20mm wheel spacers installed

[galavoxx]

That makes sense. It's too bad that pinch weld is so pronounced and the liners aren't more recessed.

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[Meanderthal]

Using wheel spacers not lift kit. Tire height remains the same limits. Can run wider not taller.

Because the rub comes when the wheel is turned, the width/offset will affect when the rub happens. A wider tire or adding a spacer will lead to rubbing at the same diameter.

Here is a picture I took with the suspension compressed (spring removed) and wheel turned. This picture doesn’t really show where the rub happens. I just didn’t know at the time where the rub would happen but you can see that if the face of the tire is further back, it will move away from the pinch weld.

There are some other pictures in the thread here.

 

[Meanderthal]

Unless you want to run 70, s like Eric installed on that cactus gray badlands , which by the way , one of the nicest badlands in our little group . My thoughts .

I am running 70’s because I have a 16” wheel. The diameter should be the same as a 17” wheel with a 65 or an 18” wheel with a 60 (at least in the 245 width).

 

[Meanderthal]

I am running 245/65 r17 Wildpeaks. It sounds like I can run spacers with my tire size and the smaller factory recommended tire sizes and a 1.5" lift and will not experience any rub. Is this correct?

First, a lift does not change really what size tire you can run. The reason is that the rub is at the back of the front wheel well. The rub happens when the suspension is compressed and the wheel is turned. If you can avoid the extremes of those 2 things, then a tire larger than 245/65/17 will work. That is a restriction that I don’t think anyone really wants.

If you want to run a spacer, I would recommend stepping down to a 235 width. I think that is what you asked but it isn’t entirely clear. I don’t think anyone has run a spacer with a 235/70/17 yet but I think that might work.

 

[RogueRodney]

First, a lift does not change really what size tire you can run. The reason is that the rub is at the back of the front wheel well. The rub happens when the suspension is compressed and the wheel is turned. If you can avoid the extremes of those 2 things, then a tire larger than 245/65/17 will work. That is a restriction that I don’t think anyone really wants.

If you want to run a spacer, I would recommend stepping down to a 235 width. I think that is what you asked but it isn’t entirely clear. I don’t think anyone has run a spacer with a 235/70/17 yet but I think that might work.

Meanderthal:

Much thanks, learning a ton from you without having to learn the hard way.

I just reviewed your Olive Setup (nice ride by the way). You have 1"/25mm spacers and are running on 245/70/16's. Are you saying you have a rubbing concern (that is what I believe your post said)?

I am in a Bronco Sport Badlands (not ready to introduce her yet, but soon hopefully). I've ordered the Woolworth 1.75" lift kit and have the TitanWheels 25mm spacers. I was really hoping to get the BFGoodrich 245/65/R17 (https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=All-Terrain+T/A+KO2&sidewall=Raised White Letter&partnum=465SR7KO2RWL&tab=Sizes).

Would that work without rubbing? If not is there a 245 that would work with the setup I mentioned? If I do need to stay with the 235's what is the most aggressive KO2 you would recommend? (https://www.tirerack.com/tires/bfgoodrich-all-terrain-t-a-ko2)

My Wildpeak 235's do look pretty good, but had my heart set on the 245's for some reason.

Really appreciate the assist.

RR

 

[605broncodriver]

Height isn't the issue in this circumstance. When you add wheel spacers you change the positional relationship between the tire tread and protrusions--such as the pinch weld--in the wheel well.

Am running 235/60/18. No rubbing. Wildpeak AT Trail.

 

[RogueRodney]

605broncodriver:

Thanks for the response, I think you guys are selling me on the 235's.

I also appreciate you giving an update on how easy the TitanWheel spacers were to install, I have them but haven't put them on yet.

Since I'm looking at 235's, I found one that looks pretty cool:
BFGoodrich Mud-Terrain T/A KM3 (LT235/70R16)
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=Mud-Terrain+T/A+KM3&partnum=37QR6KM3&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

But I'm concerned on the Q Speed Rating of 100mph. I'm down in Texas, and Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas all pretty much have 80-85 mph speed limits.

Most drivers read signs in this area as whatever the sign says +10 mph.

*Note, that may mean slight bursts in excess of those speeds for passing, etc.

Assuming those tires were in proper working order, would that be a concern?

Trying to weigh them vs the BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A K02 (LT235/70R16)
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=All-Terrain+T/A+KO2&sidewall=Raised White Letter&partnum=37SR6KO2RWL&tab=Sizes

The S (112 mph) Speed Rating seems to give more "hypothetical" flexibility...

I'm sure the K02's are the better tire overall, but damn the KM3's look good.

I'm assuming those tires would both work with the standard rims

RR

 

[Jrl]

605broncodriver:

Thanks for the response, I think you guys are selling me on the 235's.

I also appreciate you giving an update on how easy the TitanWheel spacers were to install, I have them but haven't put them on yet.

Since I'm looking at 235's, I found one that looks pretty cool:
BFGoodrich Mud-Terrain T/A KM3 (LT235/70R16)
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=Mud-Terrain+T/A+KM3&partnum=37QR6KM3&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

But I'm concerned on the Q Speed Rating of 100mph. I'm down in Texas, and Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas all pretty much have 80-85 mph speed limits.

Most drivers read signs in this area as whatever the sign says +10 mph.

*Note, that may mean slight bursts in excess of those speeds for passing, etc.

Assuming those tires were in proper working order, would that be a concern?

Trying to weigh them vs the BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A K02 (LT235/70R16)
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=All-Terrain+T/A+KO2&sidewall=Raised White Letter&partnum=37SR6KO2RWL&tab=Sizes

The S (112 mph) Speed Rating seems to give more "hypothetical" flexibility...

I'm sure the K02's are the better tire overall, but damn the KM3's look good.

I'm assuming those tires would both work with the standard rims

RR

You might want to look at 235/)65/17
Take a look , that’s what I run , a very good tire . They are Falken wild peak

 

[Meanderthal]

605broncodriver:

Thanks for the response, I think you guys are selling me on the 235's.

I also appreciate you giving an update on how easy the TitanWheel spacers were to install, I have them but haven't put them on yet.

Since I'm looking at 235's, I found one that looks pretty cool:
BFGoodrich Mud-Terrain T/A KM3 (LT235/70R16)
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=Mud-Terrain+T/A+KM3&partnum=37QR6KM3&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

But I'm concerned on the Q Speed Rating of 100mph. I'm down in Texas, and Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas all pretty much have 80-85 mph speed limits.

Most drivers read signs in this area as whatever the sign says +10 mph.

*Note, that may mean slight bursts in excess of those speeds for passing, etc.

Assuming those tires were in proper working order, would that be a concern?

Trying to weigh them vs the BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A K02 (LT235/70R16)
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=All-Terrain+T/A+KO2&sidewall=Raised White Letter&partnum=37SR6KO2RWL&tab=Sizes

The S (112 mph) Speed Rating seems to give more "hypothetical" flexibility...

I'm sure the K02's are the better tire overall, but damn the KM3's look good.

I'm assuming those tires would both work with the standard rims

RR

Well, you ask me about a 235 and then you decide before I can answer. I think it would be smart to look at the clearance with the 235/65/17 tires you have, with one of your spacers. Also, take an actual measurement of those tires to determine the real diameter. My Toyo’s are supposed to be 29.5” but in reality they measure right around 29”.

I had a little rubbing just backing out of the driveway and turning the wheel at first, but it has stopped rubbing. There is a small slit in the fender liner.

As for speed rating, I think most, if not all, M/T (mud terrain) tires are going to have a lower speed rating. Yes, they are going to look very aggressive and they will have much more road noise (generally speaking). Most people decide to go with an A/T (all terrain) tire, which is sort of an in-between tire that is pretty capable off-road while also be pretty capable on-road. In general an A/T will be a little noisier than an all season tire but some a quiet enough that you wouldn’t notice from inside the vehicle.

I hope that helps a little.

 

[Mark S.]

But I'm concerned on the Q Speed Rating of 100mph. I'm down in Texas, and Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas all pretty much have 80-85 mph speed limits.

Most drivers read signs in this area as whatever the sign says +10 mph.

*Note, that may mean slight bursts in excess of those speeds for passing, etc.

Assuming those tires were in proper working order, would that be a concern?

Two things come to mind. First, when determining speed ratings tires are not tested to failure. Tires are installed on a test fixture that places a load on the tread and spun up to whatever speed the manufacturer wishes to set as the maximum. If the tire holds together for the specified time then that's the speed rating. That doesn't mean the tire will come apart if you run it at a higher speed, but it DOES mean you are now a test driver who needs to be prepared for the tire to come apart.

Second is weight. The BFG tire you're looking at weighs nearly 50 lbs, a factor which I'm sure contributes the speed rating. Here's why. The weight of the tire moving up and down as it travels over bumps generates momentum. That momentum must be controlled by the vehicle's suspension. When you hit a bump that forces the tire upward, the spring and shock work together to--ideally--prevent the tire tread from leaving the road surface, because if the tread isn't touching the road you have no traction on that tire. The faster you go the harder you hit bumps, and the faster the tire will be forced upward. There's a speed at which you will generate too much momentum for the suspension to control, and that speed drops as the weight of the tire increases.

For comparison, the Falken Wildpeak AT3W offered as an option for Bronco Sport weighs around 30 lbs, or 40% less than the BFG. I think it's safe to assume your car's suspension is tuned to handle the weight of OEM tires. How much will you increase wear on suspension components using tires that weigh 40% more? At what speed do you think the suspension will no longer control tires so much heavier than OEM tires? I don't know, but I think your concern about 80+ mph speeds is valid.

 

[RogueRodney]

You might want to look at 235/)65/17
Take a look , that’s what I run , a very good tire . They are Falken wild peak

Jrl: That is a sweet ride, the rims and wheels look great with the color of your horse. Did you just paint the normal rims black? If so it came out very well. The Bronco script also looks good on your ride.

I'm riding currently on the 236/65/R17 Falkens, and agree they are a good tire. They are more "aggressive looking" in person than I thought they would be. Just looking at some options for when they wear down.

 

[RogueRodney]

Well, you ask me about a 235 and then you decide before I can answer. I think it would be smart to look at the clearance with the 235/65/17 tires you have, with one of your spacers. Also, take an actual measurement of those tires to determine the real diameter. My Toyo’s are supposed to be 29.5” but in reality they measure right around 29”.

I had a little rubbing just backing out of the driveway and turning the wheel at first, but it has stopped rubbing. There is a small slit in the fender liner.

As for speed rating, I think most, if not all, M/T (mud terrain) tires are going to have a lower speed rating. Yes, they are going to look very aggressive and they will have much more road noise (generally speaking). Most people decide to go with an A/T (all terrain) tire, which is sort of an in-between tire that is pretty capable off-road while also be pretty capable on-road. In general an A/T will be a little noisier than an all season tire but some a quiet enough that you wouldn’t notice from inside the vehicle.

I hope that helps a little.

Meanderthal, your right, apologies, still interested in your opinion. I just got my ride and am on the 235/65/R17 Falkens that I upgraded it to so I've got around 20K Miles (like at 225 now) to make a decision. Really appreciate your help/advice.

 

[RogueRodney]

Two things come to mind. First, when determining speed ratings tires are not tested to failure. Tires are installed on a test fixture that places a load on the tread and spun up to whatever speed the manufacturer wishes to set as the maximum. If the tire holds together for the specified time then that's the speed rating. That doesn't mean the tire will come apart if you run it at a higher speed, but it DOES mean you are now a test driver who needs to be prepared for the tire to come apart.

Second is weight. The BFG tire you're looking at weighs nearly 50 lbs, a factor which I'm sure contributes the speed rating. Here's why. The weight of the tire moving up and down as it travels over bumps generates momentum. That momentum must be controlled by the vehicle's suspension. When you hit a bump that forces the tire upward, the spring and shock work together to--ideally--prevent the tire tread from leaving the road surface, because if the tread isn't touching the road you have no traction on that tire. The faster you go the harder you hit bumps, and the faster the tire will be forced upward. There's a speed at which you will generate too much momentum for the suspension to control, and that speed drops as the weight of the tire increases.

For comparison, the Falken Wildpeak AT3W offered as an option for Bronco Sport weighs around 30 lbs, or 40% less than the BFG. I think it's safe to assume your car's suspension is tuned to handle the weight of OEM tires. How much will you increase wear on suspension components using tires that weigh 40% more? At what speed do you think the suspension will no longer control tires so much heavier than OEM tires? I don't know, but I think your concern about 80+ mph speeds is valid.

Mark S.:

What an excellent write up man, that made so much sense and was easily approachable as a noob. You should collaborate with Meanderthal and a few others to write a beginners book (serious on that). I can help with tons of stupid questions...

RR

 

[Jrl]

Jrl: That is a sweet ride, the rims and wheels look great with the color of your horse. Did you just paint the normal rims black? If so it came out very well. The Bronco script also looks good on your ride.

I'm riding currently on the 236/65/R17 Falkens, and agree they are a good tire. They are more "aggressive looking" in person than I thought they would be. Just looking at some options for when they wear down.

Mine is called a first edition, it is all stock from factory as you see it . I did add running lites upfront and a 1 1/2 inch flares the badges are all factory. And the black rims are factory.

 

[Mark S.]

Mark S.:

What an excellent write up man, that made so much sense and was easily approachable as a noob. You should collaborate with Meanderthal and a few others to write a beginners book (serious on that). I can help with tons of stupid questions...

RR

There are a lot of knowledgeable folks on this forum willing to share. I'm glad to be a part of it.

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