Rear tires slipping in snow/slush

[tabitham72]

I was in slippery mode doing 40mph when my 'Spidey sense' went off and I thought I was feeling the wheels close to losing traction. I just kept decreasing my speed until it went away which was around 35mph. It was slick stuff. Even if I had been in my F150 in 4x4 I doubt I would have been going over 45mph since all that would do is get me in the ditch faster once I lost total traction. I've never lost control and gone in the ditch the 40 years I've been driving Minnesota winter roads. Guess I've been lucky in being able to feel the traction and slow down if I needed to.

That’s exactly what happened when my back tires slipped, slowed down enough to where other cars were zooming by me. Just wondering if this is going to be an ongoing problem, and the roads where I live are slick all winter long, black ice out there right now, waiting for the next storm on Sunday.

 

[sajohnson]

My recommendation is worth exactly what you pay for it.

My primary reasoning for sticking with NORMAL mode is because you rarely complete an entire trip under the same road conditions. Parts of the road may have snow and ice while others may be completely clear. The manual cautions against using SLIPPERY mode on dry pavement, which means constantly switching modes as you drive. I'll stick to NORMAL mode and let the computer sort it out. If I get stuck, then I'll try one of the other modes appropriate to the conditions.

Good reasoning -- and the reason why 4WD (as opposed to AWD) is often not very useful under the conditions you describe.

The primary drawback to leaving it in NORMAL is that there will be a delay before it switches to the appropriate GOAT mode. Most of the time that short delay doesn't matter. On balance, when the road surface is variable, perhaps it's better to leave it in NORMAL, as you said.

That begs that question though, why would Ford provide a SLIPPERY mode and encourage drivers to use it? Maybe they are assuming the roads will be close to 100% snow covered? After all, that is the case quite often in some parts of the country. In that case it seems best to use SLIPPERY mode. IOW -- it's situational.

IIRC, the last time there was a discussion about using GOAT modes, there was a general consensus that where selecting the proper mode is most important is off-road, because in that case the delay from NORMAL to the appropriate mode could result in wheelspin, and one or more tires losing traction and digging in. Even then, in most cases it probably would not matter.

In most ordinary driving I doubt it matters much -- as long as SLIPPERY mode is not used on dry pavement.

 

[sajohnson]

That’s exactly what happened when my back tires slipped, slowed down enough to where other cars were zooming by me. Just wondering if this is going to be an ongoing problem, and the roads where I live are slick all winter long, black ice out there right now, waiting for the next storm on Sunday.

At the risk of sounding like a tire mfr rep -- winter tires really do make a substantial difference.

 

[Dennis Kilbride]

Yes I was heading up to the cabin in some bad weather and a guy, his wife, and son had just walked up on the road where a Highway Patrolman was waiting for them. I pulled over and snapped a quick pic. They were kind of laughing about it, even though the guy seemed to have a cut on his head and was bleeding.

 

[Mark S.]

That begs that question though, why would Ford provide a SLIPPERY mode and encourage drivers to use it?

I don't believe Ford encourages use of any specific mode; my owner's manual simply describes their functions.

Again, my recommendation is based on my driving conditions. Where I live (near St. Louis) we never see completely snow/ice covered roads. During an active weather event there will be places where the plows have not yet gotten to, but the combination of plowing and pretreating roads with salt all but guarantees most roads will be at least partially clear. My recommendation might be different if I still lived in Grand Forks, ND, where roads over wide areas can be completely snow-packed for months at a time.

 

[KidWiff]

I'm interested in what you find out.

Depending on the conditions and the tires the GTi had, it might actually have performed as well or better than the BS.

I posted recently about the test C&D did years ago where they compared a Pathfinder on all-season tire with an Altima on winter tires. The Altima was better at: steering response; cornering; braking; and speed around a snow-covered course. The Pathfinder was better at acceleration and hill climbing.

PS: If the past is any guide, this "huge winter storm" will fizzle out and we'll get some rain. It seems that the people predicting the weather can't help themselves and hype the forecast. They get into one-upmanship and pretty soon a moderate snow storm becomes an "epic nor'easter!"

So…an update; Not a huge amount of snow, maybe 3-4 inches… sorta wet. First outing in the BS Heritage last night was just fine. (Heritage trim, not the Limited) AWD system did its job and the ABS helped keep things under control in some hard braking tests. (NO other cars around)

Tires (Continental Cross Contact ATR) felt fine and did nothing to shake my confidence in dealing with the snow/slush mix. Overall, I’m pretty satisfied with performance so far.

A couple of notes:
Wipers tended to accumulate icy slush pretty quickly (passenger side) which got a little distracting. I cranked the max defroster, which helped, but it was about 120 degrees in the cabin ? I can live with that.

Also, It didn’t take long before I kept getting warning messages that the camera (rearview mirror mounted?) was obstructed and pre-collision assist was not available. Unfortunately, I was not in a position to pull off and clear the situation. Even if I was, not sure it wouldn’t have cropped up again pretty quickly. So that’s a bit of a disappointment.

As far as the FWD/AWD comparison goes, I’d say overall performance was better than my gti when shod with its winter tires. YMMV.

 

[Cage1970]

I live in Eastern Canada, so we get a fair bit of snow lol. I have a Badlands with Bridgestone Blizzaks. Here’s what I do:
If it’s dry/partially snow covered, I do nothing. Normal mode, no Goat modes used.
If snow covered, I lock in 4WD. Nothing else.
Simplistic I know, but this is exactly what I did in my F150, and the Bronco is great in snow!

 

[sajohnson]

I live in Eastern Canada, so we get a fair bit of snow lol. I have a Badlands with Bridgestone Blizzaks. Here’s what I do:
If it’s dry/partially snow covered, I do nothing. Normal mode, no Goat modes used.
If snow covered, I lock in 4WD. Nothing else.
Simplistic I know, but this is exactly what I did in my F150, and the Bronco is great in snow!

Just curious -- have you experimented with the GOAT modes on snow?

 

[Barry S.]

I don't believe Ford encourages use of any specific mode; my owner's manual simply describes their functions.

Again, my recommendation is based on my driving conditions. Where I live (near St. Louis) we never see completely snow/ice covered roads. During an active weather event there will be places where the plows have not yet gotten to, but the combination of plowing and pretreating roads with salt all but guarantees most roads will be at least partially clear. My recommendation might be different if I still lived in Grand Forks, ND, where roads over wide areas can be completely snow-packed for months at a time.

I'm in North Carolina. We rarely get snow but we do get ice storms. Regardless of your tires or GOAT modes, the best advice is to stay off the road. Schools and businesses close down since it is virtually impossible to navigate the roads safely.

 

[Cage1970]

Just curious -- have you experimented with the GOAT modes on snow?

I really didn’t see the need to, but may try when we get another snowstorm

 

[point78]

The manual cautions against using SLIPPERY mode on dry pavement, which means constantly switching modes as you drive.

The manual is saying don't lock the rear Diff, which you can do in SLIPPERY mode, on dry roads.

 

[wiyeti]

At the risk of sounding like a tire mfr rep -- winter tires really do make a substantial difference.

+1 on tires being a huge differentiator. Just put CC2s on my OB. First big snow recently, and wow what a difference in braking and turning on slush. I can only imagine how snow tires would be, but I wanted something for year round.

 

[Mark S.]

The manual is saying don't lock the rear Diff, which you can do in SLIPPERY mode, on dry roads.

It's possible. Here's the full section on SLIPPERY mode from the manual (for the 2023 MY):

SLIPPERY

For less than ideal road conditions such as snow or ice covered roads. You can use this mode for crossing terrain where loose, wet or slippery materials covers a firm surface. Slippery mode lowers throttle response and optimizes shifting for slippery surfaces.

The rear differential lock feature is available in slippery mode. When enabled it is engaged below 15 mph (24 km/h).

NOTE: Do not use this mode on dry, hard pavement. This could produce some vibration, driveline bind up, and potential excessive tire and vehicle wear depending on the four-wheel drive mode selection.

Here, the manual refers to the "rear differential lock" as a feature, not a mode. The note refers to use of "this mode." I can see how this might cause confusion!

The proscription against using diff lock on dry pavement is found in the section describing operation of the Four-Wheel Drive system; the manual says it's strictly for off-road use only. It's also described as a feature there:

The rear differential lock is for use in mud, rocks, sand or off-road conditions where you need maximum traction. It is not for use on dry pavement.

Note: This feature is for off-road use only and is not for use on dry pavement. Using the rear differential lock feature on dry pavement can produce excessive noise, and increase tire and vehicle wear. Operating your vehicle in these conditions could subject your vehicle to excessive stress, which may result in damage not covered under your warranty.

Note that there is no mention of warranty concerns in the section describing SLIPPERY mode. Given that SLIPPERY mode is specifically meant to be used on-road and the diff lock is not, I would say the proscription in the section on SLIPPERY mode about use on dry pavement is about the mode, not the diff lock.

 

[point78]

Note that there is no mention of warranty concerns in the section describing SLIPPERY mode. Given that SLIPPERY mode is specifically meant to be used on-road and the diff lock is not, I would say the proscription in the section on SLIPPERY mode about use on dry pavement is about the mode, not the diff lock.

I agree with you on the manuals use of MODE and FEATURE.

But, I believe the intent of Ford is for you not to have the rear Dif locked... (as locking the Dif can cause all the listed issues if you try turning on a high traction surface. turning causes the wheels to have a different distance to travel, locking the wheels together causes binding). same issue with the center diff locked.

Have you ever been in a pickup truck with a transfer case locked into 4x4, and tried doing a tight turn on pavement? Its immediately obvious.

Slippery mode doesn't lock the front and rear, or the rear diff side to side, unless you push the button to do so. No issues with dry pavement without anything locked.

You shouldn't use the Slippery mode with the rear Dif lock feature activated.

 

[sajohnson]

+1 on tires being a huge differentiator. Just put CC2s on my OB. First big snow recently, and wow what a difference in braking and turning on slush. I can only imagine how snow tires would be, but I wanted something for year round.

Excellent choice.

Before my wife and I retired, I had (still have) winter tires for all of our vehicles -- because we had to drive in snow & ice. Now we can delay almost anything until the roads are clear.

For that reason, I put Cross Climate 2 tires on her RAV4 (1-2 years before getting the BS BL). My thinking was that while the CC2 is not a dedicated winter tire, it does have the "3PMSF" symbol, indicating reasonable snow & ice traction.

Obviously, if a person is going to be driving in winter conditions a lot, winter tires are the way to go. The problem is that in areas like ours, most of the time the roads are free of ice & snow. In that case winter tires are actually WORSE, because their wet & dry braking and handling is generally mediocre.

When I was commuting, I would swap the winter and 3-season tires several times a season -- depending on the forecast. We have a lift, a large compressor, air tools, and floor jacks so it was not a big deal. To be honest, rather than putting my WRX on the lift (which took a few minutes) I'd just grab a floor jack, a torque wrench, and a ratchet and do one side at a time out on the lane. I realize that on the internet guys are prone to minimize the amount of time jobs take (I replaced the head gasket in 1 hour!), but swapping tires that way took about 20 minutes.

That's really the best, but for occasional light snow, the CC2 should be fine. Just be aware that some other drivers may have winter tires and will be able to stop quicker on snow & ice.

BTW -- my brother in Iowa City has a Subaru Ascent with relatively new CC2 tires. Just the other day, told me that he was sliding around quite a bit (other drivers were too of course). He said he was driving on snow but thought there was ice underneath. I felt bad because I had recommended the CC2, but sometimes what are really needed are studded tires.

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