Fuel Injector Recall

[Mark S.]

I'm not sure what your point is. My info came from Ford Corporation and my Ford Dealer. Read up on the subject, I've relayed enough for you to do a deep dive. After that share what you learned, that's why this forum is here.

The point is you've made an unsupported claim and now you're suggesting it's up to others to disprove your claim. None of the links you posted support your claim that the injectors used in the 1.5L Dragon engine are more prone to cracking than injectors used by other manufacturers. For all we know, these same injectors are used by other manufacturers in other engines (that's not uncommon).

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[Bucko]

I will always want to learn and keep informed. This is why I join and converse with forums and its members.

I've been on many, and have seen information passed that is correct and supportive. I've also seen my share that are sometimes that of an opinion, and others read it and take it for gospel.

My longtime favorite was when synthetic oils came to market. They were seen as evil engine ruining oils, and to steer clear of them. This is only one, but it was a huge one that got many forums spinning into a tizzy. I of course do not see this topic going anywhere near that example, but I also don't see it as being an issue above any other injector potential failure.

If our 1.5 injectors are indeed above the normal and crack and leak more than others, then I'd like to know, but it would help if there is some documented proof to this.

 

[Bronco Blue]

I mean if these fuel injectors are not the issue then why even go through all this trouble to do a recall? Seems silly to me that if they’re just like everyone else’s fuel injectors that they would be labeled as to why the recall is being performed and that Ford switched to a different fuel injector for the new Bronco Sports.

If you guys are saying that these fuel injectors are the same as everyone else’s then where is your proof of that? Also, if they’re the same then why did Ford even bother to switch to different designed fuel injectors on newer ones? Also why the need for an extended warranty if the fuel injectors are the same as everyone else’s? If the fuel injectors aren’t the issue then it seems like Ford just guessed that cracked fuel injectors were the issue to add a tube that drains fuel to the ground and software to detect an issue.

It makes no sense the claim that’s being said that the fuel injectors are the same as everyone else’s if they were labeled as the issue for the recall, got an extended warranty, and are no longer being used in newer ones I’m just saying.

 

[Sleddog]

We just purchased our sport a few weeks ago, so I'm not sure if the fix was already done by the dealership already. I'll wait another few weeks, then contact them to see.

It was purchased in north central Florida.

A dealer can’t legally sell a vehicle under a recall. Ours was purchased 3/10/23. The sales guy was working it up and a there was a big yellow notice on the screen saying the vehicle was under recall and the recalled needed to be completed before the vehicle could be released.

Depending on its production date, the tube may have been installed at the factory or by the dealer after delivery.

Ours is a 22, produced 9/22, before the recall.

It was purchased in east central Florida at Mullinax NSB.

 

[Bucko]

A dealer can’t legally sell a vehicle under a recall. Ours was purchased 3/10/23. The sales guy was working it up and a there was a big yellow notice on the screen saying the vehicle was under recall and the recalled needed to be completed before the vehicle could be released.

Depending on its production date, the tube may have been installed at the factory or by the dealer after delivery.

Ours is a 22, produced 9/22, before the recall.

It was purchased in east central Florida at Mullinax NSB.

Ours and your date of sale is close! We purchased ours on the 17th of March, In Gainesville Florida. Parks Ford.

 

[Mark S.]

I mean if these fuel injectors are not the issue then why even go through all this trouble to do a recall? Seems silly to me that if they’re just like everyone else’s fuel injectors that they would be labeled as to why the recall is being performed and that Ford switched to a different fuel injector for the new Bronco Sports.

It could be any fuel system component, but the fuel leaks on some of the cars that caught fire were traced to faulty injectors. In studying what happened with these cars, Ford determined that fuel from a leaking injector would get near hot engine components before it could exit the engine compartment. This is automobile engineering and design 101. Fuel leaks in the engine compartment are inevitable. There is no possible way to 100% prevent component failure, and there are a lot of components in the fuel system. Manufacturers must account for component failure to mitigate danger to the vehicle's occupants. In the case of flammable liquids, you need to ensure they have an exit path away from the vehicle to prevent ignition. Ford either failed to perform an adequate failure mode analysis with the 1.5L engine vis-a-vis the injectors, or it's analysis was faulty.

If you guys are saying that these fuel injectors are the same as everyone else’s then where is your proof of that?

I didn't say that. I said for all we know they could be the same. Many manufacturers purchase components from the same suppliers, and sometimes those parts are the same part rebranded for a different OEM. I don't know for sure that the fuel injectors used for the 1.5L are used in any other cars, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are.

Also, if they’re the same then why did Ford even bother to switch to different designed fuel injectors on newer ones?

I'm not aware that Ford switched to a different fuel injector for new production engines. I would be very interested to see your source for that; can you share it?

Also why the need for an extended warranty if the fuel injectors are the same as everyone else’s?

My guess is Ford offered a lifetime warranty on the injectors as a way to assuage owners' fears caused by the confusion over the purpose of this recall.

If the fuel injectors aren’t the issue then it seems like Ford just guessed that cracked fuel injectors were the issue to add a tube that drains fuel to the ground and software to detect an issue.

See my comments above: Ford knows the fuel leaks that caused at least some of the under-hood fires came from cracked fuel injectors. After realizing that fuel leaking from an injector will get near hot engine components, Ford designed a method to safely route leaked fuel out of the engine compartment.

Because I have seen no evidence that the injectors Ford used are more likely to leak than any other injector, I have speculated that It chose not to replace them. I don't know that for a fact, but it seems logical to me that Ford--a company whose history includes litigation involving exploding cars--would replace a fuel system component it knew was likely to fail and cause a fire. Even if the injectors WERE more likely to leak, and Ford had chosen to replace them, it would still have installed the drain tube, mainly because there's no such thing as a fuel injector that will never leak.

 

[cprcubed]

I'm not getting what is so hard about all of this??? It is not about the physical injectors!!! If the injectors were cracking, there would be a safety recall by the NTSB. It is about getting fuel away from hot engine components and limiting fuel flow IF a fuel injector happens to crack (or other possible leak). Cheers!

 

[Bronco Blue]

It could be any fuel system component, but the fuel leaks on some of the cars that caught fire were traced to faulty injectors. In studying what happened with these cars, Ford determined that fuel from a leaking injector would get near hot engine components before it could exit the engine compartment. This is automobile engineering and design 101. Fuel leaks in the engine compartment are inevitable. There is no possible way to 100% prevent component failure, and there are a lot of components in the fuel system. Manufacturers must account for component failure to mitigate danger to the vehicle's occupants. In the case of flammable liquids, you need to ensure they have an exit path away from the vehicle to prevent ignition. Ford either failed to perform an adequate failure mode analysis with the 1.5L engine vis-a-vis the injectors, or it's analysis was faulty.


I didn't say that. I said for all we know they could be the same. Many manufacturers purchase components from the same suppliers, and sometimes those parts are the same part rebranded for a different OEM. I don't know for sure that the fuel injectors used for the 1.5L are used in any other cars, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are.


I'm not aware that Ford switched to a different fuel injector for new production engines. I would be very interested to see your source for that; can you share it?

My guess is Ford offered a lifetime warranty on the injectors as a way to assuage owners' fears caused by the confusion over the purpose of this recall.


See my comments above: Ford knows the fuel leaks that caused at least some of the under-hood fires came from cracked fuel injectors. After realizing that fuel leaking from an injector will get near hot engine components, Ford designed a method to safely route leaked fuel out of the engine compartment.

Because I have seen no evidence that the injectors Ford used are more likely to leak than any other injector, I have speculated that It chose not to replace them. I don't know that for a fact, but it seems logical to me that Ford--a company whose history includes litigation involving exploding cars--would replace a fuel system component it knew was likely to fail and cause a fire. Even if the injectors WERE more likely to leak, and Ford had chosen to replace them, it would still have installed the drain tube, mainly because there's no such thing as a fuel injector that will never leak.

For the fuel injector part:

“This design element causing the Bronco Sport and Escape problems was introduced in the 2020 Escape and taken out of production for both vehicles in October 2022, Ford said in its regulatory filing.

Potentially affected Escapes were built between Nov. 19, 2018 and Oct. 17, 2022. Potentially affected Bronco Sports were built between Feb. 5, 2020 and Oct. 17, 2022, Ford said.“

The article I quoted this from:

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2022/11/24/bronco-sport-escape-recall/69675638007/

Also this tidbit is interesting:
“"A drain tube will ... be installed to allow fuel to drain from the cylinder head drain hole, away from surfaces which may initiate combustion, to the ground below the vehicle," Ford said in its recall document.”

This is one of my issues with this recall is how was that fix approved? I’m not a tree hugger or anything, but isn’t that bad for the environment?

 

[Mark S.]

For the fuel injector part:

“This design element causing the Bronco Sport and Escape problems...

"Design element" is not necessarily a reference to a part. These include all of the features and configurations that go into an engine design: number of cylinders, displacement, orientation, etc. are all design elements. Designing a method to keep fuel leaks under the hood away from hot components is a design element, one that Ford apparently failed to do with the initial production 1.5L Dragon engines. I've seen nothing to suggest newer engines are using different fuel injectors. I strongly suspect the new "design element" for later production engines is the same as the recall work, which would explain the dearth of parts available--Ford is using them to produce new cars.

This is one of my issues with this recall is how was that fix approved? I’m not a tree hugger or anything, but isn’t that bad for the environment?

Yes, spilling fuel on the ground is bad for the environment. But it's better than keeping it in the engine compartment and causing a fire. Keep in mind, this is an emergency measure; the drain tube is there only to prevent a fire in case of a leak. Fuel injectors rarely leak--they are by necessity among the most reliable of engine components, often lasting the lifetime of the vehicle. .

BTW, pretty much every motor vehicle design on the planet has made accommodations to provide a path for flammable fluids out of the engine compartment away from hot components. It might be a drain tube, or the designers arranged components a way that leaked fluids naturally flow away from hot components.

 

[Ohwell]

I question the claims Ford is giving a lifetime warranty on the fuel injectors, what I read on Ford's website is they are giving a 15-year warranty covering both parts and labor on the fuel injectors from the date of the original purchase when the original warranty began.

 

[Sleddog]

I’m not a tree hugger or anything, but isn’t that bad for the environment?

Sounds like you are a candidate for an EV. No fuel to worry about being bad for the environment.

 

[Goinbroke2]

Imagine if it was noticed that in an accident, the battery and the rad are so close that battery acid and coolant mix. They would move the battery (for example) away from the rad or overflow tank, etc so it wouldn’t happen in an accident. There is nothing wrong with the battery or the cooling system, they are just placed too close in case of an accident. So a recall is sent out to move the battery. Everyone on line starts saying the battery is no good or the coolant system is faulty. Not the case at all.

(oh and sulphuric acid and coolant or methyl alcohol when combined produce phosgene gas which is what the Germans used in ww1. It tears your lungs out and you suffocate)

 

[Ken L]

Called my dealer for who knows how many times. I was put on hold for a long time. Nice way to hang up on me? So called Ford. They called to parts department at the dealer. If you complain they put you on a special list.( so they say) Dealer is to order the parts and then call me to arrange service. I will give this another month. I will be back on the phone with Ford. Each dealer getting 2 parts per week. It may take years to have it done.

 

[Major Kong]

I'm holding out for the vehicle fire suppression system
*roof deck gunnery is on wishlist though

 

[BSBB4Les]

I just had the drainage tube and computer reprogramming done yesterday. It took about an hour and a half. Ford is warranting the injectors for a period of 15yrs/150,000 miles, which ever comes first. I'm not sure when the warranty period starts. If nothing else is accomplished from this action, it gives me more peace of mind than I already had that my BS is safe to drive.

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