Kinetic rope question

[enjuhner357]

There’s a video posted on this thread: https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/video-recovery-rope-testing-project-farm.9263/

A few things missing from the discussion:
1. The response of a non-metallic round rope/sling of larger diameter will be stiffer than the same non-metallic material of a smaller diameter. This was touched on above. The rope can be thought of as a spring that only works in tension. Stiffness or spring rate of a material is equal to AE/L, where A is your cross sectional area, E is the material’s Young’s Modulus and L is the (rest) length of the spring…rope in this case. This also assumes constant, linear behavior.
2. Different materials have different properties. A steel rope will behavior and respond differently than Nylon than Dyneema than Spectra than etc.
3. Nylon absorbs moisture and weakens over time by greater than 15% and abrades when exposed to salts and dirt. They will never be clean and pure after exposure. This material is not best to use in critical applications and typically prohibited from use, pending margin of safety, in overhead lift maritime environments.
4. The ASME B30 series covers quite a bit on factors of safety, working load and proof loads of overhead slings should there be an interest to read more.
5. Mass of the vehicle is only part of the equation. What is the incline? What is the coefficient of friction? I.e., are you stuck in the mud or on an icy slope.
6. It’s easier to make a longer rope shorter than the other way around. Learn to tie knots that can be highly loaded or investigate pulley blocks.

That’s my engineer comments having worked with various vendors/contractors and technical authorities in the Dept. of Army and Navy. Here though, we are talking recreational off road recovery. So the best rope is the one that works and gets you unstuck.

More reading:
https://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/pdf_documents/what_most_people_dont_know_about_winching.pdf

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[gatornek]

There’s a video posted on this thread: https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/video-recovery-rope-testing-project-farm.9263/

A few things missing from the discussion:
1. The response of a non-metallic round rope/sling of larger diameter will be stiffer than the same non-metallic material of a smaller diameter. This was touched on above. The rope can be thought of as a spring that only works in tension. Stiffness or spring rate of a material is equal to AE/L, where A is your cross sectional area, E is the material’s Young’s Modulus and L is the (rest) length of the spring…rope in this case. This also assumes constant, linear behavior.
2. Different materials have different properties. A steel rope will behavior and respond differently than Nylon than Dyneema than Spectra than etc.
3. Nylon absorbs moisture and weakens over time by greater than 15% and abrades when exposed to salts and dirt. They will never be clean and pure after exposure. This material is not best to use in critical applications and typically prohibited from use, pending margin of safety, in overhead lift maritime environments.
4. The ASME B30 series covers quite a bit on factors of safety, working load and proof loads of overhead slings should there be an interest to read more.
5. Mass of the vehicle is only part of the equation. What is the incline? What is the coefficient of friction? I.e., are you stuck in the mud or on an icy slope.
6. It’s easier to make a longer rope shorter than the other way around. Learn to tie knots that can be highly loaded or investigate pulley blocks.

That’s my engineer comments having worked with various vendors/contractors and technical authorities in the Dept. of Army and Navy. Here though, we are talking recreational off road recovery. So the best rope is the one that works and gets you unstuck.

More reading:
https://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/pdf_documents/what_most_people_dont_know_about_winching.pdf

That video is on youTube. I love projectfarm, but to be sure, this was more of a 'fun driven' experiement for him. You can tell he's not trying to offend any of the companies or any " recovery heads" by coming to any sure conclusions. I actually wish he would've spent more time cutting each of the ropes open. I did see another youtube channel, where someone did do that on a few, and the braiding on the bubba rope looked superb and exquisite compared to the others. And he also showed you how a lot of those 'chinese ropes' on amazon don't have any braiding barely at all.

Anyway, as you described above, recovery is very much an exact science with a plethora of variables involved. This thread was mainly trying to target some 'core characteristics' of the type of kinetic rope suitable for the Bronco Sport and its ilk.

 

[gatornek]

I think I'm pretty much sold on the 'Renegade Bubba Rope' for myself.


Can anyone on this thread show me a picture of what "30 feet of rope" looks like when its stored in real life? I'm having a hard time, and I feel like this is something that's going to occupy an awful lot of space, and for that reason, maybe I should just keep it to 20.

 

[Meanderthal]

I think I'm pretty much sold on the 'Renegade Bubba Rope' for myself.


Can anyone on this thread show me a picture of what "30 feet of rope" looks like when its stored in real life? I'm having a hard time, and I feel like this is something that's going to occupy an awful lot of space, and for that reason, maybe I should just keep it to 20.

I think that @gatornek has been hacked by the marketing department at Bubba Rope!

 

[gatornek]

I think that @gatornek has been hacked by the marketing department at Bubba Rope!

?
...the marketing, the way every 'offroader' speaks glowingly about it, and then the cut-open to see the material was the cherry on top.?...

to admit its not hyped, would be lying.

 

[enjuhner357]

I think I'm pretty much sold on the 'Renegade Bubba Rope' for myself.


Can anyone on this thread show me a picture of what "30 feet of rope" looks like when its stored in real life? I'm having a hard time, and I feel like this is something that's going to occupy an awful lot of space, and for that reason, maybe I should just keep it to 20.

You can probably get an sufficient idea from Google searching or looking at Amazon customer review videos/pictures. Better yet, buy both 20’ and 30’ units, and if you don’t like whichever, return it. Easy day.

 

[Mark S.]

Here’s a reasonably priced 7/8 Nylon rope from Amazon. Measure length when new. If used it will stretch, but will rebound a certain amount. It will never be the same length as new after use. The more and/or harder you pull on it the more it will permanently stretch. Inpect prior to every off-road trip. Replace if:

• excessive soil you can’t wash off.
• rope is visibly damaged.
• measured length is greater than 10% of new length.

Recovery ropes should be considered wear items to be replaced when required.

 

[gatornek]

Here’s a reasonably priced 7/8 Nylon rope from Amazon. Measure length when new. If used it will stretch, but will rebound a certain amount. It will never be the same length as new after use. The more and/or harder you pull on it the more it will permanently stretch. Inpect prior to every off-road trip. Replace if:

• excessive soil you can’t wash off.
• rope is visibly damaged.
• measured length is greater than 10% of new length.

Recovery ropes should be considered wear items to be replaced when required.

Matt (from Matt's off road) talks often about "rock rash", and if you allow a rope to get "rock rash"...to toss it immediately, even if its brand new. Snatch straps, from what I've learned, are similar. They only have so many hits in them. And if you allow them to get dirty so that abrasives are getting in that fabric, then you are cutting the life even shorter.

I get it. For the most part, this might never even get used by me. I keep putting together this "recovery bag", but the only place I keep driving my BS to is to/from work and the preschool. But I do have a problem with propping up cheap, Chinese garbage on Bezosmart, even if they are price effective for that one off or two off use, in which the product just gets the job done. Its just something I can't look away from...but point taken.

 

[gatornek]

If I'm going to cheap on the kinetic rope, and go Chinese, it would be with ChynoGear USA before I'd go Bezosmart. I still haven't counted out Chynogear USA. I like that they offer 20% military discount, so it actually comes out very inexpensive.

 

[Mark S.]

If I'm going to cheap on the kinetic rope, and go Chinese, it would be with ChynoGear USA before I'd go Bezosmart. I still haven't counted out Chynogear USA. I like that they offer 20% military discount, so it actually comes out very inexpensive.

I'm not familiar with your colloquialisms, but I'm guessing you mean Rhino USA. If so, it doesn't sell a 7/8" 30' rope (that I can find), or I would likely have purchased one there for the reasons you stated.

I read through the reviews on the item I linked to at Amazon; the vast majority of reviewers found it to be a quality, durable product. I used mine to pull a stump out of my front yard (you can find the post here with a search) and it worked as advertised. Everyone is free to make purchasing choices on whatever criteria they choose, but assuming a product is "cheap" and/or "garbage" based on its country of origin isn't logical. Manufacturers in China produce both high and low quality products, just like manufacturers around the world, including the good ole USA.

Further, given the interconnectedness of worldwide manufacturing--as evidenced by the recent supply chain disruptions--it's nigh impossible to say with any accuracy where a given product comes from.

Finally, I like Jeff Bezos and Amazon. I get why some don't, but I find the pros in my relationship with Amazon overwhelmingly outweigh the cons. To each his/her own.

 

[Horse n Buggy]

I think I'm pretty much sold on the 'Renegade Bubba Rope' for myself.


Can anyone on this thread show me a picture of what "30 feet of rope" looks like when its stored in real life? I'm having a hard time, and I feel like this is something that's going to occupy an awful lot of space, and for that reason, maybe I should just keep it to 20.

I can't help with 30' of rope. But here is 20' of 3/4" rope next to the crate it's typically stored inside of in the context of a bronco sport trunk.

 

[gatornek]

I can't help with 30' of rope. But here is 20' of 3/4" rope next to the crate it's typically stored inside of in the context of a bronco sport trunk.

Thank you!

 

[gatornek]

but I'm guessing you mean Rhino USA.

To be fair, not mine. Stole it from a youtuber offroader.

I read through the reviews on the item I linked to at Amazon; the vast majority of reviewers found it to be a quality, durable product.

I'm sure I don't have to tell you about 'review brokers' on Amazon. Reviews aren't always what they seem....ESPECIALLY when it comes to Chinese products. The Chinese know very well how to game the Amazon system and have people sitting in internet cafes where all they do all day is write amazon reviews.

but assuming a product is "cheap" and/or "garbage" based on its country of origin isn't logical.

I don't reject a product being from 'a' country. I reject it being CHINESE GARBAGE. I feel I'm PLENTY logical in rejecting Chinese manufacturing that has been forced down my throat since they decided to turn the vast majority of their country into forced labor sweatshops circa mid-80's. This is when US businesses' first started to ramp up on their offshoring of manufacturing which, in turn, began the death of the US 'blue collar' job market. I feel I'm being plenty logical.

Further, given the interconnectedness of worldwide manufacturing--as evidenced by the recent supply chain disruptions--it's nigh impossible to say with any accuracy where a given product comes from.

I can assure you Mark, I can clearly tell when something is made here the USA, and am very proud to purchase those items, if it something I really want, even if it means paying a premium.

 

[gatornek]

you mean Rhino USA. If so, it doesn't sell a 7/8" 30' rope (that I can find), or I would likely have purchased one there for the reasons you stated.

FWIW, I've given thought to your point about ropes being a 'throw away' item. In which case, it makes less sense for me to invest into a high quality item. Essentially, all you want is for the rope NOT to break that one or two times that I might use it. That's pretty much it.

I don't do this daily, weekly, or heck, even monthly. I also don't do recovery professionally so its not like I need to better protect myself against liabilty with a high quality rope.

I may very well "China it out" here. Begrudgingly. ?

 

[Maxwellian]

I can't help with 30' of rope. But here is 20' of 3/4" rope next to the crate it's typically stored inside of in the context of a bronco sport trunk.

Wow! That one looks even bigger for it’s nominal diameter than the Bubba or Yankum ropes. Maybe a puffy hollow braid?
My 5/8” x20’ Bubba rope fits along side the full size spare. It feels at least as fat as a 7/8” of most normal ropes like yacht braid.

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