12 volt battery charge state detection recall coming out.

[Dude]

…The one thing I can think of is that my key is stored on the opposite side of the house from the garage. I’m just wondering if that could be a contributing factor?

from what I’ve read it is unlikely to be the keyfob. More likely is during the time the vehicle is idle, it wakes up for various reasons (you might not see any visible evidence). But the keyfob plays some role because owners can walk by the vehicle with keyfob in their pocket and it’s a very visible wakeup. Other owners state the keyfob can be no where near the vehicle and the vehicle visibly wakes up. That’s happened to me too.

But the silent wake up is more likely the cause of significant drain day after day (night after night for most people). It’ll scan WiFi for software updates (if enabled for that), download software as needed and there are several other reasons for the silent wake up in articles I’ve read. If the WiFi is weak, that causes added power to be used by the vehicle

I do have automatic software updates disabled.

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[RushMan]

Excuse my obtuseness, but what is "SOC"? And probably more importantly, WHERE exactly are you checking this?

State of Charge. It is not a fraction of total voltage and not linear with voltage.
https://www.batteryskills.com/battery-state-of-charge-understanding-the-basics/
SOC can be measured indirectly using voltage as an estimate of SOC. There are tables of voltage vs SOC for various types of batteries.
I am using an OBDII dongle and Torque Pro which has an add-on tool to provide a SOC measurement.

 

[Dude]

Excuse my obtuseness, but what is "SOC"? And probably more importantly, WHERE exactly are you checking this?

Important Battery Factors:
State of Health (SOH)
State of Charge (SOC)
Voltage

Battery State of Health report from Dealer
https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/battery-state-of-health-report-from-dealer.10826/

SOH is determined by an external tester (Midtronics GR-1) based on internal capacitance of the battery. SOH > 50% is reported as "Good".
Midtronics GR-1 Battery Management Center

From:
https://www.monolithicpower.com/en/the-importance-of-state-of-charge-and-state-of-health-in-battery-management-systems#:~:text=The State of Health provides,its initial capacity at purchase

SOH (aka battery life) provides information on the battery's general health while the SOC indicates how much charge is still in the battery. SOH offers useful details regarding the battery's life expectancy and potential replacement dates.

SOH decreases as the number of charge and discharge cycles rises.

We don’t know the Bronco Sport Battery Management System (BMS) algorithm for calculating SOH but it might be calculated based on elements like the quantity of charge/discharge cycles the battery has seen, battery age, and history of temperature that the battery was subjected to.

Note: Some battery testers calculate SOH as a percentage by measuring the usable Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) then dividing by the battery’s rated CCA (700 for Bronco Sport OEM batteries).

SOC: defined as the ratio of the available capacity Q(t) and the maximum possible charge that can be stored in a battery, i.e., the nominal capacity Qn. A fully charged battery has SOC of 1 (100%) while a fully discharged battery has an SOC of 0 (0%).”

SOC: calculated as the battery's current capacity as a proportion of its maximum (rated) capacity.

SOC: normally calculated by the BMS using the battery voltage and the current flowing into and out of the battery.

 

[Dude]

Related information:

https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/2021-ford-bronco-sport-issue-spurs-nhtsa-investigation-battery-failures.10562/

 

[gatornek]

State of Charge. It is not a fraction of total voltage and not linear with voltage.
https://www.batteryskills.com/battery-state-of-charge-understanding-the-basics/
SOC can be measured indirectly using voltage as an estimate of SOC. There are tables of voltage vs SOC for various types of batteries.
I am using an OBDII dongle and Torque Pro which has an add-on tool to provide a SOC measurement.

Im using OBDFusion. Let me see if I can find that PID. Thank you!!


EDIT: Read a little bit deeper. No such PID on my app. I guess you need a specific tool that is able to reference the battery like you had noted.

 

[rocks]

More than 450K vehicles.

Ford recalling more than 450,000 vehicles due to potential loss of drive power | CNN Business

 

[Paesano]

So our battery died in less than two years with no warning I am aware of but it is my wife's vehicle.
It is mainly a to and from work with few long distance drives, so discharging the battery and not resupplying the used charge is probably what killed ours. What got me was the battery did seem to take a full charge with an charger, but I guess the damage was done by then and it would not start after that trickle charge

 

[Mark S.]

There's a lot of speculation here regarding battery quality; all we know for sure is what's published in the linked report. There are a number of different ways to measure battery state of charge (SOC). We don't know what method the car's battery management system (BMS) is using, but presumably it is not accurate to the point that it will allow the auto start/stop system to shut down the engine even if there isn't enough battery charge to restart it. That is the focus of this recall; to fix the software to avoid this issue.

There are clues in the report that suggest the BMS and BCM software communicate to change alternator output. On page five you can read the following:

The update BCM calibrations M1PT-14F390-ACG (Bronco Sport), NZ6T-14F390-ADD (Maverick Gas), NZ6T-14F390-BDB (Maverick HEV) will provide improved detection of 12V battery SOC during drive cycles, inhbit auto stop/start in the event of a low SOC, and provide notification to the driver if the battery is degraded. The updated PCM calibrations M1PA-12A650-UE (MY21), N1PA-12A650-AE (MY22), P1PA-12A650-AF (MY23), R1PA-12A650-AD (MY24) will increase the alternator output threshold to maintain vehicle operation if a low 12V battery SOC is detected during a drive cycle.

This implies that the integrated system software is not providing enough alternator output to recharge the vehicle battery while driving, and this corresponds with owner reports here on the forum. It also corresponds with reports from owners whose battery problems disappear as long as they keep their battery on a maintenance charger. If this is the case, it's very likely there is nothing whatsoever wrong with the OE batteries, they simply aren't getting properly recharged while driving.

 

[rocks]

There's a lot of speculation here regarding battery quality; all we know for sure is what's published in the linked report. There are a number of different ways to measure battery state of charge (SOC). We don't know what method the car's battery management system (BMS) is using, but presumably it is not accurate to the point that it will allow the auto start/stop system to shut down the engine even if there isn't enough battery charge to restart it. That is the focus of this recall; to fix the software to avoid this issue.

There are clues in the report that suggest the BMS and BCM software communicate to changer alternator output. On page five you can read the following:



This implies that the integrated system software is not providing enough alternator output to recharge the vehicle battery while driving, and this corresponds with owner reports here on the forum. It also corresponds with reports from owners whose battery problems disappear as long as they keep their battery on a maintenance charger. If this is the case, it's very likely there is nothing whatsoever wrong with the OE batteries, they simply aren't getting properly recharged while driving.

I don't think it's the battery. More of a weak charging system.

 

[Dude]

Im using OBDFusion. Let me see if I can find that PID. Thank you!!


EDIT: Read a little bit deeper. No such PID on my app. I guess you need a specific tool that is able to reference the battery like you had noted.

You might not be missing much. I looked into how various tools like Torque Pro etc. measures SOC. Ask the manufacturer (of the tool you buy) how their tool measures SOC.

Look into Battery SOH as well (Post #18) and at this link (e.g. Post #5 by FB71).
https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/battery-state-of-health-report-from-dealer.10826/

There are also tables like this that battery manufacturers and others create::

See Post # 24 for Flooded Lead Acid (FLA) battery chart.

 

[coopny]

I don't think it's the battery. More of a weak charging system.

It's not even a weak system, it's the system being hobbled by software. The current software seems to not run the alternator enough (or high enough) to keep the battery at a good state of charge.

I observed this at longer stops before I got my auto start/stop eliminator, it would let the battery go down to around 11.7 volts, then the engine would kick back on and the alternator would be running with 14.9V reading from my cigarette lighter splitter plug display.

I can't say it's all just stop and go as while re-running a dashcam wire this winter I idled the car and actually lost state of charge with the engine running the entire time... it seems to be aggressive in not running the alternator in an effort to save power.

 

[Mark S.]

...it seems to be aggressive in not running the alternator in an effort to save power.

Or, it's just as the report says: the system is unable to accurately detect battery state of charge, therefore the alternator doesn't provide enough power to recharge it.

 

[ZQ8]

https://fordauthority.com/2024/04/ford-bronco-sport-maverick-recalled-over-low-battery-issue/

 

[sajohnson]

Not sure what the difference is, but my BS has been sitting for weeks at a time since I was laid off in December. I have gone weeks without leaving the house and I keep expecting to have an issue and need to jump start it. I have purchased a tender but I have not used it yet. If I had needed to jump start it, that would encourage me to install the tender. I have been very surprised, especially given the winter weather. It is kept in the garage which does shield it from the worst of the weather but it still gets cold out there. The one thing I can think of is that my key is stored on the opposite side of the house from the garage. I’m just wondering if that could be a contributing factor?

Make my day -- hook up that BT!

 

[mikeyncc]

My guess is that Ford intentionally set charging system up so that alternator produces absolute minimum voltage, in an effort to maximize fuel economy. The low alternator output is insufficient to maintain proper battery voltage unless you drive a couple of hundred miles per day.
This assumes that an alternator is harder to turn as it increases output voltage.
I leave my auto start / stop on and when it stops working, I put a charger on the battery.
I must do this more in the winter, not so much now that warmer weather is here. This is the first vehicle I have ever owned that I had to do this, a combination of crap batteries and very high parasitic load.
If any of these assumptions are correct, watch for the reprogramming to increase our fuel consumption.

Fog

start/stop doesn't work on my vehicle in the winter..

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