Seems to be a lot of battery issues on BS models

[Major Kong]

Primarily because you've offered no data to back up your argument, which appears to be based on a few anecdotes, and seems to ignore the millions of vehicles around the world using these systems with no issues.

https://www.repairsmith.com/blog/how-long-does-a-car-battery-last/#howdo
auto/ stop-start feature
might not be enough for the full cycle charge to be an issue
but there may possibly be an effect on the number of cycles
made it a habit to select "off" mode

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[rocks]

Many vehicles around the world have stop/start without any big problem. Seems some BSs do.
If you are sitting at a traffic light, say a highway light which is longer and you have your AC, radio, headlights on with the fans or heated seats, heater etc that's a pull on the battery without the alternator. Seems some BSs can't handle it. Maybe much of that stuff is turned off when engine is off. I don't know as I don't use stop/start. It takes battery power to make those constant starts. It's a lousy feeling wondering is a dead battery on the road may happen.

 

[Mark S.]

https://www.repairsmith.com/blog/how-long-does-a-car-battery-last/#howdo
auto/ stop-start feature
might not be enough for the full cycle charge to be an issue
but there may possibly be an effect on the number of cycles
made it a habit to select "off" mode

There's no question that the auto stop/start system places greater demands on a battery, but that doesn't mean the system is "bad for the car" as some have argued. The only components on the car affected by the auto start/stop system are the starter, battery, and charging system. Designers can easily account for the increased wear on these components by using more robust components. Given the number of reported issues, Ford may have fallen short on its choice of battery, but there's no evidence the starter or charging systems are deficient and/or subject to premature failure due to use of the auto start/stop system. Nor is there evidence (that I'm aware of) showing an increase in start cycles on an engine properly designed to utilize an auto start/stop system will reduce engine longevity.

 

[Major Kong]

There's no question that the auto stop/start system places greater demands on a battery, but that doesn't mean the system is "bad for the car" as some have argued. The only components on the car affected by the auto start/stop system are the starter, battery, and charging system. Designers can easily account for the increased wear on these components by using more robust components. Given the number of reported issues, Ford may have fallen short on its choice of battery, but there's no evidence the starter or charging systems are deficient and/or subject to premature failure due to use of the auto start/stop system. Nor is there evidence (that I'm aware of) showing an increase in start cycles on an engine properly designed to utilize an auto start/stop system will reduce engine longevity.

"The only components on the car affected by the auto start/stop system are the starter, battery, and charging system. "
I'd also toss in where the starter motor engages the flywheel for wear and tear.

what I had in mind was the number of cycles a battery can expect to provide
how might this "feature" impact those cycle numbers
thread being battery related issues I'll try to stay on point
just what constitutes a cycle?
percentage of amps out amps in?

 

[Mark S.]

"The only components on the car affected by the auto start/stop system are the starter, battery, and charging system. "
I'd also toss in where the starter motor engages the flywheel for wear and tear.

what I had in mind was the number of cycles a battery can expect to provide
how might this "feature" impact those cycle numbers
thread being battery related issues I'll try to stay on point
just what constitutes a cycle?
percentage of amps out amps in?

Auto engineers try to make "improvements" transparent to end users. An example is disc brakes. They work far better, and are far easier to maintain than drum brakes, and they require no special knowledge on the part of a driver to take advantage of the improvement. I think the same effort has been put into auto start/stop systems. You know, it's funny. You can look around on the interwebs and find article after article explaining how these systems work, how their components are designed to handle the increased number of engine starts, how they are beneficial, etc., etc. I really can't find anything bad about them other than speculation from users. I can't find anything negative about them from the engineers who designed them.

To answer your questions: yes, the battery is the component that will see the biggest increase in wear and tear, and given the current state of battery technology, that will almost certainly mean replacing your battery more often, or paying for a higher quality battery. Will the flywheel incur increased wear? Probably, but the question is how much?

The overwhelming majority of wear on internal engine parts occurs when the engine is cold. The dimension of internal engine parts are different when the engine is cold, and oil drains away exposing them to higher friction until the oil pump gets fresh oil out to them, which can take longer because oil flows more slowly when cold.

When the stop/start system is activated, however, the engine is at operating temperature. Dimensions on all parts are optimum, and there hasn't been time for oil to drain away. And even if it did, the oil is hot, and will flow to all internal parts much faster. That means there's no more wear on internal parts than if the engine had been running. Further, the auto start/stop system senses crank/piston position so it knows which cylinder will fire first. That's why system operation is nearly transparent: when you step on the accelerator pedal the engine start is near instantaneous. How much increased wear on the flywheel do you think a hot start requiring 1/4 - 1/2 an engine revolution imposes?

I've never heard of an engine equipped with an auto start/stop system requiring premature flywheel replacement due to increased starter gear wear.

 

[Major Kong]

Auto engineers try to make "improvements" transparent to end users. An example is disc brakes. They work far better, and are far easier to maintain than drum brakes, and they require no special knowledge on the part of a driver to take advantage of the improvement. I think the same effort has been put into auto start/stop systems. You know, it's funny. You can look around on the interwebs and find article after article explaining how these systems work, how their components are designed to handle the increased number of engine starts, how they are beneficial, etc., etc. I really can't find anything bad about them other than speculation from users. I can't find anything negative about them from the engineers who designed them.

To answer your questions: yes, the battery is the component that will see the biggest increase in wear and tear, and given the current state of battery technology, that will almost certainly mean replacing your battery more often, or paying for a higher quality battery. Will the flywheel incur increased wear? Probably, but the question is how much?

The overwhelming majority of wear on internal engine parts occurs when the engine is cold. The dimension of internal engine parts are different when the engine is cold, and oil drains away exposing them to higher friction until the oil pump gets fresh oil out to them, which can take longer because oil flows more slowly when cold.

When the stop/start system is activated, however, the engine is at operating temperature. Dimensions on all parts are optimum, and there hasn't been time for oil to drain away. And even if it did, the oil is hot, and will flow to all internal parts much faster. That means there's no more wear on internal parts than if the engine had been running. Further, the auto start/stop system senses crank/piston position so it knows which cylinder will fire first. That's why system operation is nearly transparent: when you step on the accelerator pedal the engine start is near instantaneous. How much increased wear on the flywheel do you think a hot start requiring 1/4 - 1/2 an engine revolution imposes?

I've never heard of an engine equipped with an auto start/stop system requiring premature flywheel replacement due to increased starter gear wear.

all valid points to take into consideration
however, the measure of time to performance is rather short
no real track record to assay functional benefit other than fuel consumption
it may, just as you say be a non-issue
the flip side of that would be the non-use equals no additional wear and tear
zero aside from the off switch being pushed

 

[westcoaster818]

Primarily because you've offered no data to back up your argument, which appears to be based on a few anecdotes, and seems to ignore the millions of vehicles around the world using these systems with no issues.

Uhh its from working on cars all my life. Ask any good mechanic.

 

[Bucko]

Uhh its from working on cars all my life. Ask any good mechanic.

OK. Do you know any?

 

[sajohnson]

"The only components on the car affected by the auto start/stop system are the starter, battery, and charging system. "
I'd also toss in where the starter motor engages the flywheel for wear and tear.

what I had in mind was the number of cycles a battery can expect to provide
how might this "feature" impact those cycle numbers
thread being battery related issues I'll try to stay on point
just what constitutes a cycle?
percentage of amps out amps in?

A cycle is any discharge followed by a charge -- usually/ideally beginning and ending at a full charge (100% SOC).

How many cycles a battery can provide is dependent (in part) upon the depth of discharge:
https://discoverbattery.com/component/content/article/111-does-depth-of-discharge-affect-cycle-life

I spent too much time trying to find a chart. This one isn't exactly what I had in mind but it gives the general idea -- the greater the DOD the shorter the service life. From 2,000 down to 200, or 10:1 for the GEL.

I could not seem to find a chart for an actual automotive starting battery (let alone Motorcraft) but the concept is the same. It's best no to discharge starting batteries too deeply -- which, unfortunately, the BS can do if it sits for very long after it is turned off.

BTW -- at "Battery University" there was mention of a study of the auto start/stop systems. I can't find it now, but it said that battery capacity can be reduced significantly by many start/stop cycles, but CCA remains about the same.

Here's another chart that indicates the affect of deep discharges on service life.

 

[VirtualJMills]

Since someone mentioned owner's manual, I want to add this interesting little gem taken directly from the manual. I know some vehicles have odd requirements, but this right here is the oddest I have ever seen. Page 297 >Maintenance> Changing the 12V battery.
After battery replacement, or in some
cases after charging the battery with an
external charger, the battery management
system requires eight hours of vehicle sleep
time to relearn the battery state of charge.
During this time, your vehicle must remain
fully locked with the ignition switched off

I would think part of this relates to whether charging passed through the current shunt block or not (Coulomb counting is really the only way you can track charge/discharge of a non-rested battery), and whether the telemetry data from that shunt is tracked/recorded in engine-off, key-removed equivalent state. If charge-added isn't captured, you can only infer SoC from voltage on a properly rested battery.

OBD metrics also report current estimated SoC, as well as whether or not the battery is in slow/fast recharge cycle while idling or driving. I've noticed SoC tends to hover around 80%, which seems on gut-instinct to be a bit low for lead based chemistry (AGM or flooded-cell).

 

[stitchsport]

I drive a 2021 BS Big Bend - My battery died after 28 Months / 27,000 miles.
Jumped my car, let sit for 30 minutes, drive 1.5 hours and then wouldn't turn on again. Had to call AAA, battery read as 14%... They replaced it for ~$250

Has anyone had luck with submitting a claim /getting reimbursed from the Ford Motor Company warranty if it was replaced by a 3rd party?

 

[BLUEOVALRACER]

I drive a 2021 BS Big Bend - My battery died after 28 Months / 27,000 miles.
Jumped my car, let sit for 30 minutes, drive 1.5 hours and then wouldn't turn on again. Had to call AAA, battery read as 14%... They replaced it for ~$250

Has anyone had luck with submitting a claim /getting reimbursed from the Ford Motor Company warranty if it was replaced by a 3rd party?

You should have had Ford replace it you have a 3 year 36.000 mile Bumper to Bumper Warranty?

 

[stitchsport]

You should have had Ford replace it you have a 3 year 36.000 mile Bumper to Bumper Warranty?

Theoretically yes but unfortunately i was at a gas station at 10 pm and couldn’t wait as i had to get home / drive to work the next morning.

 

[wessermgm]

I am a Ford guy, pretty well always have been. My DD is an F150 Platinum and I am pretty active on the F15014th Gen forum. There is an explosion of battery management threads and complaints on that forum. The issues over there predate the onset of winter, much the same as over here. Perhaps the battery on the Sport is not sufficient. I do believe that Ford has done a poor job on its battery management software though. Folks with OBD links that are monitoring this stuff are showing substantive decreases in battery strength overnight due to background draws/usage, which appear to well more than Ford intended. You see this symptoms to a lesser degree on the Sport as well. Many of us have auto/start basically eliminated (mine hasn't engaged in at least 2 months), presumably because the BMS hasn't detected a healthy enough charge to activate it. Others have been sent to deep sleep mode.

Not sure what the fix is. Better battery (AGM) definitely helps. But all of those F150 batteries are AGM and they are going through worse issues than the Sport appears to be. Ford needs to get a handle on these parasitic draws. I personally carry a Noco Boost Jumper with me now. I am not getting stranded over this.

 

[Dude]

…. Ford needs to get a handle on these parasitic draws.

High parasitic draws has been my suspicion, well over 50mA on average is what I have been guessing but haven’t taken the time to measure it.

I wonder if performing a BMS Reset every other night would help the BMS keep itself updated?

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