5 star tuning 1.5L dyno sheet

[charosenz]

The reason they aren't sharing the data is because they don't want to scare away potential customers. The powertrain control module (PCM) is really just a software program that manages engine functions. It has full control over fuel injection, ignition timing, turbo boost, wastegate, bypass valve, etc. It uses input from the many sensors—including the throttle pedal position—to determine exactly how much fuel to inject, how much boost, where to set timing, etc. The software sets safety limits on all of these factors based on sensor indications. If temps are too high, cut power output; if the knock sensor trips cut power output; etc. Thus, the way to get more power is obvious: reduce and/or eliminate the safety limits built in to the engine control software. This is the primary reason vendors who sell these software power upgrades require the use of 91 octane or higher fuel. They know the engine will not long survive the many detonation events sure to occur using their software.

Just to clarify, that quote is not mine it is Brady from 5 Star. I do agree that premium fuel a must at these levels of boost.

I also think it is too early to tell if 20+ psi is "too much" for the BS. Many Hondas do that all day long, time will tell for this engine.

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[Mark S.]

They have been doing this a long time so they know what is safe and manufacturers are crazy conservative on their tunes.

I owned an EcoBoost Mustang before trading it for the Badlands. There was a running poll over at one of the EcoBoost Mustang forums tracking owners who had suffered blown engines. The last time I looked at it there were some 40 catastrophic failures. Of the 40, only 2 were not using modified software.

Ford has a vested interest in producing engines that produce best power in class, and it's engine testing regimen includes facilities around the globe and literally millions of test hours, so it has the data to back up the safety limits it imposes. Modified software meant to increase power output is going to compromise engine durability and longevity. How much? Who knows? Not even the vendors who sell the software know. If you only plan to keep the vehicle for a few years then sell it the odds are you'll probably be fine, you'll just pass on a compromised engine to the next owner. If your goal is to get as many miles out of your investment as possible then you're playing Russian Roulette with a tune.

Something I always recommended to folks interested in a used EcoBoost Mustang: Take it to a dealership for a pre-purchase inspection, including a look at the PCM software. I don't believe the computer can tell if the software has ever been modified, but it CAN tell you the number of engine cycles (start/stop) since the last PCM reset. If the car has 50K miles on it without a commensurate number of cycles then avoid it.

 

[Osco]

So many reasons I’ll stick to buying new.
I think about it this way,
If Ford could sell the 1.5L with just 25 HP more and just 5% more torque and have a reliable long lasting engine they would do so.
It would be stupid not to. All the other similar engines from other manufacturers would do it and out class them.
I believe Ford pushes the limits as far as they dare.
Look at the 2.0L 250 Hp and great torque.
You want more power ? Get a bigger engine.

 

[WinTech]

I owned an EcoBoost Mustang before trading it for the Badlands. There was a running poll over at one of the EcoBoost Mustang forums tracking owners who had suffered blown engines. The last time I looked at it there were some 40 catastrophic failures. Of the 40, only 2 were not using modified software.

Ford has a vested interest in producing engines that produce best power in class, and it's engine testing regimen includes facilities around the globe and literally millions of test hours, so it has the data to back up the safety limits it imposes. Modified software meant to increase power output is going to compromise engine durability and longevity. How much? Who knows? Not even the vendors who sell the software know. If you only plan to keep the vehicle for a few years then sell it the odds are you'll probably be fine, you'll just pass on a compromised engine to the next owner. If your goal is to get as many miles out of your investment as possible then you're playing Russian Roulette with a tune.

Something I always recommended to folks interested in a used EcoBoost Mustang: Take it to a dealership for a pre-purchase inspection, including a look at the PCM software. I don't believe the computer can tell if the software has ever been modified, but it CAN tell you the number of engine cycles (start/stop) since the last PCM reset. If the car has 50K miles on it without a commensurate number of cycles then avoid it.

The way I look at it is I have some extra power when I need it. I don't flog it or floor it all the time. A lot of the Mustang guys do mods other than the tunes and probably push things way harder than anyone driving a Bronco Sport would. Ford themselves sell a tune for the Ecoboost Mustang that is +35hp and +76tq. If the engine can handle that why don't they just sell it with that tune from the factory?

 

[WinTech]

So many reasons I’ll stick to buying new.
I think about it this way,
If Ford could sell the 1.5L with just 25 HP more and just 5% more torque and have a reliable long lasting engine they would do so.
It would be stupid not to. All the other similar engines from other manufacturers would do it and out class them.
I believe Ford pushes the limits as far as they dare.
Look at the 2.0L 250 Hp and great torque.
You want more power ? Get a bigger engine.

It's not just about peformance from the factory it's likely about efficiency too. If that tune results in poorer fuel economy, why would they do that? I'm sure there's way more than we know that goes into the factory tune but I am sure it is a balance of having enough horsepower to move the vehicle around along with the best fuel economy at a given power level.

 

[dakman]

Those 2.0 blocks are good to 425 hp before exploding. There's a little room to improve performance

 

[Mark S.]

Ford themselves sell a tune for the Ecoboost Mustang that is +35hp and +76tq. If the engine can handle that why don't they just sell it with that tune from the factory?

Ford Motor Company (FMC) doesn't sell the tune, Ford Performance (FP) does. According to the warranty document you get with an FP tune, FMC considers the FP tune to be aftermarket, the use of which--according to the new vehicle limited warranty (NVLW) document you get with your car--voids your NVLW for any problems related to use of the tune. The warranty you get from Ford Performance is for the first 3y/36k from date your NVLW started (not date of install), and after that you're on your own.

Some have claimed they were able to get warranty support from their local dealership for engine problems related to use of an FP tune after the FP warranty expired, but based on a plain-language reading of the documents, FMC is under no obligation to fix engine damage caused by use of a tune, even one that comes from Ford Performance. I asked my local dealership this very question as I was considering installing an FP tune on my Mustang. This is dealership that specializes in selling and installing Ford Performance parts. The service manager I spoke with on the phone said they would absolutely repair any engine damage caused by the FP tune as long as it occurred prior to expiration of my NVLW (5yr/60k). I sent an email to get confirmation--I wanted something in writing--and I never got a response.

BTW, several of the cars that experienced catastrophic failures in that poll were running FP tunes. Again, use a tune if you think you need the extra power, just be cognizant that what you are doing is not good for the long-term health of your engine.

 

[Mark S.]

Those 2.0 blocks are good to 425 hp before exploding. There's a little room to improve performance

You might be able to get 400+ hp, but you won't get it for long with OEM internals. There is only a single OEM manufacturer selling a production 4 cyl that makes more than 400 hp--it's not a very easy engineering feat to manufacturer an engine with such high specific output that is reliable enough to warrant.

 

[Winds of Change]

But they have no clue if the engine service life will be shorter or by how much.
It reminds me of back in the day, boring out an engine, installing bigger pistons had a limit, a fine line.
Gains on this tiny 1.5L like we see with this tune are similar in ratio to the very edge of the gains back in the day.
When engine life would be shortened greatly. Back then Replacing an over bored blown V-8 was not that expensive.
You ruin one of these 1.5L’s and your out $6 grand or more.

Amen to that. How much pressure do you want to cram into these motors? I want my motor to last as long as possible. Whats next as LS swap lmao.

 

[dakman]

You might be able to get 400+ hp, but you won't get it for long with OEM internals. There is only a single OEM manufacturer selling a production 4 cyl that makes more than 400 hp--it's not a very easy engineering feat to manufacturer an engine with such high specific output that is reliable enough to warrant.

Ya, I only meant my comment to reference a small bump in power for these motors(20-40hp). I'm looking for better drivability and very possibly better gas mileage which I got with my ST if you kept your foot out of it. You'll need a BT and supporting parts to break 300 hp, shortly after that you need fuel and if I was shooting for over 380hp time for a rebuild.

I would take my BB with the 2.0 without the BL 4wheel system if you could get them that way. I do like my cg top in the hot weather I live in and stays clean looking. I'll be contacting 5 Star before long, I'm over 17k miles already with no problems.

 

[SgtT11B]

I owned an EcoBoost Mustang before trading it for the Badlands. There was a running poll over at one of the EcoBoost Mustang forums tracking owners who had suffered blown engines. The last time I looked at it there were some 40 catastrophic failures. Of the 40, only 2 were not using modified software.

Ford has a vested interest in producing engines that produce best power in class, and it's engine testing regimen includes facilities around the globe and literally millions of test hours, so it has the data to back up the safety limits it imposes. Modified software meant to increase power output is going to compromise engine durability and longevity. How much? Who knows? Not even the vendors who sell the software know. If you only plan to keep the vehicle for a few years then sell it the odds are you'll probably be fine, you'll just pass on a compromised engine to the next owner. If your goal is to get as many miles out of your investment as possible then you're playing Russian Roulette with a tune.

Something I always recommended to folks interested in a used EcoBoost Mustang: Take it to a dealership for a pre-purchase inspection, including a look at the PCM software. I don't believe the computer can tell if the software has ever been modified, but it CAN tell you the number of engine cycles (start/stop) since the last PCM reset. If the car has 50K miles on it without a commensurate number of cycles then avoid it.

I agree with this 100%, the only tune I would get for any ecoboost vehicle would be a Ford Performance. Yes Ford Performance is an aftermarket company, but they use the same engineers and parameters that Ford uses in their OEM. That's why the Ford Performance tunes aren't as aggressive and the numbers are lower. Its because they are offering not only a CARB EO#, but a 3yr. 36kmile warranty from Ford Performance as long as the tune was installed by a Ford Dealership, or an ASE mechanic.

 

[Mark S.]

I agree with this 100%, the only tune I would get for any ecoboost vehicle would be a Ford Performance. Yes Ford Performance is an aftermarket company, but they use the same engineers and parameters that Ford uses in their OEM. That's why the Ford Performance tunes aren't as aggressive and the numbers are lower. Its because they are offering not only a CARB EO#, but a 3yr. 36kmile warranty from Ford Performance as long as the tune was installed by a Ford Dealership, or an ASE mechanic.

I read an interview with Dave Pericak, the lead engineer for the S550 Mustang. The topic of calibrations--that's what Ford Performance calls a tune--came up. He claimed that EcoBoost engines running the Ford Performance tune were tested alongside stock engines for portions of the torture testing Ford performs on all new engine designs. According to Pericak, the 2.3L EcoBoost engines running the FP tune exhibited no significant increase in wear after 60K miles (or the equivalent of 60K, I can't remember for sure), which is the only reason FP offers a warranty. I'm not surprised about this.

I don't believe any of the catastrophic failures posted about over at the Mustang forum were attributable to worn out engines. I believe they were directly related to the relaxed safety protocols inherent in software mods to increase power output. Many believe "ecobooms" (the nickname for EcoBoost engine failures) were related to malfunctioning fuel pressure sensor, although it's very hard to pinpoint a direct cause when the engine is spread out over the street. At least one vendor tracked EcoBoost failures that occurred when using their software to this sensor, claiming that false readings caused the PCM to set the mixture too lean. They said they could reproduce the failure mode and sensor readings. I don't doubt them. The vendor also pointed out differences between the OEM sensor and the Motorcraft replacement, suggesting this was evidence that Ford had installed inferior sensors at the factory. This led to many, many EcoBoost Mustang folks running tunes (and some not running tunes) replacing their sensors prophylactically. The problem with this logic is twofold. First, you haven't eliminated the potential for a catastrophic engine failure by replacing a sensor. You're still running the same software who's relaxed safety protocols allowed a simple sensor malfunction to cascade to a blown engine. Second, the claims that Ford was using inferior sensors came after Ford had been using them for 3+ years. As far as I know, it is STILL installing the same sensors at the factory. We probably have the same sensor installed in our engines--I haven't checked yet. It's my personal belief that the safeguards designed in the stock PCM software will protect the engine in the event of sensor anomalies like this. With a tune the margins for error get very thin indeed; even minor issues (faulty spark plug, bad sensor data, bad batch of gas, etc.) hold the potential for disaster.

That said, of all the tunes out there, the Ford Performance tune offers the least likelihood of destroying your engine. But I don't believe I'll use one, at least not now. Maybe after my warranty expires I might, but I paid too much for that warranty to jeopardize it for such a mild performance increase.

BTW, Pericak eventually left his position at Ford Motor Company to run Ford Performance.

 

[ohiooutdoors]

So many reasons I’ll stick to buying new.
I think about it this way,
If Ford could sell the 1.5L with just 25 HP more and just 5% more torque and have a reliable long lasting engine they would do so.
It would be stupid not to. All the other similar engines from other manufacturers would do it and out class them.
I believe Ford pushes the limits as far as they dare.
Look at the 2.0L 250 Hp and great torque.
You want more power ? Get a bigger engine.

Manufacturers typically do this for a few reasons and reliability isn't always the reason. I sold cars for a few manufacturers and one common reason is the powertrain options available. If you could buy the big bend and only lack x amount of power behind the badlands why would you buy the badlands?

Another reason could simply be EPA regulations and fuel efficiency. They are doing their best to make sure that they are well in the lines of epa standards and fuel efficiency especially after VW had their run-ins with the EPA.

Fuel availability is also a common reason they are down tuned. If the car requires 93 octane to reduce knock for the increased power output but only so many countries and states offer 93 they are limiting their market share.

That being said I am not familiar with ford but when I worked at VW we offered APR tunes and stage packages from the dealership and honored the factory warranty mainly because a lot of manufactures down tune their cars and the upgraded tunes are fairly safe. Companies like 5 star, APR and other providers do not want the attention of engine failures especially with the latest drama that had happened at SEMA a couple years back involving the EPA.

If you look up the 1.5 as well as other engines you will find that there are different horsepower outputs with the same engine based on platform and country.

 

[69cuda340s]

Typically manufacturers will de-tune ECU calibrations to account for bad fuel, fuel pumps that can weaken over time, and general production tolerances. Then they also de-tune to reduce drive train failures. So usually that leaves a ton of room for after market tunes to add a lot of power especially turbo engines.

I know hanging around F150 forums dealers are able to tell if the vehicle has ever had a tune if they know what to look for. Ford sent memo to dealers to flag F150s for tunes and other mods such as intakes exhaust ect and void warranties if found. Some dealers will do everything they can to void warrantees others are very forgiving and reasonable. Bottom line put a tune on and engine blows up good chance you are gonna pay and get a voided warranty which stays in Ford system forever.

 

[69cuda340s]

Other thing note worthy is 1.5 has both port and direct injection. So a tune can add more boost and have port injectors add more fuel until the mechanical direct injection pump increases pressure with RPM. 2.0 is direct injection only and a custom tune has to be careful not to be too aggressive at lower rpms where mechanical fuel pump not able to keep up and cause lean condition. 5 Star has extensive experience with those issues. So with the 2.0 direct injection watch out cause aggressive tunes at low rpm lean spot engine goes boom. Aftermarket tunes vary greatly by vendors.

Then there are custom tunes by well known gurus where you drive around log data, send to them, they send tune back and repeat till its dialed in. A lot of GT500 guys do that.

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