Not happy with Ford/Local Ford Dealer - P04F0

[tjm73]

Not very pleased with this situation. Got a 2022 Bronco Sport with the 1.5EB and a tick under 64,000 miles. It's been a great little SUV. Last weekend the CEL lights up. So I read the code. P04F0. Look it up. "EVAP System High Load Purge Line A Performance".

No big deal I figure I'll drive it for a few days see if it clears itself. It didn't. So I manually clear it. Next start up immediately relights the CEL. Ok, I'll keep driving it for a couple fuel fills and reassess. Nothing changes. Ok, it'll have to go in for service. Not a big deal it's got CA emissions (I live in NY and we use the CA emissions rules). Call the dealer tell the service writer I have a CEL and the code is P04F0 and should be covered. All is fine until this point. These things happen.

Then the guy tells me it might not be covered. They will have to hook up the scanner and diag it to confirm and then submit to Ford. If it is covered, I won't have to pay anything. But if it's not I will have a roughly $225 diag fee and I'll have to pay for the replacement part and labor. So I make the appointment and look up the part. It's about $180 for a bundle of tubes and the actual valve. But the valve itself is like $25 if you own an Escape. Same engine. Same basic chassis. WTF Ford?!? Anyway, I can buy the part and just fix the damn thing myself and be out $180 and a half hour of my time or I can literally gamble at the dealership. Maybe it costs me $400-$500 or maybe it's free. Only the house knows. But some how this part that is definitely connected to the emissions system and will absolutely fail my BS next inspection may, or may not, be covered by the emissions warranty and I have no way to know before putting myself on the hook for several hundred dollars if it's not. But it definitely should be.

Way to dodge your emissions responsibilities Ford. My only real choice is spend $180 for sure or risk hundreds to maybe have it replaced under warranty.

I've never owned anything but Ford products. My Father owned a Ford dealership for 35+ years. But my next vehicle may not be a Ford because of these shenanigans and Ford's dismal recall situation right now. I'd love to talk with Ford about this before making my next move.

Sponsored

 

[Dude]

It’s not a covered part although many have stated it really should be covered - many people have posted on this forum about the same issue you are having along with the assembly part # (the entire assembly is to be replaced), I recall people stating it’s about a 15 minute easy task

 

[rugedraw]

Choose your battles. It's super easy and inexpensive to do yourself.

https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/p0496-evap-purge-valve-replacement.13177/

If your father owned a dealer for almost 4 decades, then you should know that is how dealerships work; regardless of the manufacturer. The dealer group I work for has 11 different brands and they all work the same way. I'm not defending Ford......I'm just saying that for things like this, the grass is not greener on the other side. IMO, of course.

 

[tjm73]

I don't begrudge dealers or repair shops making money doing diag for jobs. They have to buy the machine and they have invested time to use it. I get that. I take issue with a $225 charge for it. It's excessive. IMO

What I really don't like is the dealer telling me it might be covered if it's known to not be. That is shady AF in my opinion. Feels like they are trying to lure me in and then BAM here's your $500 bill. I'll do it myself. I don't trust this dealer anyway. They are just close to my house.

As for any grass is greener kind of thing. The grass is brown everywhere. Some places just have less brown if seems. Ford has quality control issues that they can't seem to get under control. I read they had more recalls than three other manufacturers combined in 2022. That's sad. I guess quality is not job 1 anymore.

 

[tjm73]

is there any kind of special tool for these style clamps? I hav not encountered them before. Newest car I've worked on in the last 10 years has been my '93 Mustang GT.

 

[TheX]

What I really don't like is the dealer telling me it might be covered if it's known to not be. That is shady AF in my opinion.

#Iagree

 

[Robins21]

I worked in the automotive business for 25 years from 1978 - 2003. Nodays all dealers regardless of manufacturer charge way too much for labor. I worked for domestic & foreign dealerships & they are all the same. The dealership service dept should be able to tell you if the part is covered or not. Shadey indeed.

 

[Sandman]

Not very pleased with this situation. Got a 2022 Bronco Sport with the 1.5EB and a tick under 64,000 miles. It's been a great little SUV. Last weekend the CEL lights up. So I read the code. P04F0. Look it up. "EVAP System High Load Purge Line A Performance".

No big deal I figure I'll drive it for a few days see if it clears itself. It didn't. So I manually clear it. Next start up immediately relights the CEL. Ok, I'll keep driving it for a couple fuel fills and reassess. Nothing changes. Ok, it'll have to go in for service. Not a big deal it's got CA emissions (I live in NY and we use the CA emissions rules). Call the dealer tell the service writer I have a CEL and the code is P04F0 and should be covered. All is fine until this point. These things happen.

Then the guy tells me it might not be covered. They will have to hook up the scanner and diag it to confirm and then submit to Ford. If it is covered, I won't have to pay anything. But if it's not I will have a roughly $225 diag fee and I'll have to pay for the replacement part and labor. So I make the appointment and look up the part. It's about $180 for a bundle of tubes and the actual valve. But the valve itself is like $25 if you own an Escape. Same engine. Same basic chassis. WTF Ford?!? Anyway, I can buy the part and just fix the damn thing myself and be out $180 and a half hour of my time or I can literally gamble at the dealership. Maybe it costs me $400-$500 or maybe it's free. Only the house knows. But some how this part that is definitely connected to the emissions system and will absolutely fail my BS next inspection may, or may not, be covered by the emissions warranty and I have no way to know before putting myself on the hook for several hundred dollars if it's not. But it definitely should be.

Way to dodge your emissions responsibilities Ford. My only real choice is spend $180 for sure or risk hundreds to maybe have it replaced under warranty.

I've never owned anything but Ford products. My Father owned a Ford dealership for 35+ years. But my next vehicle may not be a Ford because of these shenanigans and Ford's dismal recall situation right now. I'd love to talk with Ford about this before making my next move.

Sorry you’re going through this battle. I had same issue with my dealer still within warranty coverage. My first set of tires wore out quicker than they should have. I rotated every 5000 miles and had 4 wheel alignment done. Second set of tires wore out too soon and after a long fought battle I complained to ford corporate. They found out that a 2021 tech bulletin reportedly recommended replacing the front control arms due to manufacturer defect. That was the issue and the dealer still tried to battle me about the control arms. I never hit any potholes or curbs so no excuses to not do repair. I had an outside repair facility opinion that control arms were bad causing un normal wear to tires. They only reimbursed me for a diagnostic 4 wheel alignment and the tech time inspecting the suspension system. No new control arms. As you well know Ford is so overwhelmed with thousands of warranty claims they are losing a ton of money so dealers are just saying no.

 

[Sandman]

Sad situation. Ford is so overwhelmed with record high recalls dealers are just saying no.

 

[incavulator]

I don't know about the laws in NY, but ANYTHING that causes the MIL to illuminate in CA must be covered under the emissions warranty, per CA state law.

I don't know if NY only adopted CA's emission standards but not their warranty requirements?

If it were me, I'd be making some calls to someone in NY state.... maybe the attorney general's office to get clarification.

I'm sure it's probably easy enough to fix yourself, but IF there's a systemic problem with the dealer charging for repairs that are required to be covered under warranty, that needs to be addressed and resolved. If no one attempts to correct it, it will just continue.

 

[sajohnson]

I don't begrudge dealers or repair shops making money doing diag for jobs. They have to buy the machine and they have invested time to use it. I get that. I take issue with a $225 charge for it. It's excessive. IMO

What I really don't like is the dealer telling me it might be covered if it's known to not be. That is shady AF in my opinion. Feels like they are trying to lure me in and then BAM here's your $500 bill. I'll do it myself. I don't trust this dealer anyway. They are just close to my house.

As for any grass is greener kind of thing. The grass is brown everywhere. Some places just have less brown if seems. Ford has quality control issues that they can't seem to get under control. I read they had more recalls than three other manufacturers combined in 2022. That's sad. I guess quality is not job 1 anymore.

Very well said.

 

[incavulator]

is there any kind of special tool for these style clamps? I hav not encountered them before. Newest car I've worked on in the last 10 years has been my '93 Mustang GT.

No. You push (or pull, depending on the design) on those locking clips at the location of the arrows I added below. There should be no special tools required for these.

Looking at the photo you provided, it looks (to me) like you'd pull out on the upper clip (the black one), and push in on the lower one (the tan one) to release them. I don't think the lower clip will pull out and stay out like the upper one did.

There are two designs that I am familiar with. One kind that pulls out to unlock and stays out until you push it back in (which I'm pretty sure is the black one at the top). The other kind works like a spring and only has one position. For this second type, you have to push in on that clip to unlock it but it won't stay in.....it's just deforms the clip (to release) when you push on it and it returns to normal shape (locked position) when you release it. I THINK that might be the bottom one.

If you buy the new part before you remove the old one, you can play with them out of the vehicle to see how they work so you know what to do to remove the old one.

I have not changed this specific part on a BS, but have used these clips on several vehicles/brands. Someone who is familiar with this specific part can correct me if I'm mistaken about my assumptions based on the photo, but this should be pretty close.

 

[jkernitzki]

No. You push (or pull, depending on the design) on those locking clips at the location of the arrows I added below. There should be no special tools required for these.

Looking at the photo you provided, it looks (to me) like you'd pull out on the upper clip (the black one), and push in on the lower one (the tan one) to release them. I don't think the lower clip will pull out and stay out like the upper one did.

There are two designs that I am familiar with. One kind that pulls out to unlock and stays out until you push it back in (which I'm pretty sure is the black one at the top). The other kind works like a spring and only has one position. For this second type, you have to push in on that clip to unlock it but it won't stay in.....it's just deforms the clip (to release) when you push on it and it returns to normal shape (locked position) when you release it. I THINK that might be the bottom one.

If you buy the new part before you remove the old one, you can play with them out of the vehicle to see how they work so you know what to do to remove the old one.

I have not changed this specific part on a BS, but have used these clips on several vehicles/brands. Someone who is familiar with this specific part can correct me if I'm mistaken about my assumptions based on the photo, but this should be pretty close.

You're spot on. Though the geometry may change for specific applications, it's super common. Same basic style is used on fuel and evap lines. Generally all that's needed at most is a screwdriver to open and pliers to close, though I'm sure BMW or Mercedes probably require an SST.