Rear tires slipping in snow/slush

[tabitham72]

New to this board, need advice. I have a 21 BB, live up in the mountains in Northern New Mexico, have driven on snow packed/slush roads for years, last car was a RAV 4, never had problems like this, have driven my BB a few times now and the tires on the back end have slipped, I put slippery mode on and still feel the slip, literally driving 15-20 on highway as everyone is passing me, feels like the car is going to go into a full spin at any moment. I have Goodyear Assurance Weather Ready tires inflated at 33, new and came with the car, any thoughts what could be causing this, or anyone else experience this problem. Drive 60 mins round trip to work, need to be safe on the road, do not feel safe at all. Please help with thoughts or comments.

Ok so here is my update on my experience with snow packed roads, ice, slush basically terrible driving conditions. Started out in Slippery mode and quickly felt unsafe and basically ready to go into a full spin, so after reading several comments on this thread I decided to switch to sport mode after someone had mentioned they prefer to drive in this mode because it acts more like a 4wd, so after doing so I liked the lower gear it was stayed in as well as the car not feeling so loose on the road. I traveled 60 miles round trip without any issues, of course driving at a speed that was appropriate to the conditions. I also took it off road for a minute and was able to get out easily which made extremely happy knowing this little guy did what it was supposed to do. I’m not going to use slippery again when driving in those conditions. Tires were great as well. Thank you everyone for your comment's, really appreciate other drivers insight and I formation. Very helpful forum.

 

[tabitham72]

That’s the issue I have when it’s pouring rain. Because it’s a 4x4 type system the rear wheels won’t engage till after it detects slip. I prefer to use sport mode because to me it acts more like a full time AWD system.

I tried driving with sport mode instead of slippery, much better. Thanks for the info.

 

[sajohnson]

I tried driving with sport mode instead of slippery, much better. Thanks for the info.

I don't have any first hand experience, so I'm not doubting that Sport Mode felt better -- but it is surprising because is the exact opposite of what is typically recommended by Ford and other mfrs. From the 2022 manual:

For a 'slippery' or snow & ice mode, what is typically recommended is less throttle response; slower steering; shifting at lower rpm (getting into higher gears sooner); and slower acceleration.

IOW, as if the vehicle is operating in molasses.

In ye olden times, the recommendations were essentially the same, but of course everything was up to the driver. Essentially, any actions the driver takes should be slow and easy. Anything abrupt is more likely to cause the operator to lose control.

Sometimes it was necessary to release the brakes to avoid an accident. Our neighbors used to park at the bottom of the 20-25% slope hill on our road. At the bottom is a hard left.. If you could not make the turn and went straight you'd plow into their car(s). More than once, in our non-ABS Toyota truck I was sliding down the hill and had to release the brakes in order to get the tires rolling and have some steering.

Even ABS does not always help. My NX2000 has ABS. I was driving home one night on I-370 and hit some black ice (unexpected, all other roads were clear). The NX started drifting right toward the guardrail. I steered left but that had no effect. I applied the brakes and -- nothing (all 4 wheels locked up simultaneously, fooling the ABS). I was driving slowly and in 4th gear, so there should not have been any engine braking to speak of, but in a last-ditch effort to regain steering before hitting the guardrail I disengaged the clutch. That did the trick. I got steering back and gradually made my way back to the right lane.

Anyway, I'm anxious to hear any opinions as to why Sport Mode worked better than Slippery Mode.

 

[21Broncosaurus]

I don't have any first hand experience, so I'm not doubting that Sport Mode felt better -- but it is surprising because is the exact opposite of what is typically recommended by Ford and other mfrs. From the 2022 manual:

For a 'slippery' or snow & ice mode, what is typically recommended is less throttle response; slower steering; shifting at lower rpm (getting into higher gears sooner); and slower acceleration.

IOW, as if the vehicle is operating in molasses.

In ye olden times, the recommendations were essentially the same, but of course everything was up to the driver. Essentially, any actions the driver takes should be slow and easy. Anything abrupt is more likely to cause the operator to lose control.

Sometimes it was necessary to release the brakes to avoid an accident. Our neighbors used to park at the bottom of the 20-25% slope hill on our road. At the bottom is a hard left.. If you could not make the turn and went straight you'd plow into their car(s). More than once, in our non-ABS Toyota truck I was sliding down the hill and had to release the brakes in order to get the tires rolling and have some steering.

Even ABS does not always help. My NX2000 has ABS. I was driving home one night on I-370 and hit some black ice (unexpected, all other roads were clear). The NX started drifting right toward the guardrail. I steered left but that had no effect. I applied the brakes and -- nothing (all 4 wheels locked up simultaneously, fooling the ABS). I was driving slowly and in 4th gear, so there should not have been any engine braking to speak of, but in a last-ditch effort to regain steering before hitting the guardrail I disengaged the clutch. That did the trick. I got steering back and gradually made my way back to the right lane.

Anyway, I'm anxious to hear any opinions as to why Sport Mode worked better than Slippery Mode.

You have to consider the fact that the Badlands and trims with the 1.5L have a completely different AWD system. I posted some videos a while back of slip tests performed on both systems and they are vastly different. Badlands is superior in every way.

 

[sajohnson]

You have to consider the fact that the Badlands and trims with the 1.5L have a completely different AWD system. I posted some videos a while back of slip tests performed on both systems and they are vastly different. Badlands is superior in every way.

As a Badlands owner I'd love to agree with you.

The BS BL is clearly better in some ways. A primary one being the dual clutch locking rear, however that is not engaged automatically in slippery mode (but can be engaged manually).

In the manual, the 2 GOAT modes that are exclusive to the Badlands (Mud/Ruts and Rock Crawl) are labeled 2.0L -- Ecoboost. All of the other GOAT modes apply to all BS models.

So unless I'm missing something (possible) SLIPPERY mode is the same in all models (with the exception of the manual rear lock in the BS BL).

If you are referring to the roller tests, yep, they're impressive. Not to many "AWD/4WD" vehicles can move with only one tire having traction.

 

[21Broncosaurus]

As a Badlands owner I'd love to agree with you.

The BS BL is clearly better in some ways. A primary one being the dual clutch locking rear, however that is not engaged automatically in slippery mode (but can be engaged manually).

In the manual, the 2 GOAT modes that are exclusive to the Badlands (Mud/Ruts and Rock Crawl) are labeled 2.0L -- Ecoboost. All of the other GOAT modes apply to all BS models.

So unless I'm missing something (possible) SLIPPERY mode is the same in all models (with the exception of the manual rear lock in the BS BL).

If you are referring to the roller tests, yep, they're impressive. Not to many "AWD/4WD" vehicles can move with only one tire having traction.

It would seem like that on paper but it has to come down to the ecu programming. Because mode per mode on both vehicles the badlands comes out with little to no effort meanwhile 1.5 ecu struggles to figure out what’s going on.

 

[sajohnson]

It would seem like that on paper but it has to come down to the ecu programming. Because mode per mode on both vehicles the badlands comes out with little to no effort meanwhile 1.5 ecu struggles to figure out what’s going on.

I'm not a Ford engineer, but I once knew a guy who washed cars at the local dealership so...

To be clear, I'm just comparing SPORT with SLIPPERY mode. They should be the same in all BS models. I'm trying to figure out why SPORT mode worked better in the snow for Tabitha.

Something that occurred to me is that the manual warns against using SLIPPERY mode on dry pavement. That strongly implies that 4WD is locked automatically. Of course that is NOT the case with SPORT (or NORMAL and ECO).

Somewhere here I mentioned that when we lock the center diff in our '97 RAV4, it noticeably improves traction in snow but it "crabs" -- the rear end has a mind of it's own. It does not always track with the front.

So my theory is that if SLIPPERY mode does lock the center ("4WD lock") it may behave similarly. I'm sure there are YouTube videos about it, I just haven't checked.

As for the BS vs BS BL on the rollers, I'll have to watch it again. As far as I know the only significant difference in the AWD system between the Badlands and 1.5L models is the lockable rear in the BS BL. Any mode that does not use the "rear diff lock feature" should operate equally across all models.

For example, SAND mode engages both 4WD lock and rear diff lock.

That would explain the advantage the Badlands has when testing in SAND mode:

It's odd that Ford recommends SLIPPPERY mode for snow-covered roads, yet SPORT works better.

 

[Dennis Kilbride]

Update: I live in Minnesota and while this winter has been mild (compared to the last 5) yesterday we got a nasty, slick, snow fall move through making the roads bad. I've lived on a steep hill the past 40 years and my street is one of three in town that can get very ugly if the conditions are right. I have seen as many as 8 vehicles stopped dead on my street and they all had to back down the hill and attempt a different route.

Last night after getting off work (snow plowing and salting) I turned the corner to see someone stopped dead in the middle of the street with the flashers on. A good indication to stay away. I detoured and came out higher on the hill to look down and now see 2 more vehicles stopped behind the first one.

One of the vehicles was a Ford F150 and he came around the first vehicle and up the hill he went obviously in 4x4.

The two cars still left on the hill both chose to back down it and find another route. I decided to test the hill out with the Big Bend and see just how good it was. I went up the hill two times and stopped in 6 locations which appeared to be the worse with obvious tires marks spinning and sliding on the icy snow mix. I was in 'SLIPPERY MODE' and the Bronco Sport never gave a hint of slip from any of the 6 complete stops I made facing up the hill.

The tires are stock with 8K on them. While my first post shown way above, I was somewhat disappointed on how I perceived the Bronco Sport handled on icy roads I am changing my opinion. This thing is a winner. The picture(s) I've posted are about nine hours after the event. The plows had NOT been through or applied salt to de-ice as you see in the center of the street with the picture.

 

[Mark S.]

Everyone has different expectations for how their car should "feel" for different driving conditions. For @tabitham72, even though SPORT mode increases throttle response, the key may be the change in steering response. SPORT mode makes it harder to turn the steering wheel, so that may be the "feel" she needs in slippery conditions for things to feel right for her.

 

[point78]

Something that occurred to me is that the manual warns against using SLIPPERY mode on dry pavement. That strongly implies that 4WD is locked automatically. Of course that is NOT the case with SPORT (or NORMAL and ECO).

Somewhere here I mentioned that when we lock the center diff in our '97 RAV4, it noticeably improves traction in snow but it "crabs" -- the rear end has a mind of it's own. It does not always track with the front.

So my theory is that if SLIPPERY mode does lock the center ("4WD lock") it may behave similarly. I'm sure there are YouTube videos about it, I just haven't checked.

I can conform, on the Badlands, SLIPPERY mode does NOT lock the 4WD. it does seem to engage it sooner/more than on NORMAL mode. This is from watching the INTELLIGENT screen that shows torque distribution real time while playing around with the throttle on various snow/ice covered driving. (The road into my house has a steep section with switch backs, and I'm up at 10,000', lots of winter roads to test things out.)

 

[tabitham72]

Update: I live in Minnesota and while this winter has been mild (compared to the last 5) yesterday we got a nasty, slick, snow fall move through making the roads bad. I've lived on a steep hill the past 40 years and my street is one of three in town that can get very ugly if the conditions are right. I have seen as many as 8 vehicles stopped dead on my street and they all had to back down the hill and attempt a different route.

Last night after getting off work (snow plowing and salting) I turned the corner to see someone stopped dead in the middle of the street with the flashers on. A good indication to stay away. I detoured and came out higher on the hill to look down and now see 2 more vehicles stopped behind the first one.

One of the vehicles was a Ford F150 and he came around the first vehicle and up the hill he went obviously in 4x4.

The two cars still left on the hill both chose to back down it and find another route. I decided to test the hill out with the Big Bend and see just how good it was. I went up the hill two times and stopped in 6 locations which appeared to be the worse with obvious tires marks spinning and sliding on the icy snow mix. I was in 'SLIPPERY MODE' and the Bronco Sport never gave a hint of slip from any of the 6 complete stops I made facing up the hill.

The tires are stock with 8K on them. While my first post shown way above, I was somewhat disappointed on how I perceived the Bronco Sport handled on icy roads I am changing my opinion. This thing is a winner. The picture(s) I've posted are about nine hours after the event. The plows had NOT been through or applied salt to de-ice as you see in the center of the street with the picture.

Let me make sure I let everyone know, my driving experience is on a highway with a a 60 mile round trip through the country, so the sport mode worked for me in that sort of driving condition. I will not use slippery on a road like that, however I have used slippery on roads around my house from a standstill up a road similar to the one mentioned above, without any problems. I think slippery is more for a starting point and roads driven where your speed is limited to 10-15 mph with stop and go. But on a highway with other vehicles up and down some Streep hills where the limit is 45-55 mph the sport mode worked for me, it allowed me to keep up with other vehicles of course not driving at 45mph but at a reasonable speed allowing me to keep the Lower gear when I needed it, especially down some of the hills we have here. I guess everyone’s experience may be different than mine, but after finding a better drive mode then when I posted my concerns I wanted to share my experience using the sport mode. Not to say I will never use slippery mode, It may have been a mistake on my part, because I will use it on stop and go and short roads with inclines but not on the highways. Again thank you everyone for your experiences, I guess we are just trying to figure this little guy out. Not so disappointed anymore, or wishing I still had my RAV4. Looking forward to more time driving and understanding all the drive modes. We have another storm tomorrow, so won’t have to wait too long. ?

 

[tabitham72]

Found this video, helped me to understand a little more as well.

 

[Mark S.]

I can conform, on the Badlands, SLIPPERY mode does NOT lock the 4WD. it does seem to engage it sooner/more than on NORMAL mode.

And this is the primary reason (I believe) for the proscription against using SLIPPERY mode on dry pavement.

 

[Mark S.]

Let me make sure I let everyone know, my driving experience is on a highway with a a 60 mile round trip through the country

I assume that the road is not snow or ice covered for the entire round trip. If that's the case I wouldn't use SLIPPERY mode for that either, mainly because the manual says not to use it on dry pavement.

 

[sajohnson]

I can conform, on the Badlands, SLIPPERY mode does NOT lock the 4WD. it does seem to engage it sooner/more than on NORMAL mode. This is from watching the INTELLIGENT screen that shows torque distribution real time while playing around with the throttle on various snow/ice covered driving. (The road into my house has a steep section with switch backs, and I'm up at 10,000', lots of winter roads to test things out.)

Thanks Point. Yep, that makes sense.

I am still curious about Ford's warning not to use SLIPPERY mode on dry, hard pavement though.

I'm not doubting your observation, but rather, questioning Ford's warning. Since SLIPPERY mode is essentially just a more sensitive NORMAL mode (four-wheel drive mode is NOT locked) the road surface should not matter.

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