Oil catch can

SunZmSpark

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I installed one on my BS (1.5L) and removed it after a year. It only collected a small amount of fluid during that time, so I decided it wasn't necessary. I had one installed on my 2017 Mustang 2.3L and collected 3 jars of fluid over a three-year period. It appears that the 1.5L doesn't really need it.
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Major Kong

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I installed one on my BS (1.5L) and removed it after a year. It only collected a small amount of fluid during that time, so I decided it wasn't necessary. I had one installed on my 2017 Mustang 2.3L and collected 3 jars of fluid over a three-year period. It appears that the 1.5L doesn't really need it.
may have been something to do with the level of attitude
mustang appreciable level
bronco sport low to moderate
 

SunZmSpark

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may have been something to do with the level of attitude
mustang appreciable level
bronco sport low to moderate
I always use Top Tier fuel and found that the water level in the fuel seemed worse in the winter months (in my Mustang). I had to empty it once every couple of weeks. In the summer it was only once a month. In the one year, I had it installed on my BS, I only emptied it a few of times and the container had very little fluid in it.
 

Mark S.

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I believe it is worth watching to understand why Direct Injection engines will have issues with dirty/cruddy intake valves over time.
The presenter paints with a broad brush here, and a couple of things he said are not entirely accurate. For example, he strongly implies that manufacturers are switching to port + direct injection "primarily" to prevent valve contamination. That's not true. There are pros and cons for both fuel injection methods, and using them together allows engine designers to get the best of both worlds. Yes, adding port injection to a direct injection system can minimize valve deposits, but that's not the PRIMARY reason for doing so. You can read more in this article from Car & Driver.

Other inaccuracies: valve contamination with direct injection systems is not inevitable; it's not a problem for ALL manufacturers; and it's certainly not a new phenomenon. This article about the subject from AutoObserver was published by Edmunds.com in June of 2011. The authors found that not all direct-injected engines—even in 2011—experienced detrimental valve deposits. Ford's reps claimed it had optimized injection timing to minimize deposits. (I recall a collaborative effort with GM & Ford, but I can't find the article now.) I found the comments from Tony Chick, of European Performance Labs in Stratford, CT to be most illuminating. He discovered that some manufacturers' PCV and EGR systems run much "cleaner" than others, limiting the stuff that causes valve contamination getting back to the intake system.

The authors noted that Ford was so sure of its valve contamination mitigation efforts (remember, this is 2011) that it allowed technicians to publicly tear down one of its direct-injected engines during the Detroit Auto Show:
At the Detroit Auto Show in January [2011], Ford was confident enough about its popular 3.5 liter EcoBoost direct-injection V6 to have technicians tear down an example engine that had accumulated the equivalent of 160K miles through an intentionally abusive regimen of log dragging, high-speed towing and desert racing. When they opened it up before a live audience, they found some light carbon deposits on the valves and pistons, but not enough to affect performance. In fact, the engine showed a loss of just one horsepower afterwards...
To me, the proof (or lack thereof) is in the pudding. If Ford's EcoBoost engines had a widespread problem with valve deposits we would have heard about it by now. The full-sized Bronco is only in its second year of production and there is already an NTSB investigation of its 2.7L engine due to a limited number of engine failures. As it is, the overwhelming majority of hits when you search Google for "ecoboost valve contamination deposits" are forum posts about people installing catch cans to prevent valve deposits and finding "bad stuff" when they empty said can. What you won't find is a lot of owners who've actually experienced valve deposits. If your EcoBoost engine is experiencing valve deposits bad enough to effect driveability there is likely a malfunction (bad EGR or PCV system components) causing it. The "fix" isn't a catch can, it's to repair whatever is causing the issue.

Install a catch can if you like; you may even find some crud in it on occasion. But finding crud in a catch can is not evidence of the need for a catch can or that you would have "eventually" experienced valve contamination without one. I'll worry about valve contamination when a) I get valve deposits, or b) when I read about widespread reports of valve contamination from other owners. As it is, the 2.0L engine in my car has been in production in various forms for more than 10 years. So far so good...
 
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Major Kong

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Install a catch can if you like; you may even find some crud in it on occasion. But finding crud in a catch can is not evidence of the need for a catch can or that you would have "eventually" experienced valve contamination without one. I'll worry about valve contamination when a) I get valve deposits, or b) when I read about widespread reports of valve contamination from other owners. As it is, the 2.0L engine in my car has been in production in various forms for more than 10 years. So far so good...
good read until the catch-can synopsis fell apart at the end

"But finding crud in a catch can is not evidence of the need for a catch can or that you would have "eventually" experienced valve contamination without one" - correct in that it is not evidence but is a key factor in the potential for valve deposits

"I'll worry about valve contamination when a) I get valve deposits"
homeowners insurance - I'll worry about it when a car hits my house
fire insurance - I'll worry about it when my house is on fire
health insurance - I'll worry about it when I'm taking a dirt nap
I consider it an inexpensive one time insurance payment towards risk reduction.
$100 catch can vs $2k valve cleaning


"b) when I read about widespread reports of valve contamination from other owners"
by then you've allow yourself to join the repair risk pool

summary
catch-can
not the cure
but it can't hurt
 


Meanderthal

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good read until the catch-can synopsis fell apart at the end

"But finding crud in a catch can is not evidence of the need for a catch can or that you would have "eventually" experienced valve contamination without one" - correct in that it is not evidence but is a key factor in the potential for valve deposits

"I'll worry about valve contamination when a) I get valve deposits"
homeowners insurance - I'll worry about it when a car hits my house
fire insurance - I'll worry about it when my house is on fire
health insurance - I'll worry about it when I'm taking a dirt nap
I consider it an inexpensive one time insurance payment towards risk reduction.
$100 catch can vs $2k valve cleaning


"b) when I read about widespread reports of valve contamination from other owners"
by then you've allow yourself to join the repair risk pool

summary
catch-can
not the cure
but it can't hurt
I think that one of Mark S’s points is that this engine is essentially 10+ years old. Yes, there have been changes during that time, but the 2L EcoBoost with Direct Injection has been around for a long time. Meaning there are a lot of these engines around with lots of miles on each one. There just isn’t any evidence of valve contamination. If it was going to happen, it would have by now.
 

Major Kong

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I think that one of Mark S’s points is that this engine is essentially 10+ years old. Yes, there have been changes during that time, but the 2L EcoBoost with Direct Injection has been around for a long time. Meaning there are a lot of these engines around with lots of miles on each one. There just isn’t any evidence of valve contamination. If it was going to happen, it would have by now.






adding my conjecture
air/oil separator in essence is a catch can "sans can"
so in essence there is currently one in place
if you can accept that reasoning
an option which I've taken is to add a catch can
downstream of the separator
still manages to pick up what slips past the separator
 

V8 Yankee

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I think that one of Mark S’s points is that this engine is essentially 10+ years old. Yes, there have been changes during that time, but the 2L EcoBoost with Direct Injection has been around for a long time. Meaning there are a lot of these engines around with lots of miles on each one. There just isn’t any evidence of valve contamination. If it was going to happen, it would have by now.
I installed a UPR CC a few months ago. To date (3000k) it has accumulated a few drops of oil. All the points written by others here all have a common theme, that is it is really not needed. Ford already addressed the issue that the CC is intended for. There is however a good use for it. On a new engine there should be very little to no oil "blowing by" the piston(s). On older engines the blow by will increase as the piston rings start to wear. On a well maintained 1.5 this blow by will be negligible but if there is premature wear for some reason the CC will give you a visual on the blow by with the increase of oil in the can. Of course so will the dipstick. Other than the cool factor the CC is more window dressing on the 1.5. The UPR CC is definitely a quality accessory and looks good but $200 will buy you more useful accessories.
 

Mark S.

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if there is premature wear for some reason the CC will give you a visual on the blow by with the increase of oil in the can. Of course so will the dipstick. Other than the cool factor the CC is more window dressing on the 1.5. The UPR CC is definitely a quality accessory and looks good but $200 will buy you more useful accessories.
Good point. The only other reason I can think of is if you are running software meant to boost power (a "tune") then a catch can might be useful. The higher the power output the more critical becomes fuel octane. If you increase boost enough you will also increase contaminants in the crankcase vapors, which can significantly effect mixture octane when they are pumped back into the intake tract. A catch can will help limit contaminants and keep the mixture octane more stable.
 
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I always use Top Tier fuel and found that the water level in the fuel seemed worse in the winter months (in my Mustang). I had to empty it once every couple of weeks. In the summer it was only once a month. In the one year, I had it installed on my BS, I only emptied it a few of times and the container had very little fluid in it.
Last time I bought a bottle of STP Dry Gas it was $2.49. I do that twice during the winter.
I still burn top tier fuel.
IMHO a second aftermarket oil separator on the dragon engine was just another successful way To get your money for nothing and your chicks for free,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, no wait!
 


Major Kong

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[ quote] if there is premature wear for some reason the CC will give you a visual on the blow by with the increase of oil in the can. Of course so will the dipstick. Other than the cool factor the CC is more window dressing on the 1.5. The UPR CC is definitely a quality accessory and looks good but $200 will buy you more useful accessories.
Good point. The only other reason I can think of is if you are running software meant to boost power (a "tune") then a catch can might be useful. The higher the power output the more critical becomes fuel octane. If you increase boost enough you will also increase contaminants in the crankcase vapors, which can significantly effect mixture octane when they are pumped back into the intake tract. A catch can will help limit contaminants and keep the mixture octane more stable.
[/QUOTE]

too soon to re-introduce the breather debate? 😀

Ford Bronco Sport Oil catch can 1659012119263
 

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Major Kong

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Why on earth would anyone have a breather and a catch can?
related but independent of each other
breather function: when blow-by gas pressures overcome PCV negative vacuum pressure the breather allows those pressurized
gases to escape to atmosphere.
when the PCV circuit has ceased to lack to vacuum so would the catch-can (being on the same circuit)
it would be at this point a breather picks up the ball and runs with it
 

Meanderthal

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related but independent of each other
breather function: when blow-by gas pressures overcome PCV negative vacuum pressure the breather allows those pressurized
gases to escape to atmosphere.
when the PCV circuit has ceased to lack to vacuum so would the catch-can (being on the same circuit)
it would be at this point a breather picks up the ball and runs with it
This breather must be working much differently than what used to be common in engines up through the 70's.
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