Recall Work Failed

[Mark S.]

Agree with all that. I’m surmising that a battery too far gone cannot be salvaged after recall 24S24 is completed but that may imply there will be future cases as new batteries age, the recalls fix will not prevent ASS from engaging then the vehicle will not restart.

just have to wait and see the long term ramifications of the recall.

The software should never allow the ASS to shut down the engine if the battery cannot support a restart. It's my contention that's the primary purpose of this recall. If it's still happening then the recall did not fix the primary problem.

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[Dude]

The software should never allow the ASS to shut down the engine if the battery cannot support a restart. It's my contention that's the primary purpose of this recall. If it's still happening then the recall did not fix the primary problem.

What’s happening is the battery voltage is dropping quickly on the restart likely that is due now to batteries that are too far gone and need to be replaced. (See Post #72, https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/5-23-2024-recall-24s24-on-hold-as-of-5-24-2024-hold-is-lifted.11399/post-197071).
Ford may need to tweak the calibrations again so you may well be right for the corner cases.
Ford’s ASS works in other vehicles so could be something is undersized in the Bronco Sport.
This is all just conjecture on our parts.

I’d like to see more data before declaring the recall didn’t fix the primary problem, so far is just a few cases we’ve seen and we do not know how stressed their batteries were.

I 100% agree with you the current status is highly concerning.

What I think Ford should have done as part of the recall is to replace all batteries say 2 years old or older for no cost even if the vehicle was out of warranty.

 

[sinbuster007]

so now that brings up another question....
if the battery is then replaced after the program update should it reset and be ok?
would the new battery fix the problem or is the problem still happening?
also, if the battery drops low enough to cause the "new" upgrade to fail then what prevents this from happening 2+years down the road when the "new" battery starts to get low?

my co-worker has a 22 BS BB and he is taking it in for recall tomm (thurs) so i will try and stay updated with him as to any issues he might/might not have.
seems to me there are more questions that are not answered here than we are getting....
if this is truly an isolated incident... or if there is more to the programming we are not getting....

 

[Dude]

so now that brings up another question....
if the battery is then replaced after the program update should it reset and be ok?
would the new battery fix the problem or is the problem still happening?
also, if the battery drops low enough to cause the "new" upgrade to fail then what prevents this from happening 2+years down the road when the "new" battery starts to get low?

if this is truly an isolated incident... or if there is more to the programming we are not getting....

When a new battery is installed, the Battery Sensor Reset (Battery Management System (BMS) Reset) procedure should be performed. This procedure is in the Owners Manual.

Recall 24S24 with its updated BCM and PCM Calibration might help prevent battery sulfation from occurring or may greatly reduce this (read about battery sulfation here: https://www.crownbattery.com/news/sulfation-and-battery-maintenance).
Some owners use a battery maintainer to help the battery keep a full charge and some owners drive their vehicles often enough to achieve the same.

We don’t know yet how well recall 24s24 works. I’ve predicted it may take about a year or more as old batteries fail and are replaced with new in order to gather more data.

Regarding “if there is more to the programming we are not getting”, we know very little about the programming.

 

[João Leme]

The software should never allow the ASS to shut down the engine if the battery cannot support a restart. It's my contention that's the primary purpose of this recall. If it's still happening then the recall did not fix the primary problem.

What’s happening is the battery voltage is dropping quickly on the restart likely that is due now to batteries that are too far gone and need to be replaced. (See Post #72, https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/5-23-2024-recall-24s24-on-hold-as-of-5-24-2024-hold-is-lifted.11399/post-197071).
Ford may need to tweak the calibrations again so you may well be right for the corner cases.
Ford’s ASS works in other vehicles so could be something is undersized in the Bronco Sport.
This is all just conjecture on our parts.

I’d like to see more data before declaring the recall didn’t fix the primary problem, so far is just a few cases we’ve seen and we do not know how stressed their batteries were.

I 100% agree with you the current status is highly concerning.

What I think Ford should have done as part of the recall is to replace all batteries say 2 years old or older for no cost even if the vehicle was out of warranty.

I agree with you both. Let me share my situation and please share with me your opinion:

I have a BS here in Brazil (same as Badland Version) produced in same Mexico plant and delivered new to me in April 2023. 1 year later I got the recall in local dealer (may/24). After that I experienced about 6x the ASS failure and also not starting the car at first attempt early in the day.

The ASS failure is like you mentioned. The BS enabled the engine to shut down while I stopped for traffic light and once it was green the engine was dead and with the alert in screen "change to P and press Start to turn on". Today my car is in dealer charging to check if it "fixes" the problem.

It is crazy, a car that new should not need to replace battery, and also it goes back to what you both said: If the car has already the updated version of BCM/PCM Calibration, by the book of what recalls states, it should not be happeneing this situation without a proper alert of low battery in the car or something like that, or even block the ASS to shut down the engine....


In top of that they measured the battery in dealer (prior to try a slow charging) and said to me It was fully charged... and also here (Brazil) the BS warranty is 3 years, but the Battery warranty in only 1 year, and cause of that if it is the case to exchange for a new one they told they will charge me the costs.... Nothing but questions without answears from this situation. zero trust

 

[Mark S.]

it should not be happeneing this situation without a proper alert of low battery in the car or something like that, or even block the ASS to shut down the engine....

Unfortunately, I don’t have confidence this recall has fixed the issue.

 

[Dude]

@João Leme
Ford stated the calibration changes made for the recall will prevent Auto Start/Stop from engaging when the battery is not sufficient to allow an automatic restart. Given that, we can state that Recall 24S24 has failed to prevent all issues with Auto Start/Stop.

This is based on owners reports after Recall 24S24 was completed on their vehicle which includes at least the following:

1. Reports where the owner was driving, came to a stop with Auto Start Stop enabled and the vehicle failed to restart automatically.

However, it was not made clear how damaged the battery might have been and if the dealership had performed any testing on the battery prior to performing Recall 24S24.

Owners should insist the dealership send the defective battery to Ford for analysis of the battery along with a description of the failure condition following Recall 24S24.

Owners in the USA can file a report with NHTSA and provide a description of the failure condition following Recall 24S24.

 

[Dude]

It also might be the case that Recall 24S24 is unable to handle all corner cases with lack of sufficient charge in the battery that prevents Auto Start/Stop from engaging correctly in all cases.

It is very common for battery voltage to appear fine for example with the engine off under auto start/stop, then suddenly degrade to the point the vehicle won’t start when a load is applied (e.g. upon restarting the vehicle).

“Voltage can appear fine until the vehicle’s battery has a load on it, which is when it plummets and doesn’t return to the normal range”

https://www.midtronics.com/blog/top-3-misconceptions-in-battery-diagnostics/ (https://www.midtronics.com/blog/top-3-misconceptions-in-battery-diagnostics/)

Owners can simply use any of the available methods that disable Auto Start/Stop.

 

[sajohnson]

My wife is at the dealer having the recall done right now.

I asked her to make sure they test battery health. I have a load tester but I imagine their tester is more accurate.

I've been keeping track of battery voltage for about 3 weeks, so I'll have a 'before' reference to compare to. With a couple exceptions it's been 12.60 +/- 0.02V.

 

[Dude]

Unfortunately, I don’t have confidence this recall has fixed the issue.

Recall 24S24 does not state the recall has fixed the issue. Reading the description literally indicates to me that the recall provides an improved detection of 12V battery SOC.

And everything else in the recall fix depends on an accurate 12V battery SOC however the recall states the SOC detection is “improved”.

Is it possible your expection that the issue is fixed is above what the recall states? The recall might have greatly reduced the issue but it does not state the issue is 100% fixed.

Here is the wording, I numbered the items for clarity and included the link:

The update BCM calibrations will provide
1. improved detection of 12V battery SOC during drive cycles,
2. inhibit auto stop/start in the event of a low SOC, and
3. provide notification to the driver if the battery is degraded.

The updated PCM calibrations will increase the alternator output threshold to maintain vehicle operation if a low 12V battery SOC is detected during a drive cycle.

link: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RCLRPT-24V267-6161.PDF

 

[Mark S.]

Recall 24S24 does not state the recall has fixed the issue. Reading the description literally indicates to me that the recall provides an improved detection of 12V battery SOC.

And everything else in the recall fix depends on an accurate 12V battery SOC however the recall states the SOC detection is “improved”.

Is it possible your expection that the issue is fixed is above what the recall states? The recall might have greatly reduced the issue but it does not state the issue is 100% fixed.

Here is the wording, I numbered the items for clarity and included the link:

The update BCM calibrations will provide
1. improved detection of 12V battery SOC during drive cycles,
2. inhibit auto stop/start in the event of a low SOC, and
3. provide notification to the driver if the battery is degraded.

The updated PCM calibrations will increase the alternator output threshold to maintain vehicle operation if a low 12V battery SOC is detected during a drive cycle.

link: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RCLRPT-24V267-6161.PDF

The recall has clearly failed numbers 2 & 3.

 

[Dude]

The recall has clearly failed numbers 2 & 3.

2 and 3 depended on an accurate 12V battery SOC and #1 states it’s just an improved SOC which is a weak adjective.

question for you - other Ford vehicles have Auto Start/Stop and some models (Edge?) and could be relatively similar in the Auto Start/Stop components (IDK).

Except for maverick… Have you heard of similar Auto Start/Stop issues in other Ford vehicles or is the Bronco Sport and Maverick the only Ford models having these ASS issues?

 

[sajohnson]

Recall complete. Battery health is good -- little 'meter' on printout is maxed out. The voltage at the time was 12.69V -- but it had been recently driven.

I will start a new thread for this but, when the tech pulled the Badlands out of the shop, he noticed a warning on the dash: "Transmission Not In Park." My wife told him that she sees that warning every time she is going under 5 mph (she hadn't mentioned it to me). She just hits "OK" and that clears it.

She said the tech was very interested in it, and wants her to bring it back before our warranty times out in March. Apparently he's never seen this issue before. Initially, he was afraid the recall recalibration had caused it. He took it for a test drive and said he saw the same thing she reported -- the warning disappears above 5 mph.

Update: Battery voltage immediately after returning from dealer was 12.56V (with the usual loads still on). Now, about 3 hours later, it has bounced back to 12.71V. Prior to getting the recall work done, the voltage would typically be closer to 12.6V. So far, so good.

 

[Mark S.]

My wife told him that she sees that warning every time she is going under 5 mph (she hadn't mentioned it to me). She just hits "OK" and that clears it.

That's not right. This warning appears in my car if I put it in drive without my seatbelt on. My guess is it has something to do with that.

 

[sajohnson]

That's not right. This warning appears in my car if I put it in drive without my seatbelt on. My guess is it has something to do with that.

Thanks Mark!

Ours behaves like yours -- the seatbelt not buckled and/or a door not closed all the way triggers the warning. Other than this problem, the Badlands has been trouble-free.

What makes this problem so unusual is that the warning only comes on below 5 mph.. If the cause was a bad seatbelt or door switch the warning would be displayed regardless of speed.

I need to find all of the ways that warning can be turned on.

BTW -- I started another thread for this topic:
https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/transmission-not-in-park-warning-on-dash-below-5-mph.11726/

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