Interesting read

[Barry S.]

The article was more about Ford's value as an investment than about vehicle quality. There's no question that many manufacturers are having quality issues currently, but Ford has issued more recalls than others. Toyota has so far avoided getting sucked in to the EV frenzy, while Ford has invested billions toward EV development. I think it's safe to say Ford's foray into the EV market has been nothing short of disastrous, and that's had far more impact on its bottom line than its quality problems.

When it comes to customer demand for EV's, what part of NO don't they understand?

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[Mighty3]

I read this somewhere but its correct for us 'joe driver/ regular person types'....'when I can pour in 400 or 500 miles of electricity into my battery in about 10 minutes I'll consider electric cars' - big issue is down time for charging and of course those creeping up purchase prices.

 

[Dude]

I read this somewhere but its correct for us 'joe driver/ regular person types'....'when I can pour in 400 or 500 miles of electricity into my battery in about 10 minutes I'll consider electric cars' - big issue is down time for charging and of course those creeping up purchase prices.

Keep an eye on Toyota 2028 EV models

 

[sajohnson]

There is no reason for the 'EV or ICE' question to be controversial. People might as well argue over banana cream pie vs coconut cream pie.

To be honest, as much as I like the Badlands, I would have bought an EV this time around, but it was my wife's turn for a new car. She wanted a "boxy SUV" and the Badlands fit the bill.

EVs definitely do not make sense for everyone -- far from it. As mentioned above, while charging has become faster, it still takes a LOT longer than filling up a gas tank. In addition, real-world range is usually below that of ICE vehicles. For one thing, most EV mfrs' recommend only using 80% to 20% SOC -- just 60% of the total capacity.

Those are the two primary complaints. The ideal EV owner can a) charge at home, and b) does not regularly take long road trips. In our case, I can easily install a Level 2 charger, and the EV would be used almost exclusively for local trips. An EV makes sense for us, but not for a lot of other people.

As a longtime 'car guy', I like the incredible performance of EVs, but that alone is not a reason to buy one if it must be charged exclusively at commercial chargers. Not only are they a time suck, they are EXPENSIVE -- often 3-4+ times residential rates. In many cases, gasoline is cheaper (per mile) than electricity from commercial chargers.

 

[BSBB4Les]

I'm 76, I can see where the future is going with regards to sustainable energy and ev transportation. To use a metaphor, we're on the first floor of a very tall building. The elevator is old and slow but we've pushed the button for the penthouse so we're committed to ride it out. At some point way beyond my lifetime that elevator will make it to the top floor. Just what that represents is anybody's guess.

 

[Dude]

There is no reason for the 'EV or ICE' question to be controversial. People might as well argue over banana cream pie vs coconut cream pie.

Some are sensing the government is shoving the pie down their throats

 

[rocks]

Some are sensing the government is shoving the pie down their throats

and failing!

 

[sajohnson]

Some are sensing the government is shoving the pie down their throats

Good line! That does seem to be the case -- in some states more than others.

People, and esp Americans, do not like being told what we can and cannot do or buy. Of course, due to an ever increasing consumption level (driven by a steadily growing population) we have seen several restrictions already: A/C units that cannot cool to as low a temp as older units; CAFE regulations; emissions regulations; low flow plumbing fixtures; waste water recycling; fridges and freezers that cannot be set as low as older ones; "Energy Star" appliances; "smart growth" -- cramming people into little boxes (apts.) near subway stations; restrictions on driving -- congestion zones and tolls, HOT/Lexus lanes, expensive parking, etc.

The switch from ICE to EV is another step. It would not hurt my feelings if ICE vehicles were available indefinitely. EVs have their problems. One is that while they do almost always have lower "cradle to grave" CO2 emissions, reaching the break-even point with an equivalent ICE vehicle usually takes a few years. It's not as if they are squeaky clean.

My sense is that EVs are being pushed too hard, but eventually, range will increase; recharging time will decrease and there will not be any need for gubmint strong-arm tactics, because most buyers will want them anyway.

There is a limited amount of oil in the ground, and CO2 aside, we need it to produce a WIDE range of products, including plastics. It makes sense to gradually, voluntarily, switch to EVs.

 

[rocks]

Good line! That does seem to be the case -- in some states more than others.

People, and esp Americans, do not like being told what we can and cannot do or buy. Of course, due to an ever increasing consumption level (driven by a steadily growing population) we have seen several restrictions already: A/C units that cannot cool to as low a temp as older units; CAFE regulations; emissions regulations; low flow plumbing fixtures; waste water recycling; fridges and freezers that cannot be set as low as older ones; "Energy Star" appliances; "smart growth" -- cramming people into little boxes (apts.) near subway stations; restrictions on driving -- congestion zones and tolls, HOT/Lexus lanes, expensive parking, etc.

The switch from ICE to EV is another step. It would not hurt my feelings if ICE vehicles were available indefinitely. EVs have their problems. One is that while they do almost always have lower "cradle to grave" CO2 emissions, reaching the break-even point with a equivalent ICE vehicle usually takes a few years. It's not as if they are squeaky clean.

My sense is that EVs are being pushed too hard, but eventually, range will increase; recharging time will decrease and there will not be any need for gubmint strong-arm tactics, because most buyers will want them anyway.

There is a limited amount of oil in the ground, and CO2 aside, we need it to produce a WIDE range of products, including plastics. It makes sense to gradually, voluntarily, switch to EVs.

Most of that depends on what political party has control.

 

[wessermgm]

Most of that depends on what political party has control.

Democrats need to stop pushing EVs and Republicans need to stop resisting them. The market will adopt EVs in time. As the infrastructure to support them grows and range/charging availability increases, more and more will make the switch.

Trying to get the automakers to stop making ICE engines within a decade is madness. The grid cannot hope to replace all of the ICE powerplants in that time, not to mention we are not really doing anything to expand the capacity of the grid to accommodate such a massive shift. There are approximately 14 million new ICE vehicles sold every year and 220 million running in the US currently. Each and every one of those vehicles is a power generator. Each and every EV is a power consumer. We cannot - on a temporal dime - remove this much power generation and convert into power consumption. The grid would collapse.

Now the GOP needs to stop blocking efforts to expand power generation and transmission to get the grid ready. In Texas for instance, we continue to deal with power shortages simply due to the increase in population. The grid is insufficient as is, yet no major thrust is being made to expand generation. We need an across the board approach to creating this new electrical age. Clean energy plays a role, but nuclear and gas plants will be needed as well.

I could see the majority of US auto sales being EVs by 2045 if this is allowed organically. In terms of the natural evolution of the auto industry. I think we are in the hybrid age. If the government wants to incentivize anything - focus there.

 

[NoOneHereYet]

Democrats need to stop pushing EVs and Republicans need to stop resisting them. The market will adopt EVs in time. As the infrastructure to support them grows and range/charging availability increases, more and more will make the switch.

Trying to get the automakers to stop making ICE engines within a decade is madness. The grid cannot hope to replace all of the ICE powerplants in that time, not to mention we are not really doing anything to expand the capacity of the grid to accommodate such a massive shift. There are approximately 14 million new ICE vehicles sold every year and 220 million running in the US currently. Each and every one of those vehicles is a power generator. Each and every EV is a power consumer. We cannot - on a temporal dime - remove this much power generation and convert into power consumption. The grid would collapse.

Now the GOP needs to stop blocking efforts to expand power generation and transmission to get the grid ready. In Texas for instance, we continue to deal with power shortages simply due to the increase in population. The grid is insufficient as is, yet no major thrust is being made to expand generation. We need an across the board approach to creating this new electrical age. Clean energy plays a role, but nuclear and gas plants will be needed as well.

I could see the majority of US auto sales being EVs by 2045 if this is allowed organically. In terms of the natural evolution of the auto industry. I think we are in the hybrid age. If the government wants to incentivize anything - focus there.

I live in the mountains of Idaho, the weather makes EV's useless as soon as it drops below freezing, so half the year, not to mention the multiple EV's and hybrids I have had to tow down the mountain because of water crossings or lack of power for charging during a snow storm. EV's are grocery getters meant for cities and parking garages, They have been tried numerous times over the past 100 years and keep failing because of those exact scenarios. Not to mention how useless they are for towing anything more than 50 miles one way. There is 0% chance you could convince me or anyone that I know that an EV is viable for daily use.

 

[NoOneHereYet]

I disagree that EVs are a fad and once you try it you never want it again.

Yes there are a few who try an EV and they don’t make sense but for the vast majority EVs are great. But you need to be able to charge at home for it to make sense. When asked how long does it take to charge my answer is 2 seconds. I just plug it in at home and it has a full tank every morning. For road trips the Tesla SuperCharge network is great.

I ”tried” my first EV 10 years ago with a 80 mile range Nissan Leaf as a local commuter car. We currently own 2 Tesla Model Ys and a Ford Lightning. I‘LL NEVER GO BACK TO ICE unless I need to tow heavy. For that we own a Ford F+450 which is only used to tow our 5th wheel.

As far as cold country and EVs go, look at Norway. Over 80% of new cars sold in Norway last year are electric. Yes range is reduced 20% in the cold.

It’s become too political. I have 2 friends who wear their red hats proudly EXCEPT when they are driving their EVs. ??

Dont knock it until you try it.

I’m a member here because I helped my adult daughter buy a Bronco Sport a few months ago.

Move to the mountains where it is below freezing nearly half the year or go get yourself 100+ acres of land and tell me how long that EV works for you. City cars are not meant for rural living or farm use. Not a viable option for people like me and thus, they will fail because no one wants to waste money on things they can't use.

 

[Flyct]

Move to the mountains where it is below freezing nearly half the year or go get yourself 100+ acres of land and tell me how long that EV works for you. City cars are not meant for rural living or farm use. Not a viable option for people like me and thus, they will fail because no one wants to waste money on things they can't use.

No thank you. Moving to the beautifull mountains of Idaho, where it is below freezing nearly half the year, is not for the vast majority of people, including me.

Less than 2 million people live in Idaho. The vast majority of those people don’t live in the mountains but live in the southern portion in the Snake River Plain.

There are only 2,300 registered EVs in Idaho. Oregon and Colorado each have 10 times that number of registered EVs. You proved my point that EVs don’t make sense for a few but still make sense for the vast majority of the US population.

 

[Bronclahoma]

I worked in the auto industry for 35 years and never liked auto stocks. I was forced to own some from time to time in SSPs, but as soon as I earned their match, I rolled them over to an IRA I managed and sold them. Never owned an airline stock either.

I'm suprised some of the institutional investors don't have a lynch mob after Farley. One thing I learned working for a large centralized corp is that you can delegate authority, but not responsibility. Farley is responsible for losing billions of shareholders dollars. He should be fired. No excuses. He also bears some cullpibility for Ford dealer's poor service because he tolerates it. Ford needs a culture change and that can only come from the top.

 

[hellb0y]

I wouldn't say they've issued more recalls, would say they have issued a lot of recalls that are engine/model specific but not across all engine/models. Like the BS for example, the 2.0 has had the 1 recall for battery update, the 1.5 is on what 12 recalls so far? On the EV matter absolutely agree. The entire EV market is a fad being mandated by government that once you try it you never want it again. Particularly if you live in an area that drops below freezing. I honestly feel the hybrid truck trend will also go the wayside once people realize what you lose in the long run and the costs of repair and batteries. As for other manufactures, I was at one point a huge Toyota guy, Toyota has not been Toyota in my opinion since 2020. Their build quality has collapsed, and their tech is just now starting to catch up to everyone else and to call it buggy and cumbersome would be an understatement.

the 2.0 has been recalled almost as many times as the 1.5, including for driveshaft issues….so yeah ???

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