Another reason to hate electric vehicles?

[Major Kong]

https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2023/08/03/have-scientists-really-found-a-room-temperature-superconductor
jury's still out

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[sajohnson]

Yep the Teslas door exit mechanism needs to be well labeled!!

Yep. Maybe a permanent label on the backside of the visor and in the glove box.

My sense is that Tesla does some things primarily for aesthetics and/or to be contrary.

 

[sajohnson]

Having lived in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada for a short stint, I can easily see readily available charging for apartment (or similar) dwellers. When I lived there, and I'm sure it's still the case, most places have electricity access near the parking spots. The reason is for a block heater but there's no reason this could not be an EV charger instead. Yes, there are logistical challenges to making it happen but it's not unforeseeable and I'm sure as the adoption rate of EV's continues to climb the availability of charging points will also climb (probably following similar paths).

As I've said, I like EVs. We'd have one right now except my wife really liked/likes the look of the BS (I do too), and we couldn't find an EV with a similar body style. So I'm not being intentionally negative, but -- charging stations are very expensive, so the price per kWh must be higher than residential rates to get a reasonable ROI. On top of that, many companies seem to take advantage of EV owners -- especially when there are no other charging options nearby -- and boost the price further.

In short, I absolutely agree that the number of charging stations will increase dramatically, but I'm afraid the cost per kWh will remain high -- in many cases 4 to 5 times the typical residential electric cost. That doesn't mean people should not buy EVs, just that they will not see the promised lower operating cost.

 

[Meanderthal]

As I've said, I like EVs. We'd have one right now except my wife really liked/likes the look of the BS (I do too), and we couldn't find an EV with a similar body style. So I'm not being intentionally negative, but -- charging stations are very expensive, so the price per kWh must be higher than residential rates to get a reasonable ROI. On top of that, many companies seem to take advantage of EV owners -- especially when there are no other charging options nearby -- and boost the price further.

In short, I absolutely agree that the number of charging stations will increase dramatically, but I'm afraid the cost per kWh will remain high -- in many cases 4 to 5 times the typical residential electric cost. That doesn't mean people should not buy EVs, just that they will not see the promised lower operating cost.

I'm sure that market forces will lower the cost of recharging when not at home eventually. Not saying it is there yet, but competition will influence cost.

As has already been said, today's EVs meet the needs of some people. If daily commuting to work is all you need, then they are an excellent choice, for the most part. I think the biggest issue for me is the cold weather problem, then after that is the "road trip" recharging, and finally the "out in BFE" on a camping trip problem.

 

[Dude]

still too expensive.

Fisker PEAR … under $30k

 

[Mark S.]

Fisker PEAR … under $30k

Not actually for sale yet, as far as I know. You can "reserve" one, but the company doesn't plan to sell any until 2025.

 

[Dude]

Not actually for sale yet, as far as I know. You can "reserve" one, but the company doesn't plan to sell any until 2025.

That’s correct. Like Toyota’s announced 900 mile range batteries (~2027) i take these announcements with a fair amount of skepticism.

 

[Bucko]

Not actually for sale yet, as far as I know. You can "reserve" one, but the company doesn't plan to sell any until 2025.

Well than, the ones that are available are too expensive, and the ones in my price range are not available!

 

[Dude]

Well than, the ones that are available are too expensive, and the ones in my price range are not available!

At some point you’re need to add a few more like “paint colors are not to my liking”….

this is the EV I would buy now … but it doesn’t exist…

$25k price or less (w/o the tax incentive)
500+ mile range
2” trailer hitch for my Ebike/etc
Can go on light-duty off road trails for access to hiking, biking, fishing, etc.
Features like a Bronco Sport Badlands or similar.

 

[Bucko]

At some point you’re need to add a few more like “paint colors are not to my liking”….

this is the EV I would buy now … but it doesn’t exist…

$25k price or less (w/o the tax incentive)
500+ mile range
2” trailer hitch for my Ebike/etc
Can go on light-duty off road trails for access to hiking, biking, fishing, etc.
Features like a Bronco Sport Badlands or similar.

Might as well add self parking, self driving, and charges all by itself while we are dreaming.

 

[AxlCllg]

Fisker PEAR … under $30k

Alaska looks just great! I like that EVs stop looking like model toys, but I love the engine's sound too much to give it up.

 

[Tigger]

@Dude @BFunk II and any others offended by the post title, it was in response to a thread that was posted a few days prior to this one about why they hate EVs.
And no worries about me hating EVs as if you’ve read any posts from me on the topic, my next vehicle will be the Rivian R3X, unless Ford does something major like a PHEV Bronco.

But since I’ve bumped this old thread, I wonder if anyone’s opinions have changed over these 2 years.

 

[sajohnson]

@Dude @BFunk II and any others offended by the post title, it was in response to a thread that was posted a few days prior to this one about why they hate EVs.
And no worries about me hating EVs as if you’ve read any posts from me on the topic, my next vehicle will be the Rivian R3X, unless Ford does something major like a PHEV Bronco.

But since I’ve bumped this old thread, I wonder if anyone’s opinions have changed over these 2 years.

My opinion has remained the same.

First of all, it's ridiculous how politicized EVs (and many other products) have become. When making a purchase, people should consider performance; durability; safety; price; operating cost; suitability, etc.

To be honest, had it not been my wife's turn to get a new car, I would have bought an EV. They make sense for us because a) the vast majority of our trips are local, and b) I can easily install a Level 2 charger in the garage, and pay the normal residential rate vs 50-60 cents per KWh at commercial chargers.

That said, those who routinely take long trips might prefer an ICE vehicle, because while EV charging has gotten faster, charging from 20% SOC to just 80% SOC typically takes at least 20-60 minutes with a DC fast charger -- hours with Level 2.

Not to mention that chargers are not exactly available on every corner, and they may be broken or in use.

Another potential drawback is if the EV owner cannot charge at home.

People who can charge at home will have a lower cost per mile than a equivalent ICE vehicle. Also, many EVs have insanely quick acceleration.

 

[Dude]

EVs are caught in the culture wars. They aren’t just cars because they’ve become symbols in bigger fights over:

Climate action vs. climate skepticism

Government intervention vs. free market

Renewable energy vs. fossil fuels

Urban vs. rural identity

 

[Tigger]

@sajohnson, all well said and I do not disagree with any of your points/arguments.

warning: what follows is not a political rant but actually a wallet rant … but reader beware!

One thing I will mention or expand upon, is the political aspect of determining winners and losers, and one big reason I’m moving away from ICE. I live in Illinois and the gas tax is getting insane. They doubled it a few years ago when I was CFO at Illinois Agriculture and now have a regular annual increase. I’m going from memory (too lazy to look up) and it made me so mad and if my in head calcs are right, we’re at about 60 cents a gallon.

Now, will I make that up with a PHEV or EV? I neither know or care but I get a weird satisfaction not paying another Illinois tax.

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