[RECALL] 25V46 (NHTSA) / 25S76 (Ford) - Fuel Injectors MY21-24 1.5L I3 Engine

[coopny]

Does the 2.0L use the same injectors?

Why is this an issue with only the 1.5L and will this migrate to the 2.0L also?

The 2.0L I4 Turbo in the Badlands/First Edition/Heritage Limited uses a different injector part K2GZ-9F593-A which, to all visible accounts, has never been subject to a recall.

Even if the injector part was the same (which it isn't), it's possible other aspects of engine or related part design could contribute to injector cracking.

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[jkernitzki]

Keep in mind the BS has now had four fundamentally different motors: Dragon 1.5 and 2.0, and MPC 1.5 and 2.0. For all the apparent similarities, there are some significant differences between family and displacement. Even identical parts between them will behave and respond differently in the different assemblies.

This is why I’m glad I’m not a Ford engineer.

 

[Me3]

Correct, but I do want to emphasize for any 1.5L owners, get this new recall done when available. Use mobile service if you don't feel like going to the dealership. I do that for these software recalls and tip the guy a few bucks for saving me the convenience of driving to the dealership and waiting.

Ford is including the software component of this recall as a first step (when available), even on vehicles that have had updated software for prior fuel injector recalls, which means whatever detection in prior software versions have had shortcomings. Having the updated software is your best chance at preventing an underhood fire on the slight chance that you have a fuel injector crack and it leaks a substantial amount of fuel (the software is intended to try to detect a substantial leak and then put the vehicle in limp mode to reduce the flow rate of fuel and inform you to get the vehicle serviced ASAP).

I do want to emphasize - Ford did not issue this as a "stop driving" recall, and from what I'm reading, there's only a single vehicle report Ford is aware of where the vehicle had the prior software and drain tube recalls done where a cracked fuel injector conclusively led to an underhood fire. You should not consider your vehicle unsafe to drive, but the newer software recall will provide extra peace of mind and safety margin as Ford figures out the final fix.

Lastly, the one thing that it would probably not be paranoid to pay some attention to, as far as I've seen from online video, the drain tube appears to be by the front left (driver side in North America) tire. If you see fluid there wherever you park regularly (I wouldn't be going crazy checking every time you park the car in a parking lot), it may be worth checking if the fluid smells like gasoline. Or just having your dealer examine it...

Coopny, does fuel from the drain tube exit above or to the side of the felt cardboard underbody protector? If it drips onto the felt it will likely be absorbed and not show any drips on the ground, unless it’s gushing out of a cracked injector. A person should be able to smell the fuel though, which will advise you not to drive your vehicle and get it in for inspection.

 

[coopny]

Coopny, does fuel from the drain tube exit above or to the side of the felt cardboard underbody protector? If it drips onto the felt it will likely be absorbed and not show any drips on the ground, unless it’s gushing out of a cracked injector. A person should be able to smell the fuel though, which will advise you not to drive your vehicle and get it in for inspection.

Based on the video @Mark S. posted here for the Escape in 2023 in the last minute or so, the drain tube is not behind/obstructed by the felt and goes straight to the air/ground:

If they allowed the tube to drain on / behind the felt, it'd be pretty pointless... pooling fuel into an absorbent surface...

 

[wireman]

Paragraph 4 says it all. Another 1/2 billion dollars lost.

https://www.motor1.com/news/766213/ford-bronco-sport-recall-2025/

 

[rocks]

Tha

Paragraph 4 says it all. Another 1/2 billion dollars lost.

https://www.motor1.com/news/766213/ford-bronco-sport-recall-2025/

Recalls are killing Ford both in the pocket and in sales.
Add in that Ford lost $5.5B on the EV scam and is still losing thousands on every EV sale.

 

[coopny]

Ford is absolutely being dragged along by NHTSA on the fact that, as I have stated in earlier threads here, the drain tube and the software limp mode are band aids to the problem of the fuel injectors actually cracking. I believe they should be in all 1.5L vehicles and add safety margin, but that NHTSA is 100% in correct in saying that there's not an actual remedy to the problem of fuel injectors cracking.

Now after NHTSA saying in April 2024 that the fixes are inadequate Ford has to offer something to more of the 1.5L BS/Escape owner population while they figure out an actual fix.

Recalls are killing Ford both in the pocket and in sales.
Add in that Ford lost $5.5B on the EV scam and is still losing thousands on every EV sale.

Calling Ford losing money on EVs making EVs a "scam" is myopic. Entering a new propulsion type for vehicles is extremely expensive with a lot of upfront cost. When Ford developed the C2 platform (cost not public) over 8 years and the first few Ford Focus cars rolled off the assembly line nobody at Ford was saying that it was a "loss" versus the development cost.

Or when Bombardier spent over 5 billion developing the Cseries (now the A220/A230), nobody said that Bombardier had lost tens of millions per aircraft when they sold the first few.

It's actually a common part of a business school Marketing simulation called markstrat where you compete as management teams selling a generic product (the "dimensions" are evocative of CD or MP3 players). If you eye the market research, you realize that the established market (sonite) is much bigger than the new market (vodite), and you will lose money when you enter the vodite market for a few "periods" (years, months, it's generic, the sim is generally run weekly to the next period) - but by the end of the sim, the vodite market dwarfs the sonite one, and if you were a management team that fell for complacency or just iterating in the existing market, you will be way behind your peers.

Kodak Eastman fell victim to the same problem. Kodak invented the first digital camera in 1975 - but they feared to promote it because they saw it as cannibalizing to their role as a chemical company, making and processing film. Indeed digital cameras cannibalized film/film camera sales, but rather than Kodak cannibalizing themselves and keeping the sales, everyone else ate their lunch until they went bankrupt in 2012.

Ford is pivoting strategy to make electric more appealing in combo technologies:
Ford is also releasing more hybrid-electric cars and electric vehicles with small gas generators that can charge the battery and extend their range, offering up to 700 miles on a charge.

I think these are smart interim moves, these technologies remove a lot of problems with "range anxiety" and make more fuel efficient tech accessible to more consumers.

But the other point from the article is the Chinese EV makers are running loops around the American ones right now. You have to spend money to make money. The alternative is to surrender to the eventual dominance of electric passenger vehicles to China and consign American automakers to eventual irrelevance... with the ICE powertrain being the film camera of the new era.

 

[jkernitzki]

Arguing for EV’s based on lifecycle product development costs is missing the point. At the end of the day it’s about market demand for a product, and without massive government intervention there isn’t sufficient demand for them. Subsidies, tax rebates, and regulatory constraints are all that are propping up the greater EV market. Purely push demand and virtually no pull demand. Telling people what they want has never, and will never work in the long run.

Get governments out of the equation and see what the market truly wants. While there may be a residual market for EV’s, it likely will never approach what most advocates claim.

 

[rocks]

Ford is absolutely being dragged along by NHTSA on the fact that, as I have stated in earlier threads here, the drain tube and the software limp mode are band aids to the problem of the fuel injectors actually cracking. I believe they should be in all 1.5L vehicles and add safety margin, but that NHTSA is 100% in correct in saying that there's not an actual remedy to the problem of fuel injectors cracking.

Now after NHTSA saying in April 2024 that the fixes are inadequate Ford has to offer something to more of the 1.5L BS/Escape owner population while they figure out an actual fix.



Calling Ford losing money on EVs making EVs a "scam" is myopic. Entering a new propulsion type for vehicles is extremely expensive with a lot of upfront cost. When Ford developed the C2 platform (cost not public) over 8 years and the first few Ford Focus cars rolled off the assembly line nobody at Ford was saying that it was a "loss" versus the development cost.

Or when Bombardier spent over 5 billion developing the Cseries (now the A220/A230), nobody said that Bombardier had lost tens of millions per aircraft when they sold the first few.

It's actually a common part of a business school Marketing simulation called markstrat where you compete as management teams selling a generic product (the "dimensions" are evocative of CD or MP3 players). If you eye the market research, you realize that the established market (sonite) is much bigger than the new market (vodite), and you will lose money when you enter the vodite market for a few "periods" (years, months, it's generic, the sim is generally run weekly to the next period) - but by the end of the sim, the vodite market dwarfs the sonite one, and if you were a management team that fell for complacency or just iterating in the existing market, you will be way behind your peers.

Kodak Eastman fell victim to the same problem. Kodak invented the first digital camera in 1975 - but they feared to promote it because they saw it as cannibalizing to their role as a chemical company, making and processing film. Indeed digital cameras cannibalized film/film camera sales, but rather than Kodak cannibalizing themselves and keeping the sales, everyone else ate their lunch until they went bankrupt in 2012.

Ford is pivoting strategy to make electric more appealing in combo technologies:
Ford is also releasing more hybrid-electric cars and electric vehicles with small gas generators that can charge the battery and extend their range, offering up to 700 miles on a charge.

I think these are smart interim moves, these technologies remove a lot of problems with "range anxiety" and make more fuel efficient tech accessible to more consumers.

But the other point from the article is the Chinese EV makers are running loops around the American ones right now. You have to spend money to make money. The alternative is to surrender to the eventual dominance of electric passenger vehicles to China and consign American automakers to eventual irrelevance... with the ICE powertrain being the film camera of the new era.

IMO, the EV push by the Democrats was a scam for so many reasons and the auto manufacturers bit and are losing a fortune just to get Gov't tax incentives. The Biden Administration put billions in a fund to build charging stations and I believe a handful were built.
As far as Ford EV's and hybrids... One has to be leary to buy a Ford EV or hybrid with the recalls and quality control issues. I would never buy an EV and if I would it would be a Tesla. If I went hybrid, it would be a Toyota.
I don't think EVs will be mainstream purchases for decades to come. I'm from NJ and I can tell you there are many cities that have 2,3,4+ apartment homes built right next to each other with only driveway parking for the owners. Others park on the street. Many chargers would have to be on the curb. Not going to happen. The charger would be vandalized and filthy to use and dealing with bad weather doesn't help.
EVs work as a second or third vehicle in housing developments but not in heavily populated areas.

 

[wireman]

Ford is absolutely being dragged along by NHTSA on the fact that, as I have stated in earlier threads here, the drain tube and the software limp mode are band aids to the problem of the fuel injectors actually cracking. I believe they should be in all 1.5L vehicles and add safety margin, but that NHTSA is 100% in correct in saying that there's not an actual remedy to the problem of fuel injectors cracking.

Now after NHTSA saying in April 2024 that the fixes are inadequate Ford has to offer something to more of the 1.5L BS/Escape owner population while they figure out an actual fix.



Calling Ford losing money on EVs making EVs a "scam" is myopic. Entering a new propulsion type for vehicles is extremely expensive with a lot of upfront cost. When Ford developed the C2 platform (cost not public) over 8 years and the first few Ford Focus cars rolled off the assembly line nobody at Ford was saying that it was a "loss" versus the development cost.

Or when Bombardier spent over 5 billion developing the Cseries (now the A220/A230), nobody said that Bombardier had lost tens of millions per aircraft when they sold the first few.

It's actually a common part of a business school Marketing simulation called markstrat where you compete as management teams selling a generic product (the "dimensions" are evocative of CD or MP3 players). If you eye the market research, you realize that the established market (sonite) is much bigger than the new market (vodite), and you will lose money when you enter the vodite market for a few "periods" (years, months, it's generic, the sim is generally run weekly to the next period) - but by the end of the sim, the vodite market dwarfs the sonite one, and if you were a management team that fell for complacency or just iterating in the existing market, you will be way behind your peers.

Kodak Eastman fell victim to the same problem. Kodak invented the first digital camera in 1975 - but they feared to promote it because they saw it as cannibalizing to their role as a chemical company, making and processing film. Indeed digital cameras cannibalized film/film camera sales, but rather than Kodak cannibalizing themselves and keeping the sales, everyone else ate their lunch until they went bankrupt in 2012.

Ford is pivoting strategy to make electric more appealing in combo technologies:
Ford is also releasing more hybrid-electric cars and electric vehicles with small gas generators that can charge the battery and extend their range, offering up to 700 miles on a charge.

I think these are smart interim moves, these technologies remove a lot of problems with "range anxiety" and make more fuel efficient tech accessible to more consumers.

But the other point from the article is the Chinese EV makers are running loops around the American ones right now. You have to spend money to make money. The alternative is to surrender to the eventual dominance of electric passenger vehicles to China and consign American automakers to eventual irrelevance... with the ICE powertrain being the film camera of the new era.

Ford has been dragging their feet on this, putting a ban aid on a gunshot wound.

The cause is bad injectors so find a vendor that will make a quality part and use it.

I just can't understand what the foot dragging by Ford is accomplishing. 2 1/2 years and still no solution. Not to mention the bad press.

This is a singular problem so fix the frickin' thing.

 

[rocks]

Ford has been dragging their feet on this, putting a ban aid on a gunshot wound.

The cause is bad injectors so find a vendor that will make a quality part and use it.

I just can't understand what the foot dragging by Ford is accomplishing. 2 1/2 years and still no solution. Not to mention the bad press.

This is a singular problem so fix the frickin' thing.

When I had my '23 OBX, I knew of the problems and I still bought because of I loved the retro design and size. I bit and was so sorry I did in a short time. I has two Lincolns with the 2.0L without any issues but really didn't need a Badlands and when I bought the '23, the Badlands had ridiculous markups. A OBX with a 2.0L would be a perfect vehicle for me but I do love the Badlands.
I never had any confidence with the 1.5L. I also didn't like the little vibration at stop lights. The 2.0L has no vibration. Also the worry of the BS dying on the road which has posts about that. Water pumps, battery issues, fuel injectors etc.
I believe the new 1.5s don't have a belt driven oil pump which is a good thing. The 1.5L is out 4 years now and still having recalls. No excuse for that.
The 2.0L and $38K OTD for an over $45K got me into a leftover, color I wanted Badlands.

 

[coopny]

The cause is bad injectors so find a vendor that will make a quality part and use it.

The problem is not just a "quality part", there are numerous ways for a part to fail that don't have to do with the quality of its fabrication.

Of course a failure can be that, if the design is defective and the manufacturer refuses to fix it. An example - Until the Xbox 360 S models, Microsoft kept putting out way too hot consoles that had lead free solder (EU Reduction of Hazardous substances [RoHS]) with a lower melting point. Combine that with Microsoft at the time not being a hardware company and he consoles would heat to the point of the solder flowing, then contract when it cooled. Microsoft kept in their expanded service for it just sending the consoles to Jabil circuit who would "repair" them, but not fix the underlying issue of the heat causing the solder to flow. So they spent billions to replace defective shit with refurbished defective shit - because it was cheaper than giving people new boards that didn't have the defect.

In this case with Ford, it's not really clear that there's some underlying design defect that Ford is refusing to cover up, or that the parts are low quality. The 1.5L injector V2 reduced the knurl diameter (similar to Microsoft reducing the CPU/GPU iteratively from 90nm each to 90nm/65nm, 65nm both, 65nm on a single die to reduce heat - it prolonged console life before failure, but it still didn't fix the underlying problem in the 360 consoles).

There are numerous stresses that can lead to fuel injectors cracking beyond poor quality of the injectors themselves. Ford in the latest update to NHTSA points to corrosion being found as a cause in April/May 2025, but even that is something that has multiple causes. Water or other contaminants entering the fuel can cause corrosion. That could be exacerbated or caused by either a cause external to the fuel injector themselves, the design of the fuel injectors (even if they are manufactured within high tolerances/quality of however Ford specified them), or a combination thereof.

Where I see smoke but not fire (yet) is that NHTSA had to drag Ford into researching the fuel injector failure cause. I fall short of calling fire because Ford seems to have caved on the argument that the drain tube/software + customer satisfaction if the injectors are found cracked, and that they did research which pointed towards corrosion.

What's possible is that there is a much more expensive upstream cause that aren't the fuel injectors themselves, but some other part. The prior generation of 2.0L I4 ecoboosts (NOT the twin scroll 2.0L I4 ecoboosts in all Bronco Sports with a 2.0L engine! - this was introduced in 2020 in other Ford models and was redesigned to avoid this issue) had a flaw where the "open deck" design of the engine block/head gasket combo designed to improve cooling but instead allowed coolant intrusion. They redesigned the block to prevent this. It wasn't that the block itself was manufactured substandard, it's that as the design specified it had a flaw Ford didn't anticipate.

Anyways - NHTSA is right to make Ford get to the bottom of the cause of the actual fuel injector failures, and not saying "well if they do leak fuel there's now a tray/hose that hopefully leads fuel away from hot parts and software that hopefully detects the fuel leak".

 

[Stircrazy]

my recall notice just appeared on my ford pass today. its the only recall my BS has been subject to except for the one for the body control module or which ever module it was.

 

[Dude]

Paragraph 4 says it all. Another 1/2 billion dollars lost.

https://www.motor1.com/news/766213/ford-bronco-sport-recall-2025/

Article states:

“Of the nearly 700,000 vehicles recalled, Ford estimates 0.3% are affected. Ford stopped using the faulty injectors in the Escape in December 2022 and in February 2024 in the Bronco Sport”

I guess “faulty injectors” vindicates all the owners vilified for stating the 1.5L fuel injectors were faulty and could crack or corrode or be caused to corrode by some other mechanism. Oh wait, no… it’s the article author that called the fuel injectors faulty not Ford saying that.

it will be interesting to see the final outcome on what parts do get replaced… and by final maybe not the next repair but the actual final last outcome as we’ve seen a handful of attempts so far.

No one on this forum has the complete facts on the root cause of the problem nor what the final hardware and software solution will be. Just guesses but they provide interesting observations by owners.

 

[wireman]

Article states:

“Of the nearly 700,000 vehicles recalled, Ford estimates 0.3% are affected. Ford stopped using the faulty injectors in the Escape in December 2022 and in February 2024 in the Bronco Sport”

I guess “faulty injectors” vindicates all the owners vilified for stating the 1.5L fuel injectors were faulty and could crack or corrode or be caused to corrode by some other mechanism. Oh wait, no… it’s the article author that called the fuel injectors faulty not Ford saying that.

it will be interesting to see the final outcome on what parts do get replaced… and by final maybe not the next repair but the actual final last outcome as we’ve seen a handful of attempts so far.

No one on this forum has the complete facts on the root cause of the problem nor what the final hardware and software solution will be. Just guesses but they provide interesting observations by owners.

At some point it will happen. We don't know all the facts for sure, but Fords initial "fix" was a joke and wasn't an honest attempt to find a good solution for the problem.

It's 2 1/2 years of bad press, $$$ and not a final answer yet. Farley's promise hasn't happened yet.

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