Ford Protect Warranty.... Thoughts? Experience's?

[redbucky2022]

Good morning & Happy New Year!

I'm curious to know what kind of experience those of you had using your Ford Protect Warranty? I've had almost zero issues with my 22" BB (other than one bad dealer experience due to poor workmanship). But... being that it is a 2022 and just rolled 26k miles I am considering making the investment to extend the warranty coverage in the event of a rainy day. I intend on paying this vehicle off early and keeping it for quite a while so I do see the financial benefit to the coverage.

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[coopny]

I haven't had to use it yet so I can't relate to that, but I can vouch that it's well integrated with Ford's service systems. I bought from a dealer in NJ, bought the Ford Protect warranty from a dealer in Iowa (Granger Ford - props up for +$50 above dealer invoice pricing, list price on the warranty was ~$6000, I paid less than half that with Granger), and I just made my first service appt for my 2023 BS BL with the local dealer and they saw the Ford Protect attached as soon as they entered my VIN.

The only thing I've heard is that since it's considered warranty work that it pays labor at much lower warranty rates and is therefore lower margin; theoretically that could mean if the dealership is busy enough with other work, they may choose to prioritize service appointments for more profitable directly chargeable work ( batteries oil changes inspections tires, etc. or non-warranty work). This is just a theory however and I haven't gotten any indication that this is true with personal experience.

 

[Blue oval fan]

Most service contracts pays posted labor rates and MSRP on parts. Study that contract and read the exclusions list or "what this agreement does not cover" page.

Some really shady service contracts have low aggregate limits and labor caps, mostly at smaller independent used car lots.

 

[coopny]

Most service contracts pays posted labor rates and MSRP on parts. Study that contract and read the exclusions list or "what this agreement does not cover" page.

My understanding is that labor rate on paper is never a problem with Ford Protect ESP because all Ford or Lincoln Dealers in the US, Canada, and Mexico are required to honor it. So it won't be like Ford protect has some labor $/hr limit that a Ford dealer could exceed.

In terms of prioritizing how quickly they get you in, my understanding is that TSB/customer satisfaction program/Ford Protect work is considered warranty work, which is paid at a lower labor rate negotiated between Ford and the dealer. This is not a problem unique to Ford:

Maas says the different pay structures are confusing and illogical. "So if a dealer is using a time guide and it's going to take two hours for the job to do it for a customer not under warranty, why should the same job magically take an hour if it's being done for a customer that happens to be the OEM? It just doesn't make logical sense."​

It also can set up a weird dynamic within the service department itself, said Nissan Dealer Advisory Board Chairman Tyler Slade. Lower warranty reimbursement rates are causing technicians to cherry-pick customer-pay work, he said.​

"We're seeing more and more of them just not wanting to do the warranty work because of the pay rate and book time," said Slade, operating partner at Tim Dahle Nissan Southtowne in suburban Salt Lake City.​

Technicians avoiding warranty work because they don't think they are being paid fairly for the work required could cost dealers and automakers business.​

Anyways, I will have to see how this bears out in practice. Thus far my BS hasn't needed any warranty work period...

 

[FalconRebel21]

My experience was with engine rebuild on my pre-certified used 2011 Mustang. There was an odd sound and when the dealer checked the oil filter there were metal shavings from inside the filter. Thus the short block of the engine was rebuilt. It took several weeks because of Ford Corp. approvals, parts orders, etc. I was given a rental during the complete rebuild. Overall I was treated well. Since then, supposedly because of the atmosphere aftermath that COVID has created, for the original factory warranty on my 2021 BSBB, it seems my current dealer is reluctant to diagnose issues in a timely manner and attempt to discourage new owners in leaving their vehicle for warranty service by making statements about delaying diagnosis and labor times to figure out what and where problems are coming from. Another tech found water stains in the headlining in the rear cargo area up against the back window. When the first Ford repair tech could not find where the leak was coming from. I explained to the service advisor to give it to another tech to diagnose and that I would not accept my vehicle back until they found the source of the leak and repair it. This forum helped me find other owners with the same issue and sent the info to the dealer. So I am thankful by sharing my recent experience so that other owners have a resource which may help support their repair claim.

 

[sajohnson]

Good morning & Happy New Year!

I'm curious to know what kind of experience those of you had using your Ford Protect Warranty? I've had almost zero issues with my 22" BB (other than one bad dealer experience due to poor workmanship). But... being that it is a 2022 and just rolled 26k miles I am considering making the investment to extend the warranty coverage in the event of a rainy day. I intend on paying this vehicle off early and keeping it for quite a while so I do see the financial benefit to the coverage.

It sounds like you've made up your mind, but FWIW, here's my usual 'extended warranty' post:

Extended warranties are of course a form of insurance. Purchasing insurance is "betting against the house". The house/underwriter always wins (on average, long-term) because they have all of the data. They know the typical cost of repairs, over a given period of time, for a specific vehicle. They take that amount and multiply it by an excessive factor (say 4x, just a guess) to get the list price.

Sure, just like in casinos, there are occasional "winners" -- and they will tell anyone who will listen how much money they saved. But for every winner there are a bunch of 'losers' -- people for whom the upfront cost of the warranty; plus lost interest on that money; plus the cost of deductibles is more than they would have paid out of pocket. Many people never even use the warranty. They do not go around announcing that they lost thousands of dollars. So we can get the impression that a warranty is a great deal -- when the opposite is true.

Even when fully aware of the above, there are two reasons people give for buying an extended warranty that are understandable:

1) They are concerned that, in the very unlikely event their vehicle needs really expensive repairs -- a new/rebuilt engine or transmission say -- they will not be able to cover the cost. They'd rather buy the warranty and have a known, firm limit on repair costs.

2) Piece of mind. They know that the warranty does not make financial sense, and while they may be able to afford any conceivable repairs, as with #1 they feel better having the costs capped.

When it comes to insurance/warranties the best policy is to be self-insured when possible. That's why many large corporations are self-insured -- it's cheaper in the long run.

Only purchase insurance for potentially huge/catastrophic costs -- life (if needed); health; auto; home.

The only time an extended warranty may make financial sense is when the owner knows something the underwriter doesn't. Like, say, they plan to do a lot of towing -- much of it on dirt/gravel roads -- with a trailer that is close to the max. weight, and max. frontal area.

 

[Tall Timbers]

I began purchasing the Ford extended warranties about a decade ago. I've only used it on one vehicle, our Ford Escape, and the dealerships took care of us like they would have any other customer. I like the peace of mind it gives me that at least during the warranty period I'm not going to get stuck with a massive bill if something fails on the vehicle, which is possible with any vehicle.

 

[coopny]

Warranties overall exist to make money. Even a dealer like Granger giving you a deal +$50 markup on dealer invoice, Ford is not losing money on Ford Protect.

The real key part of a manufacturer warranty is that Ford's parts cost, and ESP labor cost, are wayyyyyyy lower than what they will charge you for the part or charge you for out of warranty labor.

As an extreme example: Do you want to know what the Badlands emblem on the driver door costs? When a deer hit my car, I found out from the estimate, along with the part number (M1PZ16720F). $68.08. I searched that part right now and multiple parts websites are listing it for $45-$47. I could survive without a sticker, this is just an example of how marked up parts can be.

My driver side front headlight was fine from the deer collision (operated), but apparently it deformed the frame of the headlight as a sealed unit underneath, thus needing replacement. That part alone (absent labor) was more than $1,000. As it was a result of a deer it was a comprehensive claim and covered by GEICO (to the tune of just over $12K...) minus $500 deductible, but imagine if my headlight failed outside the bumper-to-bumper... I would be paying $1000+ to replace it.

We all hope that our cars are reliable and the warranty is a waste of money. But with the number of computer systems, sealed headlights, sensors, etc. that require parts with astronomical prices and specialized labor procedures these days, I would wager that being able to purchase a warranty for close to dealer invoice is good insurance.Yes, Ford is selling these for profit, not out of the goodness of their hearts... but our cost to resolve issues that are not within the bumper to bumper or powertrain warranties are not equal to Ford's.

 

[Mark S.]

We all hope that our cars are reliable and the warranty is a waste of money. But with the number of computer systems, sealed headlights, sensors, etc. that require parts with astronomical prices and specialized labor procedures these days, I would wager that being able to purchase a warranty for close to dealer invoice is good insurance.Yes, Ford is selling these for profit, not out of the goodness of their hearts... but our cost to resolve issues that are not within the bumper to bumper or powertrain warranties are not equal to Ford's.

The other option is to put the money you would've spent on a warranty in an interest-bearing account. If something breaks out of warranty there's no reason you must go to the dealer for repairs. If you have the skills you can do your own repairs, or look for a reputable local shop you can trust. The shop I use knows me, and they let me find my own parts if I can find them at lower prices than their supplier.

If no repairs are needed before you sell the vehicle then you are money ahead.

 

[coopny]

The other option is to put the money you would've spent on a warranty in an interest-bearing account. If something breaks out of warranty there's no reason you must go to the dealer for repairs. If you have the skills you can do your own repairs, or look for a reputable local shop you can trust. The shop I use knows me, and they let me find my own parts if I can find them at lower prices than their supplier.

If no repairs are needed before you sell the vehicle then you are money ahead.

I got a 10 year 100K warranty via Ford Protect for just under $3K. $3K is money, and $3K in March 2023 is probably worth ~$3.3K now with inflation. I doubt inflation will be that high for that long, but even then at that rate that is something to appreciate in terms of the value of money.

My repairs for the deer collision were not with the dealer, and were not unreasonable. Try checking the minimum shipping that the dealers quoting $45-$47 for the badlands sticker for driver door would ask.

If you can find a local shop that allows you to find parts with lower labor costs, I definitely encourage you to use them and support them, particularly if they will allow you to bring your own parts.

Part of the problem is that nowadays, "everything" is addressable via firmware and config module changes. This is wonderful as a way for the adventurous to change behavior and for the OEM's labor costs, but it makes a lot of operations prohibitively expensive. My 2015 Fusion had earlier lane keeping, and if you had a windshield replacement, it required a retraining. It didn't matter where you got the windshield from, you had to retrain. FORScan supported it if you had the know how, trusted it, etc... but the software retraining was more expensive than the windshield itself.

I'm not going to presume or lecture people on what to do, but the increasing integration of sensors, firmware, and cars has not lent itself kindly to self maintenance...

 

[sajohnson]

We all hope that our cars are reliable and the warranty is a waste of money. But with the number of computer systems, sealed headlights, sensors, etc. that require parts with astronomical prices and specialized labor procedures these days, I would wager that being able to purchase a warranty for close to dealer invoice is good insurance.Yes, Ford is selling these for profit, not out of the goodness of their hearts... but our cost to resolve issues that are not within the bumper to bumper or powertrain warranties are not equal to Ford's.

You make a good point about excessive stealership parts markups. That means the warranty rip-off factor is even worse than it seems at first glance.

For a simple example, let's say Ford sells an extended warranty just for the headlamp assembly. They know that, on average, (say) 1 in 50 Bronco Sports will need a headlight replaced. So $20 per vehicle warranty will cover the cost (but $0 profit) using the retail price . They jack the cost to $60-$80 and then attempt to scare the crap out of people by hammering on the $1,000 cost and exaggerating how common headlight replacements are (deer collisions, rocks, routine failures).

$60-$80 is 3-4x the anticipated cost, based on the $1,000 retail price. However, Ford's cost may actually be $500. So the warranty cost is 6-8x the average payout.

You make another good point about getting the warranty for a reduced cost. Obviously, at some price point, a warranty becomes a reasonable proposition. However, that cost is always going to be well under what they are willing to sell the warranty for.

Even when one can buy a warranty for "half price" (half of MSRP) -- it's still a bad deal. It MUST be, in order for them to be willing to sell it for that price.

Yes, modern vehicles are complicated. Some are also poorly made and unreliable. Parts are expensive, etc. That's all but irrelevant because the underwriter KNOWS all that. They have all of the data. They hold the cards. In order to beat them at their game, we must have knowledge that they don't (like my towing example above).

When we were buying our BS BL, both the salesman and the finance guy were trying desperately to sell us a crazy expensive extended warranty. They were fixated on it. They kept saying, essentially, that the BS was a total POS, it was going to break down, and it would be incredibly expensive to repair. Both repeatedly said the rear camera cost $850 to replace. That was their 'scary' example. I told them we'd both been driving about 45-50 years w/o any cameras, so if it broke I'd either find an aftermarket one and replace it myself, or do without. I could tell that was not the response they were looking for.

Also, my wife and I drive very little, so a warranty (including the standard one) is worth much less to us than most people. Any warranty we have will time out long before we reach the mileage limit. So we are much less likely to use any warranty.

 

[Mark S.]

Even when one can buy a warranty for "half price" (half of MSRP) -- it's still a bad deal. It MUST be, in order for them to be willing to sell it for that price.

I'm not sure I would classify it as a "bad deal." Extended warranties are simply insurance. Your car may never break, therefore the money you pay in goes to repair someone else's car. Some people pay for auto insurance their entire lives and never make a claim. Did they get a bad deal?

I really think it's a matter of personal choice (when it comes to ex warranties, not auto insurance). If you have the skill and know-how, extended-warranty costs seem high. If you don't, then it can certainly be a good deal, even if you never have to use it. As anyone who reads this forum on the regular knows, peace of mind is a HUGE part of a positive ownership experience.

 

[redbucky2022]

**update**
I was originally going to max out my coverage just for a piece of mind and pick every covered item apart to keep things tip top. Normally I do my own work to prevent errors from occurring but the cost of some of the parts on newer vehicles made me cringe. I had my timing cover resealed a few months ago under my b2b 36k warranty and they just couldn't get it right. It lead to some pretty strongly worded conversations with the Service Manager, the tech and Ford Customer service. To shut me up after I went off the deep end they have decided to offer me the top tier Ford Protect Premium Care plan. I guess I don't have to spend the money now Can't complain about it if it was free.

 

[rocks]

I will definitely buy a warranty from Granger if I decide to keep the BS. Like most vehicles today, too much electronics. Plus, the 1.5L has had its issues.

 

[Mark S.]

AARP (I'm not a member, but I do read stuff on its website occasionally) published an interesting piece on extended warranties.

https://www.aarp.org/money/budgeting-saving/info-2023/extended-warranties-guide.html

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