Defective Battery, Recall 24S24 and other topics

[DadofTim]

My 2023 OB is getting the updated program today

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[Sojourner]

Proud owner of a 1988 Aerostar XLT at one time.

Same here, though a 1991 AWD Eddie Bauer extended. Loved it. The Windstar replaced the Aerostar.

 

[Sojourner]

This thread.... Wow.

Am I wrong to think this has all the makings of another Ford Pinto debacle? Auto dying while driving is not some minor thing. Could be a PR catastrophe. Not even counting the Ralph Nader types and ambulace-chasing lawyers smelling blood.

 

[Mark S.]

This thread.... Wow.

Am I wrong to think this has all the makings of another Ford Pinto debacle? Auto dying while driving is not some minor thing. Could be a PR catastrophe. Not even counting the Ralph Nader types and ambulace-chasing lawyers smelling blood.

I can only recall a single instance of the car dying while driving; I don't know if the problem this recall was meant to correct was involved. In every other case, the car was stopped and failed to restart after the auto stop/start system shut down the engine.

 

[Dude]

I can only recall a single instance of the car dying while driving; I don't know if the problem this recall was meant to correct was involved. In every other case, the car was stopped and failed to restart after the auto stop/start system shut down the engine.

Is this on your Bronco Sport?

 

[Mark S.]

Is this on your Bronco Sport?

No, it was a post here on the site. IIRC, the poster said the dashboard lit up, and the engine quit while the car was in motion. That's the only post I can recall of a Bronco Sport engine quitting while the car was in motion. All other posts related to this recall involve the car not restarting after an auto stop/start shutdown.

 

[Dude]

No, it was a post here on the site. IIRC, the poster said the dashboard lit up, and the engine quit while the car was in motion. That's the only post I can recall of a Bronco Sport engine quitting while the car was in motion. All other posts related to this recall involve the car not restarting after an auto stop/start shutdown.

I think you are 100% correct, the confirmed instances of a Bronco Sport engine quitting while the car was in motion seems to be pretty small.

Ford and NHTSA likely have more data it would seem. And I thought there were quite a few on the various Facebook Bronco Sport groups but when I went back to check two of the most popular groups all were cases of the car not restarting after an auto stop/start except maybe the one in the attached pic stating “shuts down going 80 on the highway”.

In that case the thread was about vehicle shut down due to the battery however the posted comment shown in the attached pic was not clear as to the actual cause.

I didn’t do an exhaustive search so there could be more cases listed in the Fb groups but most people provide sparse posts and not always clear what happened or what the dealerships fix was. Although there is a lot of “battery replaced, and no further issues were seen” according to what they posted. If the problem never reoccurred, it could also mean there could be a number of defective batteries perhaps but that is just conjecture on my part.

 

[sajohnson]

Yep, got 32 months out of it.

Aside from smokin' hot areas (Phoenix; parts of Texas; the CA desert) 32 months is a very short lifetime.

With these failures, there is a question as to whether the battery was bad to begin with (or initially OK, but then experienced a failure like shorted plates) -- or the battery was perfectly fine but the changing system killed it by allowing the SOC to drop too low (and remain low).

I agree that healthy batteries usually fail gradually due to sulfation, and in other than extreme climates they last around 4-6 years. That suggests that the charging system was at fault in these BS sudden power loss failures -- in which case, the recall should correct the issue..

However, as I and others have said, if that's the case, then at a minimum, the recall is very poorly written. It misleadingly mentions sudden battery degradation, and a sudden decrease in SOC. The only way for those things to happen suddenly is due to a battery failure like a shorted cell.

I have read that there were problems with Motorcraft batteries during COVID when there were supply shortages and a lot of pressure on mfrs -- but IDK how much of an issue that actually was.

Lastly, according to the recall, the failure you just experienced should not have happened. One of the things it is suppose to do is increase the alternator output in the event of a battery failure, to keep the BS running on the alternator alone. So your experience is very discouraging.

 

[Dude]

…
However, as I and others have said, if that's the case, then at a minimum, the recall is very poorly written. It misleadingly mentions sudden battery degradation, and a sudden decrease in SOC.
…

Perhaps the wording of “sudden” was being misinterpreted because I noticed that term was not used in the Ford Help article (Post #1).

Instead “decreasing performance” was substituted at least 3 times in the article, e.g.

“the decreasing performance in the life of a 12-volt battery”

 

[Mark S.]

Aside from smokin' hot areas (Phoenix; parts of Texas; the CA desert) 32 months is a very short lifetime.

Car batteries typically last 3-5 years. As you note, environment and use (mainly discharge cycles) can have a major effect.

https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/articles/How-Long-Do-Car-Batteries-Last

https://www.interstatebatteries.com/blog/how-long-do-car-batteries-usually-last

I have read that there were problems with Motorcraft batteries during COVID when there were supply shortages and a lot of pressure on mfrs -- but IDK how much of an issue that actually was.

Given the goals of this recall, I suspect many of those reported "bad batteries" were simply not properly recharged by the car's elaborate battery management system software.

So your experience is very discouraging.

Agreed. The software modification should have prevented the auto start/stop system from shutting down the engine if the battery was too weak to restart the engine.

 

[Dude]

I can only recall a single instance of the car dying while driving; I don't know if the problem this recall was meant to correct was involved. In every other case, the car was stopped and failed to restart after the auto stop/start system shut down the engine.

While re-reading the Ford Help article (Post #1), Ford does mention auto start/stop but just noticed it also states “or stalling while coming to a stop at low speeds” which seems pretty clear that the vehicle can die at low speeds.

Here is the complete paragraph which is in the Frequently Asked Questions section:
“A software issue may cause a loss of vehicle power that can result in the vehicle not restarting after an auto start/stop or stalling while coming to a stop at low speeds.”

 

[sajohnson]

So, last fall in Wisconsin, I sat parked with the engine off listening to the radio and eating lunch. The radio and accessories stopped like it was supposed to a few minutes later. I pressed the start button again without starting the BS BB and listened to the radio a couple more minutes when my dash stated something about battery. So, I went to start the car and the dash all lit up and messages were appearing on my dash screen. The BS would not turn over. I had a dead battery! I took battery out and walked it over to an auto place store. They charged it in order to test it and stated I had a bad battery won't hold a charge. So, I bought a new AGM battery from them. BS started right up. Ford tested their old battery and agreed it was a bad battery at 24 months. Gave me another Ford AGM battery. I have this in my garage as a backup for my old boat or other need. I don't trust the Ford batteries so never swapped it out with the auto place battery I bought. 8 months later I got the recall to update the accessories. Had it done. This is my experience.

Since you have a 2022 BS, and the battery failed in the fall of '23, I'm guessing it was <2 years old.

So, was the battery bad, or was it the fault of the charging system? Since you said:

"I took battery out and walked it over to an auto place store. They charged it in order to test it and stated I had a bad battery won't hold a charge", and "Ford tested their old battery and agreed it was a bad battery at 24 months."

it seems like the battery may have been defective. Of course it could have been only partially charged, and over a period of time became sulfated. It's impossible to know when they just say it's 'bad.'

Do you have the spare AGM on a battery maintainer?

 

[sajohnson]

Although there is a lot of “battery replaced, and no further issues were seen” according to what they posted. If the problem never reoccurred, it could also mean there could be a number of defective batteries perhaps but that is just conjecture on my part.

The hell you say!

 

[Dude]

The hell you say!

Or they just needed to wait a few more days or months for the brand new battery to also exhibit the issue that Recall 24S24 purports to solve ?

 

[sajohnson]

Or they just needed to wait a few more days or months for the brand new battery to also exhibit the issue that Recall 24S24 purports to solve ? (I tossed in “defective” for you)

That raises another issue -- aside from "which came first, the dead battery or the defective charging system..." when people have a problem and get the battery replaced, they usually say they lived happily ever after ('problem cleared'). Of course, as you said, the replacement battery will likely also fail prematurely if the fault is with the charging system.

In ye olden days, the charging system was typically either working or it was not (they could be intermittent). In most vehicles, with the engine running, you'd see >14 volts on the battery. The battery would be held at 100% SOC (perhaps overcharged a bit) -- and it LIKED IT!

If the battery SOC was low and the alternator was cranking out >14V, the battery was the culprit.

It might not have been a 'smart' charging system, but it worked.

You'd think that with a BMS, the battery in the BS would be perfectly maintained.

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