, injuries, or deaths resulting from continued operation of your vehicle..."
OK, not exactly, but recall appointments are almost a month out.
Luckily, I've been using a Battery Tender (BT) on it, which is a magical device that prevents all electrical problems for the life of the vehicle. I can't explain how it works without divulging national defense secrets, but you can buy them thru my affiliate link at...
From post #49:
"We started it twice yesterday to move it short distances, so I expect the battery to be a bit low."
Today: My wife just left on a grocery run. The battery voltage was 12.57. Not bad, considering it's over 2 years old and it had been started, briefly, twice on Sunday (I never put the BT on it).
After the Badlands sits for a couple hours after she gets home I'll check it again. It's a good test because the trip is only ~12-13 miles r/t, with 2 stops. It is all open road though.
Bottom line, I think the BS BL can make it another month.
<Later> I spoke too soon. Out of curiosity I checked the voltage right after she returned, and instead of the usual surface charge (~13+ volts) it was 12.63V. The only load I'm aware of was the rear cargo light. If it stays at 12.63 that's OK.
They said, "We're booked solid for a month. Continue driving at your own risk! Ford Motor Company is not responsible for accidents, injuries, or deaths resulting from continued operation of your vehicle..."
OK, not exactly, but recall appointments are almost a month out.
Luckily, I've been using a Battery Tender (BT) on it, which is a magical device that prevents all electrical problems for the life of the vehicle. I can't explain how it works without divulging national defense secrets, but you can buy them thru my affiliate link at...
From post #49:
"We started it twice yesterday to move it short distances, so I expect the battery to be a bit low."
Today: My wife just left on a grocery run. The battery voltage was 12.57. Not bad, considering it's over 2 years old and it had been started, briefly, twice on Sunday (I never put the BT on it).
After the Badlands sits for a couple hours after she gets home I'll check it again. It's a good test because the trip is only ~12-13 miles r/t, with 2 stops. It is all open road though.
Bottom line, I think the BS BL can make it another month.
<Later> I spoke too soon. Out of curiosity I checked the voltage right after she returned, and instead of the usual surface charge (~13+ volts) it was 12.63V. The only load I'm aware of was the rear cargo light. If it stays at 12.63 that's OK.
- First Name
- David
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2023
- Threads
- 20
- Messages
- 487
- Reaction score
- 650
- Location
- New Jersey
- Vehicle(s)
- 2019 Edge, 2024 Bronco Sport Badlands
From my understanding of how auto start stop works through owning Ford Escapes and Edge before the Bronco Sport. Assuming the auto start stop is working properly, I still do not understand how the auto start stop would turn off the engine if the battery charge was low to the point of not being able to restart the engine. If the auto start stop is working properly the engine will not turn off at a stop if the battery is not sufficiently charged. That is why when first starting out after not driving the vehicle for a few days the auto start stop will not turn off the engine initially. The message will say something like Engine Charging (do not remember exact words). Interestingly the owners manual of my 24 BS does not provide instances why the auto start stop does not shut the engine off. This is from a 24 Escape Manual. As you can see from the list below the auto start stop is not supposed to engage if the battery charge is low. Assuming that the battery charge is low enough to not restart the BS is there a problem with Auto Start Stop system being able to detect a low battery charge or is it a situation where there is a sudden drop in the battery charge sufficient enough to prevent the BS from restarting because the battery suddenly became defective.
AUTO-START-STOP –
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
Why does the engine not always stop when I expect it to?
The system is designed to work in a way that complements other vehicle systems,
allowing them to operate at optimum performance.
The system does not stop the engine if:
• The driver door is open.
• The driver seatbelt is unfastened.
• Your vehicle is at high altitude.
• The heated windshield is on.
• The transmission is in manual (M).
• Your vehicle is on a steep grade.
• The engine is warming up.
• The outside temperature is too low or too high.
• The battery charge is low.
• The battery temperature is outside the optimal operating range.
• The engine is required to run to maintain interior climate and reduce fogging.
AUTO-START-STOP –
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
Why does the engine not always stop when I expect it to?
The system is designed to work in a way that complements other vehicle systems,
allowing them to operate at optimum performance.
The system does not stop the engine if:
• The driver door is open.
• The driver seatbelt is unfastened.
• Your vehicle is at high altitude.
• The heated windshield is on.
• The transmission is in manual (M).
• Your vehicle is on a steep grade.
• The engine is warming up.
• The outside temperature is too low or too high.
• The battery charge is low.
• The battery temperature is outside the optimal operating range.
• The engine is required to run to maintain interior climate and reduce fogging.
OP
OP
- First Name
- David
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2023
- Threads
- 20
- Messages
- 487
- Reaction score
- 650
- Location
- New Jersey
- Vehicle(s)
- 2019 Edge, 2024 Bronco Sport Badlands
I am not an engineer so my wording might not be entirely correct. So the BCM and PCM are supposed to be able to check the battery charge level and are not doing that and therefore the BS still allows the auto start stop to shut the engine off and at some point the battery charge is low enough that it cannot restart the BS? Is it also that the systems are charging the battery properly until some point where it is no longer doing that?
I hope Ford got this one right and what ever is causing the issue will be resolved. This can be a very scary issue when it happens. Especially in later model years where you can't put the BS in neutral to move it without jumping the battery or having the service key since the manual brake release cable was deleted.
- First Name
- Sherman
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2021
- Threads
- 29
- Messages
- 1,813
- Reaction score
- 1,848
- Location
- MIDDLETOWN, MD
- Vehicle(s)
- '22 Badlands ordered 12/17/2021 - Arrived 3/25/22
Helpful post, thanks!
The culprit is clearly, "... a sudden drop in the battery charge sufficient enough to prevent the BS from restarting because the battery suddenly became defective." No other possibility.
j/kThat is what the recall refers to: :...a sudden change in the 12 volt battery SOC..." That implies that batteries suddenly became defective due to internal damage/factory defect -- which is certainly possible but typically uncommon, unless there is a bad batch of batteries.
It certainly could be sudden failure,, but in this case (auto stop/start failing to restart the engine) the battery would have to be, or appear, healthy (sufficient SOC) and then suddenly die in the (usually) short time span between stopping and starting.
One possibility is that because SOC is determined by voltage, which is not always an accurate indicator, the *actual* SOC could be lower than it seems. A sulfated battery can have a misleadingly high voltage if it has just been charged and no significant load is placed on it. It may run low load accessories, but not be able to run the starter. It may not even have enough juice to operate the starter solenoid (no 'click').
It would be interesting to diagnose the batteries that fail.
Of course the alternative that you stated -- "...a problem with Auto Start Stop system being able to detect a low battery charge..." is definitely possible.
One thing I'm curious about is how the auto start/stop determines battery voltage/SOC when the engine is running and the alternator is operating.
Sponsored
Last edited: