Is the end nigh for Ford's EVs?

[Mark S.]

Ford has cut the price on its 2023 Mustang Mach-E from between $3100 and $8100, depending on the model. Desperation?

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2024/02/20/ford-mustang-mach-e-price-lower/72661435007/

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[Dude]

I read it’s to make space to sell the 2024s
It’s a short term problem for Ford and other domestic auto manufacturers

However … Chine is setting up suppliers in Mexico, and likely it will not be long before Americans are buying Chinese EVs and some are anticipated to qualify for American tax payer funded EV credits. Imagine being a taxpayer and funding EV credits to Chinese auto manufacturers

What will happen to American automakers.

 

[BourbonRunner]

Ford has cut the price on its 2023 Mustang Mach-E from between $3100 and $8100, depending on the model. Desperation?

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2024/02/20/ford-mustang-mach-e-price-lower/72661435007/

As a stock holder I read that as "Ford is now losing between 39K and 44K on each Mach E sold."

 

[KidWiff]

As a stock holder I read that as "Ford is now losing between 39K and 44K on each Mach E sold."

No need to worry... i'm sure there will be a bailout somewhere in the future. It's only money...

 

[o0260o]

I read it’s to make space to sell the 2024s
It’s a short term problem for Ford and other domestic auto manufacturers

However … Chine is setting up suppliers in Mexico, and likely it will not be long before Americans are buying Chinese EVs and some are anticipated to qualify for American tax payer funded EV credits. Imagine being a taxpayer and funding EV credits to Chinese auto manufacturers

What will happen to American automakers.

We had a Chinese built EV on sale for a couple years now. Polestar (Volvo ((Geely)) is made in China and doesnt qualify for the tax break. China makes more cars than all other other countries combined and locally they have 30% market share for EVs. It's silly to assume they don't know what they are doing.

 

[Dude]

We had a Chinese built EV on sale for a couple years now. Polestar (Volvo ((Geely)) is made in China and doesnt qualify for the tax break. China makes more cars than all other other countries combined and locally they have 30% market share for EVs. It's silly to assume they don't know what they are doing.

They know what they are doing … putting auto manufacturers out of business

American tax dollars should not go to pay for Chinese EVs as tax credits.

 

[o0260o]

They know what they are doing … putting auto manufacturers out of business

American tax dollars should not go to pay for Chinese EVs as tax credits.

They are not. But our tax dollars shouldn't be used to incentivize cars anyways. EV or not.
Oh well.

 

[coopny]

The changes to the tax credit, the Mach-E does not qualify. This is the obvious result...

 

[Dude]

They are not. But our tax dollars shouldn't be used to incentivize cars anyways. EV or not.
Oh well.

Stand by and watch what happens with EVs brought in from Mexico (over next few years)

Here is one article on the topic and other articles cover the likelihood of American EV tax credits applicably to Chinese EVs from Mexico

https://fortune.com/2024/02/24/chinese-carmakers-evs-mexico-back-door-threat-american-automotive-sector/

 

[BayBrownBronco]

Ford's just reacting to the "First Wave of EV Rejection" in the US. And frankly they've been doing a pretty good job of remaining flexible, witnessing their many models and production builds for hybrids. Half of Maverick sales are now hybrid, and Ford's planning to radically boost F-150 Hybrid production this year. Hybrids are well-accepted by US buyers and Ford's well-positioned today, to capitalize on that. Toyota has a similar approach and prospects for continued success in the US, and witness the recent projection by their leaders that EV's will *never* be the dominant powertrain type for US markets.

No one can predict; but I believe we still have two more major waves incoming, of the "EV rejection" phenomenon - at least in the US. The first wave was consumers rejecting them on sticker price and charging/range issues. The second wave will be much more about the systemic charging problem. If EV's ever became mainstream, owning a major share of the US commuter fleet, we'd need MILLIONS of EV chargers just about everywhere in the country - grocery stores, apartment buildings, 70+ year old single family homes with old electrical service panels and ancient local power distribution networks, and commercial office buildings everywhere.

The third wave of rejection will be after more buyers have had an EV for 2-3 years, and get a good solid clear picture of all their shortcomings. Shorter tire and suspension damper life, range limitations in anything other than mild spring weather, range reductions after two years of ownership, vulnerability to crime as you sit in one waiting at a public charger, high insurance costs (you can total an EV just by jumping a curb wrong!) and horrific resale value due to the above. And this doesn't even consider the cost impacts on all our infrastructure - heavy new investments needed in high-voltage power generation and distribution; stronger highways and highway guard rails due to the extreme curb weights of EV's; and rebuilding many/most car parking decks - again due to all the weight. And how to recycle all those millions of 3000 lb lithium batteries?

All this needs some thought and the future for US EV's is not bright - despite whatever tricks and ploys Chinese carmakers try (oh and good luck to our politicians, if they ignore the reactions of the UAW, Teamsters etc, to allowing mass numbers of Chinese-Mexican cheap imports). Even if our media doesn't discuss it much, regular folks will.

 

[MoFoCo]

Tesla enjoyed strong sales for the first 10 years because they were the first viable long-range EV to market. Now they face competition from the legacy automakers and they have to drop their prices. Also the supply chain caught up (mostly) post-COVID, interest rates skyrocketed (reducing demand), and people are no longer stuck at home shopping for cars with stimulus money. So, Ford's EV challenges are due to an industry-wide market correction compounded with pricing pressure from Tesla.

We've owned a short-range EV for over 6 years. It suits our daily driving habits very well and it's been incredibly inexpensive to own. Energy cost is 1/2 our Bronco and 1/4 our Transit. Yes it eats tires, we have gone through 2 sets in 70,000 miles, small price to pay for instant grin-inducing torque. Maybe in 3-5 years we will trade it and the Bronco for a long-range AWD EV.

As far as taxpayer-funded incentives going to Chinese EVs built in Mexico, well that sucks and it's the reality of our post-NAFTA economy. I'm sure the UAW is paying very close attention to the matter, and with Biden in office they are in a favorable position to influence the matter.

 

[rms34208]

Ford has cut the price on its 2023 Mustang Mach-E from between $3100 and $8100, depending on the model. Desperation?

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2024/02/20/ford-mustang-mach-e-price-lower/72661435007/

Fords error was in as always Not listening to the Public and dealerships.EV,s are currently expensive and therefore a limited market. If you check out the advanced technology of the Nio which has an EV capable of 600 miles of range And are putting in place in China battery exchange in less than a minute . Toyota and Mazda took a wait and see approach with Toyota advancing its Hybrid power train into nearly every model it builds and in 2025 100% of Camry models will be Hybrid. Ford has placed too many eggs into the basket of the F150 Lightning truck trying to be first to market only to be embarrassed ( 2024. Models are on hold because of limited sales and Quality issues) and the Mach E is Beautiful but not a value at current pricing as well as 50% depreciation in first year. I believe in EV Tech but it only makes sense for commercial vehicle because of the ability to depreciate and reduced expense of maintenance as for the rest of us maybe someday but I’d rather see a full lineup of hybrid models by Ford.

 

[wireman]

Ford has cut the price on its 2023 Mustang Mach-E from between $3100 and $8100, depending on the model. Desperation?

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2024/02/20/ford-mustang-mach-e-price-lower/72661435007/

I think so. Ford isn't the only one in a pickle. Numerous brands are scaling back on EV's.

 

[RushMan]

Tesla enjoyed strong sales for the first 10 years because they were the first viable long-range EV to market. Now they face competition from the legacy automakers and they have to drop their prices. Also the supply chain caught up (mostly) post-COVID, interest rates skyrocketed (reducing demand), and people are no longer stuck at home shopping for cars with stimulus money. So, Ford's EV challenges are due to an industry-wide market correction compounded with pricing pressure from Tesla.

We've owned a short-range EV for over 6 years. It suits our daily driving habits very well and it's been incredibly inexpensive to own. Energy cost is 1/2 our Bronco and 1/4 our Transit. Yes it eats tires, we have gone through 2 sets in 70,000 miles, small price to pay for instant grin-inducing torque. Maybe in 3-5 years we will trade it and the Bronco for a long-range AWD EV.

As far as taxpayer-funded incentives going to Chinese EVs built in Mexico, well that sucks and it's the reality of our post-NAFTA economy. I'm sure the UAW is paying very close attention to the matter, and with Biden in office they are in a favorable position to influence the matter.

The UAW thinks that they can influence Mexicon auto workers, even though they have their own workers' union.
https://fordauthority.com/2024/02/uaw-announces-project-to-support-mexican-autoworkers/

 

[Dude]

Stand by and watch what happens with EVs brought in from Mexico (over next few years)

Here is one article on the topic and other articles cover the likelihood of American EV tax credits applicably to Chinese EVs from Mexico

https://fortune.com/2024/02/24/chinese-carmakers-evs-mexico-back-door-threat-american-automotive-sector/

Here is another article (if you can access the link) detailing how China can sell its EVs in the US (and are already being sold in Mexico).

The link to the full article might not be accessible to you without a subscription to WSJ or to Apple News.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/will-china-drive-its-electric-cars-in-from-mexico-evs-usmca-trade-bd66e836

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