Defective Battery, Recall 24S24 and other topics

[Tigger]

mobile service tech arrived and cast the demons out of the software yesterday
begone bugaboos out out
all good now

I’ve read this whole thread and this is the first post I’ve understood.

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[Mark S.]

When we're working on a new program, so often do we scrap a feature I think is awesome simply because market research says it's not worth the money.

Engineers adding features for the sake of having cool features has been the downfall of many a software company. Microsoft just about single-handedly destroyed its Office suite in the 90s by fast-tracking new features to stay ahead of rivals. The problem was it failed to take the time to apply basic quality control measures resulting in pervasive, massive security holes which overseas hackers promptly took advantage of. Remember the macro viruses?

If MS's software engineers had only stopped to think for a moment they would have realized the overwhelming majority of Office users not only didn't understand the new features, they almost certainly never take the time to learn anything about them. In other words, it was engineers adding features to impress their fellow engineers.

 

[Dude]

…engineers adding features to impress their fellow engineers

 

[coopny]

Engineers adding features for the sake of having cool features has been the downfall of many a software company. Microsoft just about single-handedly destroyed its Office suite in the 90s by fast-tracking new features to stay ahead of rivals. The problem was it failed to take the time to apply basic quality control measures resulting in pervasive, massive security holes which overseas hackers promptly took advantage of. Remember the macro viruses?

If MS's software engineers had only stopped to think for a moment they would have realized the overwhelming majority of Office users not only didn't understand the new features, they almost certainly never take the time to learn anything about them. In other words, it was engineers adding features to impress their fellow engineers.

I get not adding features for features sake -Office became unbearable. Like the assistants (notably clippy) which were based on Microsoft Bob... a project led by Microsoft employee Melinda French (who later got married and became Melinda Gates. I wonder why that was put in office?...)

Trying to compare the two however is very different. A battery health measure is not a feature for a feature's sake. This recall makes it more important in a sense, but measuring battery health and advising of possible low battery health is not some whizbang WordArt or Macro feature with a ton of security risk.

In terms of understanding the functionality, there's not a lot to understand. If the screen on your dash says "battery health bad - see dealer" (Ford did not disclose the exact text of the error message, but I assume it will be plain in language), you're going to get your battery tested and replaced if need be. It's not adding fifty more buttons or menu options to the vehicle.

 

[Dude]

…Ford did not disclose the exact text of the error message, but I assume it will be plain in language..

A few people posted battery messages after getting the recall. Looks very similar to messages prior to the recall.

7/3/2024: an owner posted they saw the following message after getting Recall 24S24:

‘check charging system now’

Shortly after that the vehicle died but owner was able to restart the vehicle.

 

[Mark S.]

Trying to compare the two however is very different. A battery health measure is not a feature for a feature's sake.

Earlier in the paragraph which I partially quoted is this sentence:

...this isn't done because if the operator is requesting a startup they are probably in the vehicle, minus remote start. and if the turnover feels/sounds sluggish, then your battery is probably getting old and is ready to be replaced soon.

I'm skeptical that a battery health monitor will provide a better warning of a worn-out battery than labored cranking during engine start. This is the primary reason I believe this recall is not ab out bad batteries. Starting the engine places the greatest stress on a car battery; if it can start the engine without obvious signs of distress then it's likely good. If it doesn't get recharged while you're driving it, however, then even the best battery will eventually fail.

 

[coopny]

I'm skeptical that a battery health monitor will provide a better warning of a worn-out battery than labored cranking during engine start. This is the primary reason I believe this recall is not ab out bad batteries. Starting the engine places the greatest stress on a car battery; if it can start the engine without obvious signs of distress then it's likely good. If it doesn't get recharged while you're driving it, however, then even the best battery will eventually fail.

Out of the two events leading to battery replacement in my 2015 Ford Fusion, one was hesitation on start that led me to get a battery test (which failed), and the other was a battery test done as a routine check during Ford's "The Works" (oil change and other stuff) with no hesitation before it.

Hesitation during start is a good way to call for a potential battery test to ensure you aren't left high and dry, but that can just be caused by the battery having a low state of charge (perhaps from use in accessory mode, short drives, parasitic draw, or long periods between drives).

The relevant modules in the car keeping an eye on what the voltage and CCAs as well as minimum voltage during start events are something the car can keep an eye on, and if the car is falling short of what it's rated for, alert the driver. Essentially like having a battery tester be run every time you run the vehicle, except the vehicle keeps an eye on the values and lets you know if it thinks you should have the battery checked.

Most batteries perform better than their rated CCAs for several years, and it's possible to have a battery with less CCAs than the sticker start the car without hesitation (depending on temperature and other conditions). This is why you'll see people fail battery tests and go "but my car starts fine".

Anyways, I'm the type of person that got a $20 bluetooth enabled battery tester on AliExpress and when I get hesitation during start, I test my batteries at home, since it takes two minutes. The overwhelming majority of the time, it reads battery fine, please charge and I get an auto battery charger out.

(As a separate topic for this recall, I did check what was in FORScan for the BCM, and the target max charge threshold in the BS after the recall updates to BCM/PCM is still 80% SoC. That did not change as a result of the recall. What Ford's motivation for this is, I'm not sure - perhaps they have studies that batteries last longer at 80% SoC...)

 

[sajohnson]

(As a separate topic for this recall, I did check what was in FORScan for the BCM, and the target max charge threshold in the BS after the recall updates to BCM/PCM is still 80% SoC. That did not change as a result of the recall. What Ford's motivation for this is, I'm not sure - perhaps they have studies that batteries last longer at 80% SoC...)

Ideally, lead-acid batteries are kept at 100% SOC.

I can think of no reason for Ford to shoot for 80%. Maybe there's some info missing?

 

[coopny]

Ideally, lead-acid batteries are kept at 100% SOC.

I can think of no reason for Ford to shoot for 80%. Maybe there's some info missing?

This is the target Ford has set in the BCM.

I assume that there's a purpose, like noticing overcharged batteries, and that being more damaging than slightly undercharged, but I would be speculating.

 

[Dude]

We don’t know for sure that parameter is used at all. Could be hard coded in the BCM.

We know virtually nothing about the BCMs algorithms.

 

[sajohnson]

We don’t know for sure that parameter is used at all. Could be hard coded in the BCM.

We know virtually nothing about the BCMs algorithms.

I was on the team that wrote the algorithms!

 

[Dude]

I was on the team that wrote the algorithms!

Wow! Impressive team!

 

[Bill G]

primo coder, and now I can pick up chicks . . . Jack!

 

[KidWiff]

Had the recall work done. Dropped it off on the evening of 6/19 and picked up on 6/20.... so far so good.

Along with the recall, i had them look at my infotainment screen issues (screen went black intermittently and when the screen DID work, the rearview camera would stay on while in drive (VERY trippy) plus a couple of other screen related issues i noticed. Upon pickup, they said i was good to go, all recall work complete and the screen issue was fixed by a software update.

 

[coopny]

We don’t know for sure that parameter is used at all. Could be hard coded in the BCM.

We know virtually nothing about the BCMs algorithms.

Be that as it may, after turning the battery off and waiting a couple hours for surface charge to subside, I have never measured a value in excess of 12.48V using a battery tester. Post recall I measured 12.45v.

80% would be 12.5V on AGM/EFB. 100% SoC would be 13V.

Best I can tell, the BCM's 80% SoC parameter is being heeded.

This is anecdotal, but consistent with the pre-recall battery charging behavior.

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