Disgusted by Price Increases

Jmuns

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People do know that Ford had a net loss of 2 billion last year correct?

Ford Bronco Sport Disgusted by Price Increases 375AD997-FAC8-4221-8D7F-621B68E01920
Exactly. Anyone who thinks Ford is trying to not produce cars to make a small increase in profits on fewer vehicles is crazy. That idea only makes sense if Ford was having problems selling cars they produced, which they aren’t. The line is out the door for some of their vehicles.
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Idahobro

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People do know that Ford had a net loss of 2 billion last year correct?

Ford Bronco Sport Disgusted by Price Increases 375AD997-FAC8-4221-8D7F-621B68E01920
Maybe I am misunderstanding your post, if so my apologies. It appears you are suggesting that Ford vehicle operations lost $2bb last year so they couldn't possibly want to keep a supply/demand imbalance. Is that your premise? If not, my apologies. If it is your premise, I believe it to be incorrect. See the following:


Ford wrote down $12bb+ in 2022. Their vehicle operations were printing money on low volume while being overly FAT with people, processes and procurement! That is why Farley said there is another $2bb out there.

"Ford’s performance was also hurt by a $600 million loss stemming from its joint ventures in China and about $12 billion in special expenses, including those related to Argo and Rivian, which has lost much of its value since it listed on the stock exchange in November 2021.

Excluding the special expenses, interest and taxes, Ford made a $10.4 billion profit last year, it said, roughly as much as in 2021. (bold, italics,underline added for emphasis)"
 

Idahobro

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Exactly. Anyone who thinks Ford is trying to not produce cars to make a small increase in profits on fewer vehicles is crazy. That idea only makes sense if Ford was having problems selling cars they produced, which they aren’t. The line is out the door for some of their vehicles.
please see post 32. Ford did not lose money on their vehicle operations. What is crazy is that you didn't read why Ford posted a $2bb loss in 2022 before posting. Hint: it wasn't on vehicle operations. The $2bb Farley referred to was what he said was "left on the table" due to piss poor operational efficiencies.

I am not sure how people are missing this and claiming that Ford is not making money selling vehicles? Puzzling.
 

Jmuns

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please see post 32. Ford did not lose money on their vehicle operations. What is crazy is that you didn't read why Ford posted a $2bb loss in 2022 before posting. Hint: it wasn't on vehicle operations. The $2bb Farley referred to was what he said was "left on the table" due to piss poor operational efficiencies.

I am not sure how people are missing this and claiming that Ford is not making money selling vehicles? Puzzling.
I understand where they lost the money from. What I’m not sure you understand is that they are offering people rebates and more money off already reduced price protection from one to two years ago to take a vehicle now that they can produce. Look at the Bronco which is one vehicle they can’t produce enough of. They have people with 2021 price protection that they are offering an additional $2500 rebate to if they remove constraints or take lower trims or can use that rebate to purchase another Ford. That cuts into profit a ton. So to think they are purposefully offering rebates and selling cars way below current MSRP makes no sense. If they could produce those Broncos now they would make an additional $2500 by not offering rebates to order holders and just giving them the Bronco they ordered.

On top of that the vehicles they can’t produce enough of are in new segments for them. They want market share in those categories. They wouldn’t limit production and give Jeep free reign to keep market share in that category as an example.
 

Escape2Bronco

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Maybe I am misunderstanding your post, if so my apologies. It appears you are suggesting that Ford vehicle operations lost $2bb last year so they couldn't possibly want to keep a supply/demand imbalance. Is that your premise? If not, my apologies. If it is your premise, I believe it to be incorrect. See the following:


Ford wrote down $12bb+ in 2022. Their vehicle operations were printing money on low volume while being overly FAT with people, processes and procurement! That is why Farley said there is another $2bb out there.

"Ford’s performance was also hurt by a $600 million loss stemming from its joint ventures in China and about $12 billion in special expenses, including those related to Argo and Rivian, which has lost much of its value since it listed on the stock exchange in November 2021.

Excluding the special expenses, interest and taxes, Ford made a $10.4 billion profit last year, it said, roughly as much as in 2021. (bold, italics,underline added for emphasis)"
Nope, you were not misinterpreting my post. But, I’m sure you don’t consider your profit before Excluding the special expenses, interest and taxes? when you have 12B in special expenses?

In anycase, I get nobody likes corporate accounting, but there is also no evidence that manufacturers are purposely decreasing supply to increase pricing. I happen to work for a very large corporation and can first hand attest to the supply constraints being real and not just something fabricated by Ford to increase pricing.
 


Idahobro

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I understand where they lost the money from. What I’m not sure you understand is that they are offering people rebates and more money off already reduced price protection from one to two years ago to take a vehicle now that they can produce. Look at the Bronco which is one vehicle they can’t produce enough of. They have people with 2021 price protection that they are offering an additional $2500 rebate to if they remove constraints or take lower trims or can use that rebate to purchase another Ford. That cuts into profit a ton. So to think they are purposefully offering rebates and selling cars way below current MSRP makes no sense. If they could produce those Broncos now they would make an additional $2500 by not offering rebates to order holders and just giving them the Bronco they ordered.

On top of that the vehicles they can’t produce enough of are in new segments for them. They want market share in those categories. They wouldn’t limit production and give Jeep free reign to keep market share in that category as an example.
You are conflating two different issues, 1) poorly run operations with 2) controlled imbalance of supply/demand. For anyone that can afford a $40k vehicle, I shouldn't have to explain why you are wrong, but sadly, it's the world we live in.

Not having commodities to produce a certain configuration is a result of supplier mismanagement. If F did have all the commodities they needed, that does not prevent them from managing to a supply/demand outcome most favorable to their bottom line, it simply means those that they produce are of configurations different from what they can manage today.

The fact that Ford mucked up their supply chain and must offer incentives to change configurations is really more a representation of poor management and optics. In reality, Ford is hoping most of those people self select to a different brand which should be evident by the fact that many people have been waiting forever, while folks that recently ordered are driving their new car.

Case in point. I ordered a Ford Maverick Hybrid Sept. 2022. There were thousands of people who ordered one earlier than I did, some by a year, and still didn't have it. I got mine in Jan of 2023. Still people who ordered the exact same vehicle (and have price protection and Ford Cash) still didn't have theirs. Message: please go away and buy something else so we don't have to pay these incentives.

Giving someone $2500 while increasing your prices for everyone you produce after that point by $4000 seems to support what I am saying more than what you are saying. Just saying...

Sorry to be so direct with you.
 

Idahobro

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Nope, you were not misinterpreting my post. But, I’m sure you don’t consider your profit before Excluding the special expenses, interest and taxes? when you have 12B in special expenses?

In anycase, I get nobody likes corporate accounting, but there is also no evidence that manufacturers are purposely decreasing supply to increase pricing. I happen to work for a very large corporation and can first hand attest to the supply constraints being real and not just something fabricated by Ford to increase pricing.
I totally understand that you have to defend you post, but you know as well as I do that the $12bb+ special expenses were not production volume dependent. so they could have produced a million more vehicles and that $12bb+ write down would have still been $12bb+.

This has been an enjoyable discussion for sure. When people stop having point/counterpoint discussions, they just get dumb and die. Better to have a back and forth and be wrong than to not use your brain at all.

thanks for the Sunday mental exercise. We'll agree to disagree. Same as well @Jmuns. Cheers.
 

Escape2Bronco

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I totally understand that you have to defend you post, but you know as well as I do that the $12bb+ special expenses were not production volume dependent. so they could have produced a million more vehicles and that $12bb+ write down would have still been $12bb+.

This has been an enjoyable discussion for sure. When people stop having point/counterpoint discussions, they just get dumb and die. Better to have a back and forth and be wrong than to not use your brain at all.

thanks for the Sunday mental exercise. We'll agree to disagree. Same as well @Jmuns. Cheers.
Agreed! Cheers to you too! No point arguing on the internet on a Sunday afternoon.
 

Jmuns

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You are conflating two different issues, 1) poorly run operations with 2) controlled imbalance of supply/demand. For anyone that can afford a $40k vehicle, I shouldn't have to explain why you are wrong, but sadly, it's the world we live in.

Not having commodities to produce a certain configuration is a result of supplier mismanagement. If F did have all the commodities they needed, that does not prevent them from managing to a supply/demand outcome most favorable to their bottom line, it simply means those that they produce are of configurations different from what they can manage today.

The fact that Ford mucked up their supply chain and must offer incentives to change configurations is really more a representation of poor management and optics. In reality, Ford is hoping most of those people self select to a different brand which should be evident by the fact that many people have been waiting forever, while folks that recently ordered are driving their new car.

Case in point. I ordered a Ford Maverick Hybrid Sept. 2022. There were thousands of people who ordered one earlier than I did, some by a year, and still didn't have it. I got mine in Jan of 2023. Still people who ordered the exact same vehicle (and have price protection and Ford Cash) still didn't have theirs. Message: please go away and buy something else so we don't have to pay these incentives.

Giving someone $2500 while increasing your prices for everyone you produce after that point by $4000 seems to support what I am saying more than what you are saying. Just saying...

Sorry to be so direct with you.
I agree with most of what you said. Ford unfortunately places orders into the queue based on dealer allocations, not first in first out. Often times if you have the wrong dealer with no allocations it’s first in last out.

Ford is their own worst enemy.
 
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SgtT11B

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I ordered my 2022 BS BL before the first price increase. If I wasn't price protected by the order I wouldn't have bought and just bought out my 2020 Escape Titanium. The price jump is almost $4500 from my 2022 order.
 


Mark S.

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I ordered my 2022 BS BL before the first price increase. If I wasn't price protected by the order I wouldn't have bought and just bought out my 2020 Escape Titanium. The price jump is almost $4500 from my 2022 order.
That's because Ford doubled-down on the jelly bean look with the Escape so it looks like every other CUV out there. In other words, no demand= no big price jump. The Bronco Sport, on the other hand, remains highly popular. In other words, high demand=big price jump.
 

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As someone who has worked for large manufacturer in the agriculture and construction industry, manufacturers trip over $100 to pick up a penny. You try to be the most cost effective to build, even if it means raising prices. I will say that I paid under MSRP for my BS this year, and there weren't any incentives. Part of it is Ford's need to crack down on mark ups, which they say they have. The only way to effectively do that is eliminate the dealer, which some states have laws against.
 

Winds of Change

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Yep, same deal. If we bought our house today putting 20% down, our payment would be over $16k a month. This shit just does not compute. I feel like pimppot from Conan Obrien. "Does not compute, does not compute".

Ford Bronco Sport Disgusted by Price Increases 1679178715121
16 thousand dollars a month?
 

SgtT11B

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That's because Ford doubled-down on the jelly bean look with the Escape so it looks like every other CUV out there. In other words, no demand= no big price jump. The Bronco Sport, on the other hand, remains highly popular. In other words, high demand=big price jump.

Sorry Mark, I don't know what this has to do with what I posted. I was just saying I was protected by the price increase when I ordered. Never mentioned demand vs. the Ford Escape.
 

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My wife and I just bought an outer banks edition this past weekend. We had our "list" of option "wants", and did not find one that had everything. So we asked the salesperson to see if they could locate one, even though my wife did this from home with a 100 mile range. He said thare was not one in the state of Florida. We asked if we could order one. He smiled and said it would be 12 to 15 weeks, and they would not lock down a price, as these Bronco Sports are changing monthly. We ended up buying one on the lot, without the mood roof my wife wanted.
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