12V and 110V Power Outlets can power what?

[Leeford]

Hello All, what can I run from these ports? Are they there for small items like a laptop. I have a OB model.

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[Dude]

Hello All, what can I run from these ports? Are they there for small items like a laptop. I have a OB model.

[EDITED] 110V outlets in yours is just 150w total for all outlets which is not much

https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/what-have-you-been-able-to-run-off-the-150w-ac-adapter-1-5-liter-engines.3775/

2.0L models have 400w total for all 110V outlets

The 12V powerport is plenty of power; owners manual says “ When you switch the vehicle on, you can use the socket to power 12V appliances with a maximum current rating of 20 A. (Max: 240W) “

 

[thomasm23]

I have a 65w power supply for a Lenovo notebook. The input on the power supply is 1.3 amps. 1.3 amps x 120 volts = 156 watts.

This is over 150 watts. I cannot use this power supply. The inverter will just shut off.

What I can use is my USB-C iPhone charger or the USB-C port in the vehicle. It is a slow charge, but it does work.

 

[thomasm23]

Correction

I looked closer at my power supply. It has an input of 1.8 amps. The power outlet is 110 volts.

So, 1.8 amps x 110 volts = 198 watts

 

[Dude]

The Lenovo laptop power supply rating label is a peak rating. Under peak conditions, the charger could draw more than a 150w inverter in a 1.5L Bronco Sport can provide. More explanation can be found in this article:

https://engineering.stackexchange.com/questions/47216/ac-dc-laptop-adapter-power-losses

 

[TNFurb]

My daughter has plugged in a MacBook and didn’t seem to have any issues.

 

[sajohnson]

Related note (12V outlet):

On p.149 of my manual, it says, "Do not plug in any device that supplies power to the vehicle..."

That is exactly what we do with our RV (Sprinter chassis) -- we have a Battery Tender plugged into the unswitched 12V outlet in the cab. Electrically, it's the same as connecting the BT directly to the battery.

I've never heard of a vehicle that might be damaged by that.

Isn't that how many BS owners connect solar panels to maintain the battery?

 

[sajohnson]

From page 150 of the manual. Note:

"The power outlet temporarily turns off power..."

It sounds like it has an automatically resetting breaker.

The 'fault mode' instructions continue on the next page:

2. Switch your vehicle off to let the
system cool and reset the fault mode.
3. Switch your vehicle back on, but do not
plug your device back in.
4. With your vehicle on, make sure the
indicator light remains on.
5. Make sure your device does not exceed
the power limits and then plug in your
device.
Note: If a fault occurs again, your device
may exceed the capacity available from the
power outlet.
151

~~~

I'd say that as long as the device is not obviously too much of a load to give it a try. Judging by what the manual says, if the inverter gets overloaded, there is no harm done.

Keep in mind that many devices use less power -- sometimes significantly less -- than their rating (which is typically a worst-case max).

One way to determine actual usage is with a Kill-A-Watt meter. They're pretty cheap. There are a couple different models, the base model works fine. They were tested by CR a while back and found to be very accurate:
https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Electricity-Usage-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU?th=1

 

[Dude]

As one example for a 1.5L Bronco Sport with the 150W inverter, let’s say a 65W laptop power supply (80% to 90% efficient) was rated at 1.6A max input over the range 100-240V, and the Bronco Sport inverter is 110V, the input power coming into the laptop power supply could in theory be 176W.

However…
When the laptop batteries are dead, the power supply might put out its full 65W and the input side nominally might use just 81W (65W / 0.80) however when the laptop power supply is first plugged it, there is a momentary draw of power to charge up the capacitors in the laptop power supply and that will not exceed the rated 1.6A max input. Therefore, the laptop power supply 1.6A spec is a maximum that could be drawn but typically would only be for a short surge.

Then as the laptop battery gets charged up, the laptop power supply efficiency in this example will increase up to its 90% and the input power consumed may drop to 65W/0.90 = 72W or even lower towards typically <5W phantom drain as less power is needed when the laptop batteries approach full charge.

Nominally the input power needed likely is between 72W to 81W at 110V and the laptop power supply puts out its 65W to charge the laptop batteries.

So while there could be the momentary power drawn of 176W which exceeds the 150W max power rating of the Bronco Sports inverter, will that 176W power draw damage or shut down the Bronco Sport 150W inverter? The answer is … maybe.

A similar surge typically occurs for the portable refrigerator/freezer some people use out in the wild which has to be accounted for when determining if that device can be connected to the 150W inverter. Also the portable refrigerator/freezer may not be a pure resistive load, it may also be a reactive load (as sajohnson points out above, the Bronco Sport owners manual states not to plug in compressor-driven refrigerators into a Bronco Sport 110V outlet).

 

[sajohnson]

[I thought I posted this, but found it was still a draft]:

The Kill-A-Watt meter (above) can display Power Factor (PF) which will indicate how reactive a load is.

Owner's manual (just one page):
https://www.powermeterstore.ca/pdfs/cache/www.powermeterstore.ca/p3_international/power_meter/p3_kw_ez/manual/p3_international_p3_kw_ez_power_meter_manual.pdf

P4400 Kill A Watt TM Operation Manual (There's more at the link)

1. The LCD shows all meter readings: Volts, Current, Watts, Frequency, Power Factor, and VA.

4. The Watt/VA Key is a toggle function key. Press the Watt/VA key once to display Watt meter, then press key to display VA meter. The LCD will display Watts as the active power, where VA is the apparent Power. (VA=Vrms Arms)

5. The HZ/PF is a toggle function key. Press the HZ/PF key once to display the frequency (Hertz), then press key to display the Power Factor.

So with a ~$30 Kill-A-Watt meter, any device can be checked before plugging it into an outlet in the BS. They are great for checking items around the house. They track watts over time, so they can be used for intermittent loads like fridges and window A/C units.

The meter will display amps, watts, and PF (among other things).

Ideally, the PF=1. If a load is reactive (what the BS manual warns about) the PF will be less than 1. The more reactive, the lower the PF. The following (from the BS manual) are reactive:

"Motor loads, such as vacuum cleaners,
electric saws or other electric power
tools and compressor-driven
refrigerators."

A quick initial surge of current might not be caught, but if it's that fast, it may not trip the breaker for the inverter. Breakers work by heat, so they typically handle more than their rating for a short time -- but often only ~80% of their rating indefinitely:

 

[Bucko]

The Ford EV F150 will power a house...at least that's what the commercial showed. I wonder for how long though? 30 seconds?

On my BS Outer banks, I have a small light to keep the auto on/off from operating.

 

[Dude]

The Ford EV F150 will power a house...at least that's what the commercial showed. I wonder for how long though? 30 seconds?

Preliminary info:

 

[sajohnson]

The Ford EV F150 will power a house...at least that's what the commercial showed. I wonder for how long though? 30 seconds?

On my BS Outer banks, I have a small light to keep the auto on/off from operating.

As the Ford statement Dude posted indicates -- "it depends".

3 days x 30kWh/day = 90kWh total. That's a significant amount of energy. How long it will last depends on the load.

Generally, battery powered whole house UPS systems are not wired to run the heaviest loads: stove; oven; water heater; dryer; A/C or heat pump, etc. The "critical loads" panel will include lights, outlets, the fridge, maybe the microwave (heavy load but brief use), and, in our case, the well pump (another heavy load but it's very intermittent).

In fact, that's what led me to install the UPS -- our 5kW generator would not start the well pump (it pulls a lot of current to start). Two 2,400W Trace inverters (lower cont. power rating than the generator) have no problem with the well pump, because they can surge to ~16,000 watts (for the time required to start the pump).

To get a rough idea of how long the F-150 battery will last, add up the loads and divide that number into 90kWh. For an extreme low use example, if the average load is 180W -- 90kWh / 180Wh = 500 hours. 500 /24 hours per day= ~21 days.

Inverters are not 100% efficient, more like 85-90%+ best case (last I saw), so it might be (say) 18 days -- still, very good.

Of course, most people (esp families) will use more than that -- but I'm not sure where Ford gets their usage of 30kWh/day. That seems excessive. That's 1.25kWh/hour! A couple LED lights might be 0.015kWh/hour; LCD TVs use about 0.016kWh/hour; a newer fridge is about 0.40kWh/hour; a laptop is ~0.03kWh/hour. Most people have more than that running, but that adds up to only 0.43kWh/hour. Or 90kWh / 0.43kWh = 209 hours or 8.7 days (less inverter losses):
https://www.siliconvalleypower.com/residents/save-energy/appliance-energy-use-chart

Me thinks Ford is being smart and making very modest claims for run time to minimize the number of grumpy customers.

 

[Bucko]

As the Ford statement Dude posted indicates -- "it depends".

3 days x 30kWh/day = 90kWh total. That's a significant amount of energy. How long it will last depends on the load.

Generally, battery powered whole house UPS systems are not wired to run the heaviest loads: stove; oven; water heater; dryer; A/C or heat pump, etc. The "critical loads" panel will include lights, outlets, the fridge, maybe the microwave (heavy load but brief use), and, in our case, the well pump (another heavy load but it's very intermittent).

In fact, that's what led me to install the UPS -- our 5kW generator would not start the well pump (it pulls a lot of current to start). Two 2,400W Trace inverters (lower cont. power rating than the generator) have no problem with the well pump, because they can surge to ~16,000 watts (for the time required to start the pump).

To get a rough idea of how long the F-150 battery will last, add up the loads and divide that number into 90kWh. For an extreme low use example, if the average load is 180W -- 90kWh / 180Wh = 500 hours. 500 /24 hours per day= ~21 days.

Inverters are not 100% efficient, more like 85-90%+ best case (last I saw), so it might be (say) 18 days -- still, very good.

Of course, most people (esp families) will use more than that -- but I'm not sure where Ford gets their usage of 30kWh/day. That seems excessive. That's 1.25kWh/hour! A couple LED lights might be 0.015kWh/hour; LCD TVs use about 0.016kWh/hour; a newer fridge is about 0.40kWh/hour; a laptop is ~0.03kWh/hour. Most people have more than that running, but that adds up to only 0.43kWh/hour. Or 90kWh / 0.43kWh = 209 hours or 8.7 days (less inverter losses):
https://www.siliconvalleypower.com/residents/save-energy/appliance-energy-use-chart

Me thinks Ford is being smart and making very modest claims for run time to minimize the number of grumpy customers.

For the 80 to 100K asking price (average price for the EV Ford F150), I can buy 1 house Generex unit and pocket 70 to 90K. Plus, power all my needs in the house.

 

[Bill G]

For the 80 to 100K asking price (average price for the EV Ford F150), I can buy 1 house Generex unit and pocket 70 to 90K. Plus, power all my needs in the house.

Yup . . . proper tool for the proper job

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