Don't get an off-road ticket...

[Mark S.]

Sheesh...

https://jalopnik.com/national-park-service-will-cite-drivers-of-awd-cars-for-1851617315

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[jofer]

To be fair, Canyonlands, especially the Needles and Maze districts, do not mess around. When the trails are rated 4WD only, they mean it. The park specifically requires low range (i.e. that's essentially how they define 4WD).

Canyonlands has a very clear system and specifies where something like the sport is fine and where it isn't. They specifically have "high clearance AWD or 2WD is fine, low clearance is not" roads. Others are explicitly "low range 4wd required". Those err on the conservative side in some cases, but there's a reason for the ratings.

I haven't actually personally been on that specific road (Colorado River Overlook in the Needles district), but it's a rated 4 trail. Could you do it in a sport? Maybe? Would really depend on the trail + condition. Would it be risky, especially solo? Yes. That's why they are rather fussy about the rules. It's a really really remote area and they don't want people getting stuck out there. The needles district is not close to anything.

 

[Rawah652]

This is interesting. For what it's worth- the Rangers had no problem with my Badlands when I got the Wilderness Permit for the Elephant Hills Trail in the Needles district of the same park. Neither the Ranger at the desk nor the one who checked my permit at the campsite permit said anything about my vehicle, even when I specifically asked the one at the Visitor Center about it. Granted this was 2022 and they probably hadn't seen many yet.

I'd definitely recommend running that trail with upgraded tires and a bit of a lift, but while I had to drive slower and plan more than a fully kitted out big Bronco or Wrangler, I also didn't have any major issues with the trail either. I would be hesitant to try this in a non-Badlands type model though as the locking rear diff was definitely used in a couple places.

(if you've heard of this trail you know what this spot is!)

 

[jofer]

@Rawah652 - Wait, you did elephant hill in the sport? I am definitely impressed!! Tell us more!!

Either way, yeah, at the end of the day, there is likely a large degree of individual discretion and variation in what rangers will consider okay and won't.

Edit: To answer my own question, your really great writeup of it is here: https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/off-roading-on-elephant-hill-trail-in-canyonlands-ut-trip-report-mods-that-mattered-most.7448/ Nice stuff, and a really nice writeup of the trip too!! (Apparently I already upvoted that in the past, but forgot about it.)

 

[Mark S.]

Apparently I already upvoted that in the past, but forgot about it.

They say the first thing to go is your hearing, and I can't remember what the second thing is...

 

[Rawah652]

Edit: To answer my own question, your really great writeup of it is here: https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/off-roading-on-elephant-hill-trail-in-canyonlands-ut-trip-report-mods-that-mattered-most.7448/ Nice stuff, and a really nice writeup of the trip too!! (Apparently I already upvoted that in the past, but forgot about it.)

No worries, thankfully the trail is still a bit of an unknown. I definitely had a great trip, and hope to get back out there soon.

Either way, yeah, at the end of the day, there is likely a large degree of individual discretion and variation in what rangers will consider okay and won't.

Yeah, this definitely goes a long way. If you have a basic level of outdoor competency and act accordingly, the Rangers are there to help you have fun and make the most of your trip for what you want to do. I talked to the older gentleman at the backcountry desk in the visitor center for 30 minutes about the area before I had to take my leave. I've never had a bad experience in any National Park with a Ranger, so the guy in the post must have been having a special day to earn that kind of wrath.

 

[RWT]

The National Park Service (NPS) defines a high clearance off road vehicle as the following:

"A high clearance 4WD vehicle is defined as a SUV or truck type vehicle, with at least 15 inch tire rims or more, with a low gear transfer case, designed for heavier type use than a standard passenger vehicle, with at least 8 inches of clearance or more from the lowest point of the frame, body, suspension, or differential, to the ground, also including a means to mechanically power both, front and real wheels at the same time." (emphasis added) Excerpt from the NPS website.

It looks like the BS/BL may possibly/arguably meet all the requirements EXCEPT a low gear transfer case.

I do have say all my previous 4X4 vehicles, (Jeeps & trucks), had 4LO and it did come in handy on occasion. I am all about pushing vehicles to their limits but we also have to accept the fact that these are Bronco Sports after all ( Read: Soft-roader ).

JMHO
No expertise implied or expressed

 

[RWT]

I've never had a bad experience in any National Park with a Ranger, so the guy in the post must have been having a special day to earn that kind of wrath.

I think most people would echo your sentiments about NPS Rangers. Two of my closest friends are retired NPS Park Rangers and they are some easy going guys.

Based on the terminology used in the letter, I suspect this letter was sent based on NPS surveillance footage, (probably a trail cam), and not a contact with a Ranger. Had a Park Ranger caught them on the trail, such a letter would not be necessary as the Ranger would have either issued a verbal warning, written warning, or a citation for violation of 36 CFR 1.5(f) to the driver.

Terminology like, "A vehicle registered to you and to this address...", implies this information was most likely gathered from the DMV based on a license plate check. This type of terminology is often used when the actual driver has not been identified. You may notice the letter never identifies the recipient as the driver/operator of the vehicle, only as the registered owner. Additionally, the penalty phrase states, "future violations may incur a collateral forfeiture..." Not, You, as the registered owner, may incur penalties for future violations... That is because the actual operator of the vehicle is the violator/offender. The NPS is working on the assumption the owner was either the operator or knows who the operator was at the time of the violation. Additionally, they are hoping the owner will cooperate in keeping the violation from occuring again.

JMHO
No expertise implied or expressed

 

[Bucko]

A lawyer trying to make a name for themselves could beat and have some fun with this one....

all-wheel drive is not the same as four-wheel drive.

Really? All wheel drive means 4 wheels are engaged, the same as 4 wheel drive technically.

Any lawyers out there wanting to take this on for the Suby driver?

 

[magicbus]

We tell people who want to take their AWD on the beach it's minimum $175 fee to pull them out IF their towing eye bolt is available and can be used. If not they have to call a private service. Many AWD vehicles do not have rescue hooks.

 

[tjm73]

The NPS definition is flawed. The beter solution is a no charge day use permit where the Ranger inspects the vehicle and talks to the driver to assess vehicle and driver capabilities.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I do have say all my previous 4X4 vehicles, (Jeeps & trucks), had 4LO and it did come in handy on occasion.

I agree 100%. We have spent time in western Colorado every fall for over 40 years and are on 4WD rated trails almost every day we are there, chasing pictures of the aspens. But we do this in body-on-frame vehicles with 4LO transfer cases (currently a 2012 Expedition, lift, winch, tires, etc.) Some of these trails I might try in the Sport, but not most. We spend a lot of time in 4LO, mostly to save the brakes on downhill runs.

 

[Mark S.]

I believe the Badlands meets all the parameters defined for a 4WD vehicle except for the low-range gear. With the power transfer unit and the rear diff locked, drivetrain behavior is essentially indistinguishable from any other 4WD with a locking rear diff. The only major difference is that the lockers are clutch-based rather than mechanical, which can lead to overheated components.

The Badlands' biggest deficiencies are the lack of ground clearance and low-range gear. While I agree with @RWT that the Badlands is a "soft roader," I would add that it is arguably the most capable soft roader on the market.

 

[sajohnson]

The National Park Service (NPS) defines a high clearance off road vehicle as the following:

"A high clearance 4WD vehicle is defined as a SUV or truck type vehicle, with at least 15 inch tire rims or more, with a low gear transfer case, designed for heavier type use than a standard passenger vehicle, with at least 8 inches of clearance or more from the lowest point of the frame, body, suspension, or differential, to the ground, also including a means to mechanically power both, front and real wheels at the same time." (emphasis added) Excerpt from the NPS website.

It looks like the BS/BL may possibly/arguably meet all the requirements EXCEPT a low gear transfer case.

I do have say all my previous 4X4 vehicles, (Jeeps & trucks), had 4LO and it did come in handy on occasion. I am all about pushing vehicles to their limits but we also have to accept the fact that these are Bronco Sports after all ( Read: Soft-roader ).

JMHO
No expertise implied or expressed

Were your previous 4x4's manuals?

The reason I ask is that prior to the Badlands, all of our vehicles had manual transmissions. None had low range, but some were geared low. Still, in situations that called for creeping along, or starting from a stop fully loaded on a steep hill, it was necessary to slip the clutch. A nasty smell would follow.

It would be better if the BS BL had a low range (I wish it did) but with the 8-speed auto (w/ a very low 1st gear), the Badlands can utilize the torque converter to move very slowly.

 

[sajohnson]

We tell people who want to take their AWD on the beach it's minimum $175 fee to pull them out IF their towing eye bolt is available and can be used. If not they have to call a private service. Many AWD vehicles do not have rescue hooks.

1) It's a very good idea for people to have to pay for their recovery, or rescue in other situations (hiking, mountain climbing). Because rescues can be involved and expensive, it might make sense for the permit fees to be set at a level that covers rescues (like an insurance premium).

2) WRT the towing eye. This has been covered, but as a reminder -- any BS owner with the factory hitch does NOT have a rear recovery point. A shackle hitch receiver will solve that problem. The one we have is made by Curt ($42):
https://www.amazon.com/CURT-45832-Shackle-Trailer-Receiver/dp/B079QMWBSL

3) From the 2022 owner's manual:

Hmm. There's a good chance that the GVWR will be exceeded during recovery -- especially if the BS BL is stuck in mud. I wonder what percentage of Badlands owners know that Ford recommends using both hooks?

From the article linked to by the OP:

"Despite wilderness-themed marketing tactics, vehicles equipped with AWD have very different capabilities than vehicles equipped with 4WD despite sharing a similar nomenclature."

"Some AWD systems have brake-based limited-slip differentials, but these are still no substitute for locking differentials in traditional 4WD systems."

Ford does not help by claiming the BS and BS BL are "4WD." Likely the above mentioned marketing tactics.

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