Catback system and axle back...

[67L48]

It's very similar to the CAI conversations. If you want these things for aesthetics (sound, appearance, etc.), then they may be a very good purchase. If you want these things for power gains, then you're looking in the wrong place.

Air flow does have enormous potential to improve performance. But, it must be done in an overall systems approach. Air goes in, air gets used, air goes out. All three of those need to be addressed. If you just add more air, things can get out of balance and you probably get no real advantage. Similarly, if you increase the rate (or decrease the resistance) of air going out, you also aren't doing much.

This isn't a new concept, either. You can go back to old carbureted engines and the same principles apply. Bigger CFM carb, bigger intake manifold, headers, and exhaust is your start. But it's tough to pick just one of those things and get power gains. The entire system needs to be upgraded to handle and use the increased air flow.

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[CrazyKZ]

Good points! I already have the S&B CAI I installed myself. At some point I want to do the "other end" and trying to do my research first of which direction to go.

 

[BourbonRunner]

I'd look at ECU remapping before I'd even consider exhaust or intake mods on a modern forced induction economy-minded motor. Good money after bad IMO.

Maybe Cobb Tuning has something for the 1.5L?

 

[SgtT11B]

To be honest to turbo small displacement engines don't sound good, especially when they have been modded. Yes they are louder, but they don't sound better.

 

[SgtT11B]

I'd look at ECU remapping before I'd even consider exhaust or intake mods on a modern forced induction economy-minded motor. Good money after bad IMO.

Maybe Cobb Tuning has something for the 1.5L?

There's a few companies that offer a tune. I would look at Livernois Motorsports. They offer a smog legal (CARB EO#) tune.

 

[gatornek]

I'd look at ECU remapping before I'd even consider exhaust or intake mods on a modern forced induction economy-minded motor.

Bingo!

 

[Mark S.]

I'd look at ECU remapping before I'd even consider exhaust or intake mods on a modern forced induction economy-minded motor.

You can put an intake/exhaust system on it and THINK you're getting more power, but never have to worry about your warranty. You can modify the software and KNOW you're getting more power, but you have to risk your warranty to do so.

 

[Mark S.]

Air flow does have enormous potential to improve performance. But, it must be done in an overall systems approach. Air goes in, air gets used, air goes out. All three of those need to be addressed. If you just add more air, things can get out of balance and you probably get no real advantage.

Yup. And as I mentioned, I find it difficult to believe that Ford's engineers didn't put thought into optimizing the OEM systems for the power delivery goals it had in mind. The other big issue you run into when you start mucking with power delivery is driveability. It's almost a certainty you can get significantly more power out of a modified 2.0L engine than what Ford advertises for the engine in OEM trim. You can add a larger turbo, bigger air filter, larger charge and down pipes, bigger diameter exhaust pipes, higher pressure fuel injectors, etc., ect., ect. All of that would serve to get more air in and out of the engine so you can burn more fuel and generate more power. But what often happens is while the engine DOES produce more horsepower, the turbo takes so long to spool up you don't actually get any of that extra power until the last couple thousand RPM before you hit the engine's redline. This makes for a dreadful driving experience everywhere except a race track where you can manipulate the throttle and brake to keep the turbo spooled up all the time. Imagine trying to drive you car off-road in this condition, where you need controllable torque at low RPM.

Sounds great for a sports car, but not so much for an off-road adventurer.

 

[BourbonRunner]

You can put an intake/exhaust system on it and THINK you're getting more power, but never have to worry about your warranty. You can modify the software and KNOW you're getting more power, but you have to risk your warranty to do so.

Heard that... but an intake/exhaust is a clearly visible modification that really doesn't do much of anything. If you're willing to go through a slight hassle for better performance, it's doable... and economical.

EG: I had an under warranty, dealer maintained W204 MB C3004M. That motor was specifically de-tuned from the factory to somewhere around 50HP/50-60TQ less than the same motor in the E-class and C-coupe. This was substantial and punctuated by the time I had a service loaner e350. Something had to be done.

A check for around $900 to a speed shop in California got me an OB2 flasher and the right software package. No intake physical or mechanical changes, no cat-back exhaust , no silly numbered stages that really mean nothing. Just download it and let 'er rip.

For services, plug it back in, change to OEM before the appointment. In the dealer's parking lot after the service, upload the high performance program back in to release those hobbled ponies. My service writer was pretty good about it, too- he'd tell me if there was a software flashing as part of the service so I didn't always have to.

I wasn't beating M3s or C63's but I would say if given the opportunity to safely pilot a 300HP+ MB sedan at speeds in excess of posted on a highway, you should take it. I would.

 

[Mark S.]

Heard that... but an intake/exhaust is a clearly visible modification that really doesn't do much of anything. If you're willing to go through a slight hassle for better performance, it's doable... and economical.

I don't believe Ford produces different versions of the 1.5L or 2.0L that produce more horsepower, so a simple/safe tune such as you described for the Merc isn't available. I believe Ford Performance offers a "calibration" for the 2.0L used in other Ford models, but it offers a very modest power gain--a fact that should inform any decisions about using modified software. The bottom line is I'm not willing to risk the powertrain warranty I paid for to get a little more power.

Beyond that, I don't think it's ethical to modify an engine in a way that could affect reliability then expect the manufacturer to cover a warranty claim for damage caused by that modification. I know that's a common practice out there in the wild, I just don't think it's right.

 

[BourbonRunner]

I don't believe Ford produces different versions of the 1.5L or 2.0L that produce more horsepower, so a simple/safe tune such as you described for the Merc isn't available. I believe Ford Performance offers a "calibration" for the 2.0L used in other Ford models, but it offers a very modest power gain--a fact that should inform any decisions about using modified software. The bottom line is I'm not willing to risk the powertrain warranty I paid for to get a little more power.

Far as I know Ford doesn't offer an SVO/SVT version of the either the 1.5L or 2.0L Ecoboost but there are certainly different outputs depending on final application. EG: The 3cyl is the most impressive, ranging from 150-200HP. The 2.0 remapped for the Maverick over BS gets more torque at lower RPMs.

Magnuson-Moss more or less requires that in order to invalidate a warranty, the failure must be linked to the modification. That's a bit of a stretch for an ECU tune especially when the factory can get similar numbers from a remap and not swapping other parts.

Beyond that, I don't think it's ethical to modify an engine in a way that could affect reliability then expect the manufacturer to cover a warranty claim for damage caused by that modification. I know that's a common practice out there in the wild, I just don't think it's right.

Replace modify "engine" with "suspension," "lights," "wheels," etc. We regularly run the risk of what is covered and what isn't per our mods. We accept that our actions may have direct and inverse reactions. I'm making the monthly payment, I get to take the chance.

I wouldn't expect Ford to cover a slammed to the pavement show car, a drag racer or trail-built high speed pre-runner.

 

[Bucko]

You're going to have a hard time pushing the Magnuson-Moss issue if you have a tune installed, pushing the engine past what it was designed to do, then make a warranty claim. It used to be that owners wanting that extra bit would run a tune, then when something happened, they would remove the tune and take it to a dealer for warranty repair. The control modules now have a parameter that indicates a "count" as to if/when the management SW was changed. So even if you remove a tune before taking it in for service, they will know it was modified at one time.

Your word against there's maybe? I won't chance the fight.

 

[gatornek]

Don't let the thread devolve into tune vs no tune. I think its clear that some people are more risk takers, and some people are more risk averse. Tuning the ECU before the warranty period is expired is a risk. Pure and simple. How much of a risk seems to be an endless debate if you want it to be. The point was very fair...that if you're concern is for horsepower in a GDI MAP tuned vehicle, your surest bet is the ECU. I think anyone that tunes understands that this is more than likely a kiss goodbye to your warranty. Not a certainty. But more than likely.

There are lots of things in this world people lessen their frugality on and are a little looser with financial risk (Football season is coming up and let me tell you about how many idiot friends I know blow thousands of dollars every Fall in NFL gambling in hopes of that ONE good season where Christmas is taken care of ) . I would rank tuning a car ECU high on the list as one of them. But that's obviously not for everyone. Heck probably not even for me right now.

Im chomping at the bit to throw the Cobb tune on my Badlands, but I'm not quite yet comfortable enough to assume the risk it would bring. Not sure if or when I'll get there. I just know that I'm not there yet.

 

[Mark S.]

I think anyone that tunes understands that this is more than likely a kiss goodbye to your warranty.

I disagree. I talk to many, many people about this; you would be surprised how many do not understand the basics of the warranty they purchased.

 

[Alfa 2407]

I disagree. I talk to many, many people about this; you would be surprised how many do not understand the basics of the warranty they purchased.

Both of yall are correct, there is, unfortunately, a large majority of people that do not understand how warranties work, but, in cases such as this, tuning a car such as the bs requires research that will inevitably turn up information about risking warranties

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