AN OPINION ON THE EV MARKET

[wessermgm]

I don't think its click bait, nor do I think it is totally accurate. The marketplace is undergoing an evolution to EVs, but it needs to evolve there organically, not based upon some mandate or artificial line. Simply put, the tech exists for EVs, but it is too expensive for the average consumer and the grid has not been sufficiently hardened and boosted to replace millions of independent ICE power generators with grid power. We are at the hybrid stage of the evolution, where we can use hybrid tech to continue to generate power in the vehicles but reduce fuel consumption. That is somewhat cost effective and accessible to consumers. It just seems like they are hell bent to skip this stage and get to plug-ins for all. You can't just wave a wand and make it happen. 2035 will come and pass and ICE engines will be produced in the US because it will be necessary for them to be produced.

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[Cactus22]

2035 could have surprises. 12 years is a long time in tech, I suspect many battery/range issues will have been solved for the EVs themselves. The charging infrastructure? I think that’s gonna be the massive challenge with far too many points of failure. I believe the cars will be ready and on the market far before charging is everpresent/rapid like gas stations are for ICE vehicles.

 

[Bucko]

2035 could have surprises. 12 years is a long time in tech, I suspect many battery/range issues will have been solved for the EVs themselves. The charging infrastructure? I think that’s gonna be the massive challenge with far too many points of failure. I believe the cars will be ready and on the market far before charging is everpresent/rapid like gas stations are for ICE vehicles.

2035? It would certainly be a surprise if I'm around, or still driving. If I am, watch out!

 

[Tigger]

My main concern is resale/used cars. I know three people that have had EVs they have sold. They know when the batteries are going bad because of data they keep and all three sold them right on the front end because their vehicles were worth only as much as the new battery (or even less). Two sold to Carmax and one back to the BMW dealership. Now my understanding is that it is hard for the new owners to know the life remaining in those batteries.

Simply put, if the used car market for EVs becomes near obsolete or of almost no value, how do EVs endure?

 

[Dude]

My main concern is resale/used cars. I know three people that have had EVs they have sold. They know when the batteries are going bad because of data they keep and all three sold them right on the front end because their vehicles were worth only as much as the new battery (or even less). Two sold to Carmax and one back to the BMW dealership. Now my understanding is that it is hard for the new owners to know the life remaining in those batteries.

Simply put, if the used car market for EVs becomes near obsolete or of almost no value, how do EVs endure?

With lower cost replacement batteries which several companies are working on. Unless that occurs buying a used EV is risky as you stated.

 

[wireman]

2035? It would certainly be a surprise if I'm around, or still driving. If I am, watch out!

Me to. At least I'm cross country from you.

 

[Dude]

BYD (Build Your Dreams) production rolls out five millionth plug-in EV off the assembly line.

Anyone want to plot this production curve: 13 years to reach one million NEVs (new energy vehicles including plug in hybrids) produced, another 18 months to reach three million, then another 9 months to reach five million.

BYD has two major subsidiaries, BYD Auto and BYD Electronic. BYD Company manufactures automobiles, buses, electric bicycles, trucks, forklifts, solar panels and rechargeable batteries.

As far as I know, BYD sells worldwide but not in the USA.

https://electrek.co/2023/08/09/byd-production-celebrates-five-millionth-plug-in-ev-assembly-line/

 

[wireman]

BYD (Build Your Dreams) production rolls out five millionth plug-in EV off the assembly line.

Anyone want to plot this production curve: 13 years to reach one million NEVs (new energy vehicles including plug in hybrids) produced, another 18 months to reach three million, then another 9 months to reach five million.

BYD has two major subsidiaries, BYD Auto and BYD Electronic. BYD Company manufactures automobiles, buses, electric bicycles, trucks, forklifts, solar panels and rechargeable batteries.

As far as I know, BYD sells worldwide but not in the USA.

https://electrek.co/2023/08/09/byd-production-celebrates-five-millionth-plug-in-ev-assembly-line/

I'm on board the Hybrid or PHEV train. HP (non turbo's) and CVT transmissions are a concern for me though. All my vehicles since 2013 have been turbos. I like the performance.

EV, when I get senile enough and someone talks me into it.

 

[Pigpen]

Don't know about a death spiral but they sure are having trouble selling them. They are too damn expensive and impractical for most people. Hell, the auto industry as a whole is a mess. When an F-150 Lariat can have a sticker price over $88,000 it's time to regroup. Think about that, $88,000 for a pick-up truck. With taxes you have to be close or over a hundred grand for a truck. Not enough people are going to do that.

Trucks need to be offered as a base model free from any extras. Manual windows, no carpet, unpowered vinyl seats, manual transmission, nothing fancy. Offer an optional a/c unit. Provide a basic radio that can easily be replaced down the line. If I was in the market for a pick up truck, I’d try to find a rust free older model for cheap, and upgrade the suspension and brakes.

 

[Mark S.]

Trucks need to be offered as a base model free from any extras. Manual windows, no carpet, unpowered vinyl seats, manual transmission, nothing fancy. Offer an optional a/c unit. Provide a basic radio that can easily be replaced down the line. If I was in the market for a pick up truck, I’d try to find a rust free older model for cheap, and upgrade the suspension and brakes.

My neighbor has four older Chevy pickups sitting in his driveway at any given time--one for him and one for each of his boys. He's always on the lookout for trucks within a specific range of model years. Why? he says they are (or used to be) cheap, and easy to fix when they break.

 

[rocks]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times

Updated on August 11, 2023 12:51pm EDTMan forced to ditch Ford EV truck during family road trip to Chicago: ‘biggest scam of modern times’
Bala said he was initially motivated to buy an environmentally friendly vehicle as owning one is 'responsible citizenship'

By Bradford Betz FOXBusinesscloseA Canadian man is calling electric vehicles the "biggest scam of modern times" after his frustrating experience with an electric truck.

Dalbir Bala, who lives in the Winnipeg area, bought a Ford F150 Lightning EV in January for $115,000 Canadian dollars, plus tax, which translate to $77,495 in U.S. dollars, according to the Manufactuers Suggested Retail Price [MRSP]

He told FOX Business he needed the vehicle for his work, but also wanted something suitable for recreational activities such as driving to his cabin or going fishing. He also wanted an environmentally friendly vehicle as owning one is "responsible citizenship these days."

Dalbir Bala shares his frustrating experience after purchasing an electric truck. (Dalbir Bala / Fox News)

But Bala was quickly hit with the reality of owning and operating an EV soon after the purchase. The vehicle compelled him to install two charges – one at work and one at home – for $10,000. To accommodate the charger, he had to upgrade his home’s electric panel for $6,000.

In all, Bala spent more than $130,000 – plus tax.

Not long after the purchase, Bala got into a minor accident which, he said, required "light assembly" on the front bumper. Bala took the vehicle to the body shop and did not get it back for six months. He said no one from Ford answered his email or phone calls for help.



The limitations of the EV truck became even more apparent when Bala embarked on a chaotic 1,400-mile road trip to Chicago.

Ford
Fast charging stations – which only charge EV’s up to 90% – cost more than gas for the same mileage. On the family’s first stop in Fargo, North Dakota, it took two hours and $56 to charge his vehicle from 10% to 90%. The charge was good for another 215 miles.

The expenses quickly piled up after Bala purchased the electric truck. (Dalbir Bala / Fox News)

On the second stop, in Albertville, Minnesota, the free charger was faulty and the phone number on the charging station was of no help, he said. The family drove to another charging station in Elk River, Minnesota, but the charger was faulty there as well.

"This sheer helplessness was mind-boggling," Bala wrote in an online post. "My kids and wife were really worried and stressed at this point."



There were no other fast charging stations within range of Elk River and his vehicle only had 12 miles left.

"By now it was late afternoon. We were really stuck, hungry, and heartbroken," Bala said.

Bala ultimately had the vehicle towed to a Ford dealership in Elk River and rented a regular gas vehicle to complete the family’s trip to Chicago. The family picked up the F150 on their way back to Winnipeg.
"It was in [the] shop for 6 months. I can’t take it to my lake cabin. I cannot take it for off-grid camping. I cannot take for even a road trip," Bala wrote. "I can only drive in city – biggest scam of modern times."

Ford Motor Co. battery powered F-150 Lightning trucks under production at their Rouge Electric Vehicle Center in Dearborn, Michigan on September 20, 2022. (Photo by JEFF KOWALSKY / AFP) (Photo by JEFF KOWALSKY/AFP via Getty Images) (Getty Images)

Bala told FOX Business he believes the government needs to do more to "provide consumers with the right information."

"People have to make the right choices. I want to tell everybody to read my story," he said. "Do your research before even thinking about it and make a wiser choice."



"The actual thing they promised is not even close. Not even 50%. And once you buy it, you're stuck with it and you have to carry huge losses to get rid of that. And nobody is there to help you."

Ford, in a statement to FOX Business, noted that driving ranges can be impacted by weather and geography, but also acknowledged some of the challenges facing the industry.

"This customer's experience highlights the urgent need to rapidly improve access to public charging across the US and Canada. Ford's EV-certified dealers will install public-facing DC fast chargers at their dealerships by early 2024, providing alternative charging options to those available today. Ford was also the first in the industry to gain access to over 12,000 Tesla Superchargers for Ford drivers."

GM also announced a deal with Tesla Supercharger stations starting early next year with the use of an adapter plug, giving them access to 12,000-plus chargers.

Then, in 2025, GM will start integrating Tesla's North American Charging Standard (NACS) connecter design in GM's EV vehicles so customers can plug into a Supercharger without needing an adapter.

*This story, originally published on 8-10-22, has been updated to include Ford's statement and the clarification of Canadian vs. U.S. Dollars for the car price.

 

[Mark S.]

"People have to make the right choices. I want to tell everybody to read my story," he said. "Do your research before even thinking about it and make a wiser choice."

Sorry, but anyone who spends nearly $80k dollars on something without doing some basic research is not getting any sympathy from me. ALL of the issues mentioned in this article are discussed ad nauseum online by both consumers and the professional automotive press.

 

[Bucko]

Trucks need to be offered as a base model free from any extras. Manual windows, no carpet, unpowered vinyl seats, manual transmission, nothing fancy. Offer an optional a/c unit. Provide a basic radio that can easily be replaced down the line. If I was in the market for a pick up truck, I’d try to find a rust free older model for cheap, and upgrade the suspension and brakes.

Excuse my ignorance....can you get an EV with a manual transmission?

 

[Sig Oris]

Yep, It will never work. In my former state NJ, there are many crowded cities with multifamily homes and apartment houses with off-street parking only for the property owners and not the tenants. Will the many chargers needed for street parking on the street where they'll be vandalized even if installed? NFW! This is just in NJ. What about other states and places like Queens or Brooklyn NY? It's a Democratic pipedream.

Florio Free in 93 when I moved to Maine ?

 

[Sig Oris]

I am a stray current but not everyone will get that play on words

Maybe your future EV will connect to a Grounded Grid

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