Overheating issue with towing

[sajohnson]

A few key things here that I think need clarifying.

1. You say you have the Heritage Limited but your profile says a 2022 bronco sport. the Heritage packages were introduced with the 2023 models. You also mention having the tow package. Was that factory or did you install a third party tow package? For all models, a third party hitch is limited to only 1500lbs. If you do have the 2023 Heritage Limited with the factory tow package, then 2200lbs is your limit. It seems like that's what you have but double checking.

2. How did you weigh your trailer? Was it just some random scale at a truck stop or did you have it weighed by someone that knows what they are doing? The dry weight plus a full water tank is going to weigh over 1750.


What else do you have on it? Assuming #1 is true you shouldn't be putting more than 80-85% of the capacity. which in this case would be 1760-1870lbs. That's basically the dry weight plus water, so adding anything else to it is inside that grey area between 80-85%, which is likely why you're seeing the results you're seeing. You're tapped out, or possibly a bit over. I would first recommend getting it weighed again from somewhere else and see if they pull the same as your first weighing.

Lastly, even if you're in the 80-85% range, you are pulling a significantly heavy load and it will impact the vehicles driving substantially. If you're within the recommended weight then you should be safe and not dealing with overheating like you are. Check to make sure your coolant system is all in good working order. The tow package should have come with an auxiliary cooler. it's possible this wasn't installed for some reason.

Just curious, where does the 80-85% come from? I've never heard that before.

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[xm41907]

Research the "80/20 rule" regarding tow capacity. It's not an actual regulatory thing but more of a rule of thumb. Some suggest no more than 70% even. Basically, most vehicles while technically can pull something up to their rated amount, they don't do so easily and by not maxing it out you're creating both a safety margin as well as factoring in the load on the tow vehicle's performance. In this particular situation it seems that his BS is definitely having trouble pulling the weight even thought it is clearly well below the max tow capacity of his model.

 

[sajohnson]

Research the "80/20 rule" regarding tow capacity. It's not an actual regulatory thing but more of a rule of thumb. Some suggest no more than 70% even. Basically, most vehicles while technically can pull something up to their rated amount, they don't do so easily and by not maxing it out you're creating both a safety margin as well as factoring in the load on the tow vehicle's performance. In this particular situation it seems that his BS is definitely having trouble pulling the weight even thought it is clearly well below the max tow capacity of his model.

It's always good not to 'push the limits' (with any mechanical or electronic device). The less a trailer weighs, and the less frontal area it has, the better.

That said, mfrs generally include a large safety factor/buffer when establishing specs for tires, hitches, trailer weight, etc. When Ford says "2,200 pounds", there's no doubt they took a worst-case scenario rating and then reduced the weight even further, to all but eliminate any liability they might have.

So while 1,760 lbs. (80% of 2,200) is better than the full GVWR, it should not be necessary to down-rate it further than Ford already has.

The OP said that he has now tried 'sport mode' and that helped a lot. Using manual mode would likely help even more. So it seems like he's happy with the towing performance now, but if he wasn't -- if it was still struggling on grades -- then reducing the weight would definitely be a good idea.

 

[xm41907]

You're right that the manufacturers put in safety margins, but even with those, they are the legal maximum. Most manufacturers, safety organizations, and government agencies all advocate for keeping well under tow capacities and not right at them. As I said, it's a rule of thumb and not a regulation but a quick search online will show that it's highly recommended to not be towing at or near maximum capacity and for many reasons.

 

[sajohnson]

I'm sure that's true. Nothing wrong with being safe/cautious.

I've seen the same thinking with other products as well. Take tires for example -- we know that what's recommended in the mfrs' "load and inflation tables" already has a significant safety factor built in. If they say a tire can carry (say) 2,600 lbs. at 65 psi, we know they have already increased the pressure spec some and/or decreased the load. The tire mfr is not going to recommend loads and pressures that are right on the hairy edge, where if the pressure gauge reads a couple psi high, or the load isn't balanced across the axle, there is going to be a catastrophic failure.

That doesn't mean people should disregard those specs, or exceed them, just that what the mfr recommends is safe -- if for no other reason than avoiding lawsuits.

 

[Uncle Brad]

On thing came to mind: I believe (but may be wrong) that there is a clutch control unit near the center of any Bronco Sport that is responsible for sending power to the rear wheels, which is on all the time. In the Big Bend and Outer Banks, this device is air-cooled. In the Badlands, I think actual coolant is used. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. But if this is true, could this have something to do with it?

My 2024 Big Bend hauls approx 1500' with no real drama, with an aftermarket hitch. But it's flat ground. I concur with the higher octane performance (I use top tier, high octane when asking the little engine to do anything in the heat, including just running the air...) Also get better gas mileage.

My bet is that you don't have a problem, and that your Bronco Sport is operating within its design parameters.

 

[Mark S.]

I don't believe the towing capacity for the 2.0L is based on power limitations. The Escape equipped with the same 2.0L and 8-speed auto as the Badlands is rated to tow 3500lbs. I believe the limit for the Badlands is due to the suspension and drivetrain. The Maverick Tremor (same engine, PTU, twin-clutch rear diff, and similar suspension modifications as the Badlands) is also limited to 2200 lbs. I wouldn't think twice about towing 2200 lbs with my Badlands, but I would fuel up with premium first.

 

[NMhunter]

Thanks for the correction Mark S. I must have posted that before I had my coffee.

 

[Ksnau]

Okay so let me clear this up. In the past couple years I have had three broncos first a 22 bronco sport Badlands that is gone. I also had a 2023 full size bronco that is gone. I am currently driving a 2023 heritage limited which is basically a Badlands with every single option plus the paint job and Wheels. So I do have a 2 L engine. I have the Ford towing package so it's from Ford. It was not added later so my towing limit according to Ford is 2,200 lb. With everything in the trailer it weighs about $1,925 lb I have a 27 gallon water tank which I usually fill up about 3/4 of the way but I still assume that it weighs 240 lb. Besides that, I have one tire my spare because my air compressor for the air suspension is where the spare goes and about 50 lb. Of equipment in there. So it's a little over 100 lb. So that's about 350 lb plus the 1575 dry weight that gets me to about $1,925 lb .

And to MarkS. That's what I thought. I have the same transmission, the same engine as the escape and would think I would even have better cooling with the additional off-road coolant and I don't have that suspension anymore. I'm running full air suspension so you think I'd be fine towing more but I couldn't imagine towing more than a couple hundred lbs more than I am already but I also usually try to go really conservative on cars and don't like pushing that one so I could just be being a pansy and being too cautious But from what I read. It sounds like it's pretty normal.

When It's just normal driving or slight hills I usually go about 65 to 70 and it does that easily. It's whenever I get up the very steep hills back when I was doing 87 octane. It did not like to go over about 50ish mph and if I tried to pass it would almost immediately raise the temperature of the coolant. When I ran 91 octane this weekend, I was able to drive about 60 to 65, even up those gnarly hills and the coolant temperature never raised as an experiment. I tried to pass on the gnarly Hill and that is when the temperature raised to five dots. Luckily I was able to immediately back off and it went back down after a few seconds.

This weekend if I can go camping again or if not in the near future I'm going to put it in sport when I go up the hills and see how that changes it because I want it to rev. Higher in the revenge instead of shifting and staying at 2,000 RPMs because while you have pretty much Max torque from like $2,000 to 5000 RPMs, I feel like it would be beneficial to be higher in RPMs because then the water pump is spinning faster and circulating the coolant faster. But we'll see.

The scale was just a random scale at a truck stop. Honestly, not that worried about the weight because it did exactly what I wanted it to and more this last weekend with the 91 octane this weekend was more about just seeing where the limits were. I normally just go 65 everywhere and it sucks if you get stuck behind me and then on the hills I'll usually try to go about 50 to 60 and then once I get stuck behind a semi. I just don't even bother trying to pass because even on the longest Hill it's another 10 or 15 minutes. Not a big deal to me now that I know.

 

[Ksnau]

I just wanted to post an update. I couldn't remember. I think I used sport last time but only for a little bit of it So I use sport on this trip whenever I was in the steeper hills and it really did work really good. I just had to be careful about throttle application cuz it would want to. It was very aggressive with it but it did hold it in higher RPMs which is what I wanted. But other than that I just keep it normal. It does great. Also, I've only been running premium which is 91 where I'm at here in Arizona when I tow and it has made a huge difference. It's winter right now so it's I think a lot easier on overheating and I haven't been trying to push it. I've been trying to drive a lot more conservative so I haven't had any temperature increases but just from before I know that it has made a huge difference and duh. I should have read the manual and I would have known that. I still think that it's crap though, that it seems like it can overeat so easy and it seems like it happens with all the EcoBoost motors and I'm still pretty sure that a lot of it is the small turbo size and letting it get into really high boost or really low RPO. But for what I'm doing it's working so I'm good.

Also, I am a little pissed because the 2025s I guess they're upping the toe limit and so if I had one of those I could have gotten the slightly larger one that I wanted. That's like a 10 in taller so I could have stood up inside of it and had a little more room now. This one still works really good. Also they have a new or version of it. I'm talking about the clipper ROK 11000. They now have one that has two like smaller beds instead of one big one and it seems to open it up more at least in the pictures.

I'm not sure this is related but I figured I'd put it on this thread with the clipper. 9000 are okay because I'm out in the middle of nowhere. I don't have short power and I don't have a generator and even if I had inverter, I don't think my setup would be powerful enough to run the stock heater or at least for very long. So I was looking a little 12 volt heaters that I could plug in and I bought one off Amazon for like $22 I think and I tried it home and it seemed to blow pretty hot but I didn't do it for very long. Well I was up in Flagstaff and about 20° weather this weekend and let me tell you it didn't do s*** so I'm looking at getting a more powerful unit. I saw one at a truck stop but it said you had to attach it directly to the battery and I was kind of hoping not to have to run any wiring but we'll see. Here's a picture of where I put it in the trailer and I'll put a link to where I bought it off. Amazon but I wouldn't recommend it

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0DFBF5PRH?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

 

[sajohnson]

I just wanted to post an update. I couldn't remember. I think I used sport last time but only for a little bit of it So I use sport on this trip whenever I was in the steeper hills and it really did work really good. I just had to be careful about throttle application cuz it would want to. It was very aggressive with it but it did hold it in higher RPMs which is what I wanted. But other than that I just keep it normal. It does great. Also, I've only been running premium which is 91 where I'm at here in Arizona when I tow and it has made a huge difference. It's winter right now so it's I think a lot easier on overheating and I haven't been trying to push it. I've been trying to drive a lot more conservative so I haven't had any temperature increases but just from before I know that it has made a huge difference and duh. I should have read the manual and I would have known that. I still think that it's crap though, that it seems like it can overeat so easy and it seems like it happens with all the EcoBoost motors and I'm still pretty sure that a lot of it is the small turbo size and letting it get into really high boost or really low RPO. But for what I'm doing it's working so I'm good.

Also, I am a little pissed because the 2025s I guess they're upping the toe limit and so if I had one of those I could have gotten the slightly larger one that I wanted. That's like a 10 in taller so I could have stood up inside of it and had a little more room now. This one still works really good. Also they have a new or version of it. I'm talking about the clipper ROK 11000. They now have one that has two like smaller beds instead of one big one and it seems to open it up more at least in the pictures.

I'm not sure this is related but I figured I'd put it on this thread with the clipper. 9000 are okay because I'm out in the middle of nowhere. I don't have short power and I don't have a generator and even if I had inverter, I don't think my setup would be powerful enough to run the stock heater or at least for very long. So I was looking a little 12 volt heaters that I could plug in and I bought one off Amazon for like $22 I think and I tried it home and it seemed to blow pretty hot but I didn't do it for very long. Well I was up in Flagstaff and about 20° weather this weekend and let me tell you it didn't do s*** so I'm looking at getting a more powerful unit. I saw one at a truck stop but it said you had to attach it directly to the battery and I was kind of hoping not to have to run any wiring but we'll see. Here's a picture of where I put it in the trailer and I'll put a link to where I bought it off. Amazon but I wouldn't recommend it

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0DFBF5PRH?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

Please excuse me if I say anything you are already aware of:

1) It takes a certain amount of BTUs per hour to heat a given space.

2) The number of BTUs/hour required depend on a few factors, like: volume, insulation, and the temp difference between outside and inside.

3) Electric resistance heating takes a large amount of power. A 1,500 watt heater = 5,120 BTU/hour. That may not be enough, but even that one heater will drain a battery very quickly. The Lion lithium batteries we have in our RV have a capacity of just over 1,300Wh. So a typical 1.5kW heater would kill them both in under 2 hours (actually less accounting for inverter inefficiency).

4) Heat pumps are more efficient, but their efficiency drops with the outside temp. Even at their max efficiency they pull too much for batteries.

5) I'd suggest not connecting anything to the chassis/starting battery -- definitely not any kind of heater.

6) Your best bet when there is no shore power and no generator is to use a catalytic propane/LP heater. One pound of propane = 21,600 BTU.

 

[Bucko]

Here is my take after 45 years of towing. First don't scrimp on fuel when towing. Use the best grade you can find and the highest octane. That is the simple fact, it is much more detailed when you get into the subject of fuel. As far as overheating goes; aluminum hates heat, expansion of everything aluminum is much greater than iron. Heat kills so do everything with that in mind. And passing while towing has to be done very selectively, never on a hill unless you have plenty of time to make the pass without getting into the throttle and always downshift.

And as mentioned always use Sport Mode when you pass or, have a strong headwind, or are pulling up a grade. Sport Mode is made not only for fun but is necessary when towing, use it. If you are on the flat and level and have a tailwind Normal Mode will do but watch your speed. If you are trying to keep up with 70 mph traffic then you are asking for problems. You seem to very careful and watching the temp guage like you do is great, little adjustments in throttle and speed make a big difference.

Sometimes it's easy to forget you have a trailer behind you so driving slower is not really a habit unless conditions are perfect. I drive slower and stay to the right and pull over if traffic builds up behind me, it's a habit for me. It sounds like your trailer is a perfect match for the little Bronco but it's still a trailer and you don't have 400 hp to help pull it down the road. I evny you, those ROKs are perfect for the Bronco but take it easy and enjoy the scenery. Your Bronco will be happy. Post a picture of your setup, I like those mini campers and really want to see what they look like behind the little bronco.

If I were towing with a Bronco sport, I would not be passing anything, un less I ate pinto beans.

 

[Ksnau]

Please excuse me if I say anything you are already aware of:

1) It takes a certain amount of BTUs per hour to heat a given space.

2) The number of BTUs/hour required depend on a few factors, like: volume, insulation, and the temp difference between outside and inside.

3) Electric resistance heating takes a large amount of power. A 1,500 watt heater = 5,120 BTU/hour. That may not be enough, but even that one heater will drain a battery very quickly. The Lion lithium batteries we have in our RV have a capacity of just over 1,300Wh. So a typical 1.5kW heater would kill them both in under 2 hours (actually less accounting for inverter inefficiency).

4) Heat pumps are more efficient, but their efficiency drops with the outside temp. Even at their max efficiency they pull too much for batteries.

5) I'd suggest not connecting anything to the chassis/starting battery -- definitely not any kind of heater.

6) Your best bet when there is no shore power and no generator is to use a catalytic propane/LP heater. One pound of propane = 21,600 BTU.

So I think The little mini heater that I bought as well as the bigger ones that I've been looking at are ceramic heaters which I think are more efficient. It says that it pulls 160 w. But yeah I left it in and running overnight and I didn't feel much of a difference but it may have brought the temperature up a few degrees. And yeah it definitely drained the batteries. That was the first time that I got a low battery warning when I woke up. So because I always have the fan running I cracked the side window and I open up the top cover like an inch and I put the fan on its lowest setting just so there's some circulation in there. I'm looking at just getting a small propane heater and since I'll always have that fan running, I feel like it should be safe enough to just do that. And that way I don't have to rush myself on trying to get an inverter and make the stock heater work without shore power or trying to buy a generator that I really don't want to buy.

Also, just so y'all know mine at least that I bought from general RV in Utah came with two AGM Marine batteries that are rated at 100 amp hours and when I was running the lights and refrigerator and fan and everything when it was warmer it didn't even get close to depleting the battery and it does come with 190 w solar. So I think for what I do it's plenty unless I add an inverter and want to be able to turn on the AC or the heater.

Also the solar just that one 190 w roof panel seems to be enough to refill the batteries in less than a day.

Also I did notice that my battery charge when I got up to Flagstaff at the end of the day even though it was plugged into my car and I had didn't have anything on it was showing the battery at like half power. Now I'm not sure that I'm reading all of the screens right, but it has a little battery icon in the corner with up to four bars and I only had two bars and from what I read online the cold weather makes batteries less effective and output less. So that seems to be the reason.

Now if anyone knows my my little solar controller screen it said that right before I went to sleep it said the battery temperature was 51° which is pretty good because outside it was like 20°. But if I were to add some kind of heating element to them if that was possible. Would that help where I could have full battery capacity even in sub freezing temperatures?

 

[sajohnson]

So I think The little mini heater that I bought as well as the bigger ones that I've been looking at are ceramic heaters which I think are more efficient. It says that it pulls 160 w. But yeah I left it in and running overnight and I didn't feel much of a difference but it may have brought the temperature up a few degrees. And yeah it definitely drained the batteries. That was the first time that I got a low battery warning when I woke up. So because I always have the fan running I cracked the side window and I open up the top cover like an inch and I put the fan on its lowest setting just so there's some circulation in there. I'm looking at just getting a small propane heater and since I'll always have that fan running, I feel like it should be safe enough to just do that. And that way I don't have to rush myself on trying to get an inverter and make the stock heater work without shore power or trying to buy a generator that I really don't want to buy.

Also, just so y'all know mine at least that I bought from general RV in Utah came with two AGM Marine batteries that are rated at 100 amp hours and when I was running the lights and refrigerator and fan and everything when it was warmer it didn't even get close to depleting the battery and it does come with 190 w solar. So I think for what I do it's plenty unless I add an inverter and want to be able to turn on the AC or the heater.

Also the solar just that one 190 w roof panel seems to be enough to refill the batteries in less than a day.

Also I did notice that my battery charge when I got up to Flagstaff at the end of the day even though it was plugged into my car and I had didn't have anything on it was showing the battery at like half power. Now I'm not sure that I'm reading all of the screens right, but it has a little battery icon in the corner with up to four bars and I only had two bars and from what I read online the cold weather makes batteries less effective and output less. So that seems to be the reason.

Now if anyone knows my my little solar controller screen it said that right before I went to sleep it said the battery temperature was 51° which is pretty good because outside it was like 20°. But if I were to add some kind of heating element to them if that was possible. Would that help where I could have full battery capacity even in sub freezing temperatures?

All electric resistance heat is ~100% efficient: electric baseboard; portable heaters; toasters; hair dryers; the automotive ones on Amazon with fake flames shooting out of them; "emergency" heat in heat pumps; ceramic heaters, etc.

That is, almost all of the electricity they use is converted to heat. Of course, the type of heat can vary -- convection vs radiant. If a person is generally in one location, radiant heat can be a good choice because it warms objects and bodies, not the air. So the user can be comfortable with a lower room air temp. -- like being near a fire on a chilly night.

If/when you get an inverter, that will not solve the heat problem. Inverters are <100% efficient (sometimes a lot less) and there is simply no way to use batteries to generate enough heat to keep an RV warm for any length of time. Without shore power, a person might need dozens of batteries.

The same is true for A/C. The MS2000 I installed in our RV will start and run the rooftop A/C unit, but it will not run for long on the two 105Ah/1,344Wh LFP batteries. Depending upon the ambient temp, the A/C will pull 12-13 amps at 120V, or up to 1,560 watts. With the loss through the inverter we'd be lucky to run it for 1 to 1-1/2 hours.

Two options that come to mind are propane, or a generator. Propane really is the best choice. There is a guy on one of the RV forums who likes to ski where temps can get down to zero or below. He has a factory/OE propane furnace, but it is only ~50% efficient, so he bought a catalytic heater that's about 99% efficient. That works for him, even in serious winter conditions.

It sounds like you have good ventilation, but just to be clear, the only propane heaters that can be used indoors are the 99%+ efficient ones -- sometimes called 'ventless' heaters.

Cold temps reduce the amount of current a battery can supply, but not its ability to be fully charged (100% SOC). Your 2/4 bar indication had some other cause. Perhaps it was not actually connected to your BS (the connectors can be flaky), or it was but the voltage was too low (for bulk charging it should be 14.4 to 14.6V). Also, those battery monitors in RVs are notorious for being inaccurate. If you want accuracy, you could use something like this:
https://www.victronenergy.com/battery-monitors/smart-battery-shunt

Some lithium batteries have built-in heaters, but they are not necessary for lead-acid (incl. AGM) and of course they would consume power.

You might consider checking out some of the RV forums.

 

[Bucko]

.......

This weekend if I can go camping again or if not in the near future I'm going to put it in sport when I go up the hills and see how that changes it because I want it to rev. Higher in the revenge instead of shifting and staying at 2,000 RPMs because while you have pretty much Max torque from like $2,000 to 5000 RPMs, I feel like it would be beneficial to be higher in RPMs because then the water pump is spinning faster and circulating the coolant faster. But we'll see.

This. Whenever I towed with my F-150, the owners manual stated to disable the overdrive for the same reasons you are stating.

Let us know your results the next time you head out to that camping site route with your load.

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