Dealership and personal info

[Humper]

So I posted yesterday about a 4wd Problem that popped up, I took my BS into another dealership this afternoon to see if I could get in any sooner, they pulled up my Vin and could see from my Vin the issues that were being reported by the BS in their computer system did I sign up somewhere for this level of what I think is privacy invasion, what else can they see, your location, location history, speed / braking history etc, is this info reported to insurance companies, how much info is being tracked by Ford and i guess other car companies?

Sponsored

 

[Dude]

Same for me, when mobile service came to swap out my OE battery under warranty for an AGM battery, the dealership already knew all the battery messages the vehicle had been providing. The tech didn’t bother to test the OE battery on-site.

There are quite a few posts regarding data collection, a search will bring those up … here is one of those:

https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/fordpass-complaint.12098/post-202238

 

[RSH]

When I went to the dealer for my Badlands 4WD fault the service writer pulled up a large list of codes as well without connecting a scanner. I have not found any information regarding this.
I'm do for an oil change I'll have to ask what other types of information can be accessed.

 

[curtcady]

Ford Pass App might be the source.

 

[Dude]

There’s various articles and posts on how Ford dealerships receive data from the vehicle

As stated, you can disable some of it via Settings on the Sync screen, and by opting out of FordPass, but you would also need to disable the telematics control unit (modem) to prevent vehicle data from getting to Ford

 

[Tigger]

is this info reported to insurance companies, how much info is being tracked by Ford and i guess other car companies?

I will just say this, I worked for an insurance company for over 20 years and more than 10 as the director of market research (read as collecting a ton of data on anyone and everyone). You would be shocked what data can be collected/bought. Just as an example, have you wondered why your credit score impacts insurance rates?

And just as an aside, the data collected on your car is not nearly as valuable as everything acquired from government entities.

 

[Its her Bronco]

The centet screen asks if you want to share your data periodically. The data the dealership can access shows them any codes that have been set in the control modules (engine, transmission ect). They cannot see how fast you drive, take corners or follow people. Throttle position, speed or brake activation are recorded in the black box and can be accessed by law enforcement in the event of a wreck.

 

[MoFoCo]

Look up LexisNexis...depending on the state you are registered in and consent you may or may not have knowingly given, they may be reporting your driving habits to your insurance carrier. A few OBD codes aren't too scary but this certainly is.

 

[Black Rob]

Look up LexisNexis...depending on the state you are registered in and consent you may or may not have knowingly given, they may be reporting your driving habits to your insurance carrier. A few OBD codes aren't too scary but this certainly is.

The lesson here… Don’t have bad driving habits.

 

[sajohnson]

The lesson here… Don’t have bad driving habits.

If only it was that simple. Behaving oneself certainly helps but:

Any number of situations can cause a driver to have to brake hard. There's no way to know whether it was their fault or not.

If a driver likes to floor it occasionally and accelerate hard up to the speed limit (or is forced to, in order to merge) does that cause demerits? One reason we bought the BS BL was because it's got a reasonable amount of power. It's nice to be able to use the performance we paid for.

Same for cornering. Some people enjoy high-g cornering. As long as they aren't doing a 4-wheel drift that should be fine, but at what point is the driver considered 'reckless' and given higher insurance rates?

Different vehicles have a wide range of capabilities. What is perfectly safe in a Mustang or Corvette might be very dangerous in a more top-heavy vehicle. In our case, Ford -- and any companies it sells our data to -- obviously know we're driving a BS, but in some cases the vehicle type is unknown or disregarded. A max g-force level is selected and applied to all vehicles, which is ridiculous.

Road conditions can vary a lot, and they are an unknown. What is no problem on a sunny day with smooth pavement and properly banked corners might be deadly in poor conditions.

I no longer have much of a personal stake in this, but before I retired back in 2010, it would have been a big concern, with a reverse commute (generally light traffic) 75-100 miles a day in a Cobb Stage II WRX.

I'll take more cops over cameras and remote monitoring any day. At least they have discretion. For example, one winter day the roads were snow covered and a coworker told me that on his way to work he passed a county cop that was running well under the limit. The cop lit him up and told him to slow down and not pass him. My coworker was traveling under the limit too, but faster than the cop thought was safe. Any speed camera or remote monitoring would obviously not have been triggered, because without knowing the conditions, it appeared that my coworker was being responsible, even if he had been doing the speed limit.

Lots of variables.

To answer the OP: Yes, everything you listed -- and more -- is monitored. There was an article posted here not too long ago that listed all of the auto mfrs that spy on their customers and whether or not they sell the data. Ford was one of the worst.

 

[Mark S.]

Any number of situations can cause a driver to have to brake hard. There's no way to know whether it was their fault or not.

If a driver likes to floor it occasionally and accelerate hard up to the speed limit (or is forced to, in order to merge) does that cause demerits? One reason we bought the BS BL was because it's got a reasonable amount of power. It's nice to be able to use the performance we paid for.

Not that I advocate Big Brother looking over my shoulder, but I think it would be relatively easy to differentiate between what you describe and a pattern of higher risk driving. The key word there is "pattern." An occasional foray toward the edges of the vehicle's performance envelope is different from living on the edge.

 

[coopny]

Look up LexisNexis...depending on the state you are registered in and consent you may or may not have knowingly given, they may be reporting your driving habits to your insurance carrier. A few OBD codes aren't too scary but this certainly is.

Ford does have a connected Telematics deal with LexisNexis like GM. It's supposedly part of an opt-in (you have to say yes) to get insurance discounts on telematics based driving.

However, if we trust this response from Ford, the data isn't going anywhere:

Ford hasn’t sold or shared any connected vehicle data to LexisNexis (or Verisk). While Ford announced exploratory partnerships with them, we haven't launch anything. ​

​

It’s up to you whether to share vehicle data with your insurer if you decide to seek a usage-based insurance policy. To become enrolled, you must both opt-in with your own insurance company, and AGAIN through a separate consent screen on your vehicle’s interface. Here is a sample of what that in-vehicle consent screen would look like:​

So, again, Ford has not launched anything with LexisNexis, and after the class action lawsuit where GM owners say their information was given to LexisNexis without their consent and increased their insurance rates/violated their privacy, I wouldn't hold my breath on it either.

It is way easier for Ford to let Allstate, Progressive, etc. either make people install an app on their phone or plug a module the insurer provides to track usage based auto insurance... if you make someone install/run/log into an app, or receive a physical electronic and plug it into the OBDII port, the person can't come back and say they weren't aware the data collection was happening, and in the case of app/OBDII device, Ford's hands are completely clean.

In terms of automotive privacy, Ford actually ranked middle of the pack in terms of automakers.

In terms of the more detailed review of the data actually collected - I can't say personally it's much of a surprise. If you will not use FordPass telematics, I would recommend you pull the fuse for the telematics control module and be done with it. The modem shouldn't send data back to Ford if the agreement is not accepted/turned on. If the fuse is pulled, it can't send any data back to Ford because it has no power.

I view the conveniences and security of FordPass (being able to find the real time vehicle location via app) as an acceptable tradeoff for potential privacy concerns. To each his own.

 

[sajohnson]

To the OP and anyone else interested: This is the article coopny linked to:
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/

Please read it or at least skim it. It contains many statements like these:

* "Nissan earned its second-to-last spot for collecting some of the creepiest categories of data we have ever seen. It’s worth reading the review in full, but you should know it includes your “sexual activity.” Not to be out done, Kia also mentions they can collect information about your “sex life” in their privacy policy. Oh, and six car companies say they can collect your “genetic information” or “genetic characteristics.” Yes, reading car privacy policies is a scary endeavor."

* "They’re all bad...all of the cars we researched earned our *Privacy Not Included warning label. All of the car brands we researched got our “data use” and “security” dings -- and most earned dings for poor data control and bad track records too! We can’t stress enough how bad and not normal this is for an entire product guide to earn warning labels."

* [Tesla's Customer Privacy Notice]: "If you choose to opt out of vehicle data collection (with the exception of in-car Data Sharing preferences), we will not be able to know or notify you of issues applicable to your vehicle in real time. This may result in your vehicle suffering from reduced functionality, serious damage, or inoperability."

Whenever the subject of privacy comes up, there are usually some people who say, "I have nothing to hide! Put cameras in every room of my home, and monitor my every move and action while driving -- as long as I get a shiny trinket in return..."

That's fine. As coopny said, "To each his own." However, what is often said, or implied, by those folks is that because they don't care, no one else should -- and car mfrs and other corporations should be free to Hoover up data on everyone.

It does not have to be a binary choice.

A better policy/law would eliminate the sneaky 'gotcha' games; separate data collection from other vehicle features (see Tesla above); and allow owners to select the level of data sharing they are comfortable with -- on an *OPT IN* basis.

The article links to this Mozilla petition:
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacy-for-all/

 

[sajohnson]

This is the Ford-specific article coopny linked to:
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/ford/

It is very comprehensive (and ugly). One good paragraph begins with:

"Henry Ford is quoted as once saying, “Don't find fault, find a remedy: anyone can complain.” So we'll end our story here with just that, a remedy rather than a complaint. Ford, here are some suggests for ways to remedy your terrible privacy practices: Collect much less data on people. Don't sell the personal information of your customers. Give your consumers the right to delete all their data, no matter where they live. Instead of opting people into the huge amounts of data collect you do by default, opt them out at first..."

Sponsored