Strange issues

[Davexxxx]

If I am reading Wireman's post correctly, the problem has nothing to do with the BMS. Either the battery is faulty or there is a phantom load draining it.

Measuring the current flow out of the battery with everything off would be helpful.

Not necessarily. The BMS is more than a simple flow meter. Because he is charging with the BMS still in the circuit, the BMS is wrongfully telling the charger the battery is full, when it isn't. This is exactly how mine acted.

As I've described the procedure, it is nothing more than bench charging the batt, without taking it out of the vehicle, then telling the BMS to start the count over from full.

If it then still fails, yes, it would be something else but this is a way to rule miscommunication between the batt and the BMS out.

But everyone has to do what makes them comfortable.

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[sajohnson]

Not necessarily. The BMS is more than a simple flow meter. Because he is charging with the BMS still in the circuit, the BMS is wrongfully telling the charger the battery is full, when it isn't. This is exactly how mine acted.

As I've described the procedure, it is nothing more than bench charging the batt, without taking it out of the vehicle, then telling the BMS to start the count over from full.

If it then still fails, yes, it would be something else but this is a way to rule miscommunication between the batt and the BMS out.

But everyone has to do what makes them comfortable.

As you said in your earlier post:

"You have to charge directly to the batt posts until full, then immediately reset."

And from above:

"As I've described the procedure, it is nothing more than bench charging the batt, without taking it out of the vehicle, then telling the BMS to start the count over from full."

That is correct. It's always best to have a drawing/schematic (picture is worth 1,000 words) even for something straight-forward, but that is what wireman seems to be doing -- connecting his charger directly to the battery posts (bypassing the BMS).

I'm somewhat familiar with BMS units. I installed a Victron "SmartShunt" in our RV to monitor the LiFePO4 batteries. When measuring their voltage, connections are made directly to the battery posts.

 

[Davexxxx]

As you said in your earlier post:

"You have to charge directly to the batt posts until full, then immediately reset."

And from above:

"As I've described the procedure, it is nothing more than bench charging the batt, without taking it out of the vehicle, then telling the BMS to start the count over from full."

That is correct. It's always best to have a drawing/schematic (picture is worth 1,000 words) even for something straight-forward, but that is what wireman seems to be doing -- connecting his charger directly to the battery posts (bypassing the BMS).

I'm somewhat familiar with BMS units. I installed a Victron "SmartShunt" in our RV to monitor the LiFePO4 batteries. When charging them or measuring their voltage, connections are made directly to the battery posts.

Nope. With the negative clamp to the fender bolt, the BMS is still in the circuit.

 

[sajohnson]

Nope. With the negative clamp to the fender bolt, the BMS is still in the circuit.

It's certainly still connected (it has not been touched) however, it is not in the charging circuit. The BMS does not affect charging or battery voltage measurement when both are done at the terminals -- or at the fender connection for the negative.

In some cases the BMS synchronization is the issue. A battery may be at/close to 100% SOC, but the BMS thinks otherwise and certain systems are shut down.

In Wireman's situation, the actual (not indicated) battery voltage is truly low, as measured with a meter. In a matter of 4 hours, it dropped from 12.8V to 12.2. The question is why? Faulty battery or parasitic load?

 

[Davexxxx]

It's certainly still connected (it has not been touched) however, it is not in the charging circuit. The BMS does not affect charging or battery voltage measurement when both are done at the terminals -- or at the fender connection for the negative.

You almost had it there. except the fender connection does go through the BMS and leaves the BMS in the charge circuit. Evidenced by factory charging instructions. I'm advising this one time, to go directly to the batt posts, as if it was out of the car. No place else.

In some cases the BMS synchronization is the issue. A battery may be at/close to 100% SOC, but the BMS thinks otherwise and certain systems are shut down.

Yes and the inverse can also be true, limiting charging, when more is needed. First hand experience on a 23 F150.

"In Wireman's situation, the actual (not indicated) battery voltage is truly low, as measured with a meter. In a matter of 4 hours, it dropped from 12.8V to 12.2. The question is why? Faulty battery or parasitic load?"

His further postings seem to likely indicate one or the other.

I guess we'll know soon enough.

 

[Dude]

@wireman same thing happened to me with my OE EFB (Battery)

you are wise NOT to do the BMS Reset at this time and I will explain why below

You are also wise at this time to ignore all of the helpful info regarding how to properly charge the battery - because it is clear the battery will not hold a charge and both Mark S and I concur you are properly charging the battery as Ford recommends

Reason is each time your battery SOC drops below a threshold where you are seeing the alert message, a notification is sent out to Ford’s database for your VIN which is a good thing and works in your favor

while you could have a parasitic drain as I mentioned on an earlier post, for now let’s assume that is not the case for your vehicle and we will assume for now you do not have other charging system issues like with the alternator

Instead the most likely reason is the battery has some form of internal “short” which is rapidly draining the battery and the battery will not hold a charge.

There are likely enough notifications sent out that your dealership service department could look up your VIN and see everything that has been logged

My recommendation is to schedule a mobile service with your dealership to replace the battery with (another) AGM.

The mobile tech most likely cannot do a full diagnostic on the battery that could be done at the dealership (because the mobile truck will not have the same load test tool that the dealership should have) but the tech can do that when the tech returns to the dealership after replacing your battery however the tech will be able to check the charging system to make sure there’s no obvious issues with the alternator etc.

if you prefer, you could also take your vehicle in for the battery service (Ford has posted that a battery check (and battery charge) is a free service (I posted about that recently)). The dealership should be able to do a load test on the battery and do a check of the charging system (I don’t know if that’s free).

Remember that because your OE Battery was replaced under warranty on 11-1-2023 with an AGM Motorcraft battery, that replacement battery is still covered under the vehicle’s 36 month 3 year factory warranty as long as that vehicle factory warranty is still valid.

Finally, if your battery is not in warranty, you can avoid the dealership and purchase a new high quality AGM Battery with a good warranty.

After the new AGM Battery is installed, then it is time to perform the BMS Reset Procedure.

 

[wireman]

@wireman same thing happened to me with my OE EFB (Battery)

you are wise NOT to do the BMS Reset at this time and I will explain why below

You are also wise at this time to ignore all of the helpful info regarding how to properly charge the battery - because it is clear the battery will not hold a charge and both Mark S and I concur you are properly charging the battery as Ford recommends

Reason is each time your battery SOC drops below a threshold where you are seeing the alert message, a notification is sent out to Ford’s database for your VIN which is a good thing and works in your favor

while you could have a parasitic drain as I mentioned on an earlier post, for now let’s assume that is not the case for your vehicle and we will assume for now you do not have other charging system issues like with the alternator

Instead the most likely reason is the battery has some form of internal “short” which is rapidly draining the battery and the battery will not hold a charge.

There are likely enough notifications sent out that your dealership service department could look up your VIN and see everything that has been logged

My recommendation is to schedule a mobile service with your dealership to replace the battery with (another) AGM.

The mobile tech most likely cannot do a full diagnostic on the battery that could be done at the dealership (because the mobile truck will not have the same load test tool that the dealership should have) but the tech can do that when the tech returns to the dealership after replacing your battery however the tech will be able to check the charging system to make sure there’s no obvious issues with the alternator etc.

if you prefer, you could also take your vehicle in for the battery service (Ford has posted that a battery check (and battery charge) is a free service (I posted about that recently)). The dealership should be able to do a load test on the battery (for free) and do a check of the charging system (I don’t know if that’s free).

Remember that because your OE Battery was replaced under warranty on 11-1-2023 with an AGM Motorcraft battery, that replacement battery is still covered under the vehicle’s 36 month 3 year factory warranty as long as that vehicle factory warranty is still valid.

Finally, if your battery is not in warranty, you can avoid the dealership and purchase a new high quality AGM Battery with a good warranty.

After the new AGM Battery is installed, then it is time to perform the BMS Reset Procedure.

Lee me know if you have any questions.

Thanks for all the info. The battery was replaced under the 3year factory warranty. I'm past that now. I don't know if this AGM battery would be prorated.

As I stated, with this recall in effect and the current AGM battery being Chinese made, I don't know if that would change things.

I will talk to my service advisor about my options and if I have to pay for a battery, it WON'T be a Motorcraft. I will replace it myself and do the reset.

FYI, I was told before with the same issue on my 2018 Escape, when the battery was replaced under the 3 year warranty, only the original battery was covered even if the 2nd battery went bad within the 3 years.

 

[Dude]

Thanks for all the info. The battery was replaced under the 3year factory warranty. I'm past that now. I don't know if this AGM battery would be prorated.

As I stated, with this recall in effect and the current AGM battery being Chinese made, I don't know if that would change things.

I will talk to my service advisor about my options and if I have to pay for a battery, it WON'T be a Motorcraft. I will replace it myself and do the reset.

FYI, I was told before with the same issue on my 2018 Escape, when the battery was replaced under the 3 year warranty, only the original battery was covered even if the 2nd battery went bad within the 3 years.

I believe that replacement battery is not prorated … that’s what I was told last summer when I got the replacement AGM Battery under the factory warranty … warranty went only through the 3 year 36 month factory warranty.

I also have not seen that recall 25S02 is applicable to any AGM battery .. we may need to wait and see on that

If you are going to the dealership you might as well avail yourself to the free battery check .. I posted on that but it did not say if it was the battery load test or just a simpler battery check

 

[sajohnson]

You almost had it there. except the fender connection does go through the BMS and leaves the BMS in the charge circuit. Evidenced by factory charging instructions. I'm advising this one time, to go directly to the batt posts, as if it was out of the car. No place else.



Yes and the inverse can also be true, limiting charging, when more is needed. First hand experience on a 23 F150.

"In Wireman's situation, the actual (not indicated) battery voltage is truly low, as measured with a meter. In a matter of 4 hours, it dropped from 12.8V to 12.2. The question is why? Faulty battery or parasitic load?"

His further postings seem to likely indicate one or the other.

I guess we'll know soon enough.

I'm glad we agree that it's either a faulty battery or parasitic load.

I use the battery terminals to connect the Battery Tender (BT), but in general it is good practice to get in the habit of using that fender connection for the neg(-) battery cable. It's safer in a situation where there may be arcing (jump starting for example) and electrically it is identical to the Neg(-) battery post.

BTW, I tried to find the factory charging instructions. I have the PDF of the 2022 BS owner's manual. There is some battery info in it but nothing about charging.

 

[sajohnson]

I believe that replacement battery is not prorated … that’s what I was told last summer when I got the replacement AGM Battery under the factory warranty … warranty went only through the 3 year 36 month factory warranty.

What some companies do is transfer the remainder of the original warranty to the replacement part/item/product.

Maybe Ford does that with batteries? For example, the OE battery fails after 2 years, so the replacement has the remaining 1 year warranty. It's not much but it's something.

 

[Davexxxx]

I use the battery terminals to connect the Battery Tender (BT), but in general it is good practice to get in the habit of using that fender connection for the neg(-) battery cable. It's safer in a situation where there may be arcing (jump starting for example) and electrically it is identical to the Neg(-) battery post.

I agree, it is a best practices type of thing but more important on a typical lead acid, than AGM and unfortunately, leaves the BMS in the circuit, which I was trying to eliminate.

BTW, I tried to find the factory charging instructions. I have the PDF of the 2022 BS owner's manual. There is some battery info in it but nothing about charging.

They sure don't make it easy to find but an important difference I did see, is that the OP's 21 manual is very different than the 22, or 24.

This is not listed (at least not in the same place) in the 21 manual but is in the 22 and 24.

"After battery replacement, or in some cases after charging the battery with an external charger, the battery management system requires eight hours of vehicle sleep time to relearn the battery state of charge. During this time, your vehicle must remain fully locked with the ignition switched off."

As well as the BMS reset procedure, as outlined in one of the previous vids.

"Battery Sensor Reset
When you install a new battery, reset the battery sensor by doing the following:

1. Switch the ignition on, and leave the engine off.

Note: Complete Steps 2 and 3 within 10 seconds.

1. Flash the high beam headlamps five times, ending with the high beams off.

1. Press and release the brake pedal three times.

The battery warning lamp flashes three times to confirm that the reset is successful."

 

[Davexxxx]

Thanks for all the info. The battery was replaced under the 3year factory warranty. I'm past that now. I don't know if this AGM battery would be prorated.

As I stated, with this recall in effect and the current AGM battery being Chinese made, I don't know if that would change things.

I will talk to my service advisor about my options and if I have to pay for a battery, it WON'T be a Motorcraft. I will replace it myself and do the reset.

FYI, I was told before with the same issue on my 2018 Escape, when the battery was replaced under the 3 year warranty, only the original battery was covered even if the 2nd battery went bad within the 3 years.

I hope you get the situation resolved satisfactorily and report back what was determined to be the problem.

 

[wireman]

I'm going to do a voltage check on the battery again this morning.

Dude, I believe your right about a replacement battery warranty, only good till the end of the 3 year warranty. I doubt Ford will cover the cost for another battery unless somehow the recall comes into play. The free battery check is questionable. I doubt if it's a full load test but I will check.

I will check with my S.A. today and see what he says. I sure as hell won't be waiting till Ford decides if this "China" battery will be covered on the recall.

With the issues I had on Escape, 2 Motorcraft batteries and then having to buy 1 on my own, and now on my 2nd on the BS, Ford's batteries are off my list.

I'll report back when this is resolved. Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[Uncle Brad]

2021 BS BL. Back history. Car came with an EFB battery. Battery was replaced under warranty on 11-1-2023 with an AGM Motorcraft battery, manufacturer date of 9-2023. I looked at the battery today and it says made in China.

I did get the recall letter but not sure if it will apply to the second battery.

Now to my problem. Over the last couple of months the start/stop function stopped working. That's what happened the 1st time and the battery was replaced.

Over the last 10 days or so I keep getting the message, System off to save battery on the center screen. Today I charged the battery to 100% and 12.8 volts. Drove about 20 miles and back home. I shut it off, let it go to sleep, and turned the ignition on and the message was back.

This was 4 hours later. Battery voltage was at 12.2 volts. With an AGM battery 12.2 volts is about 60% S.O.C. So, 4 hours later it went from 100% to 60%.

Alternator is charging at 14.6 volts. I disconnected the + battery cable for 5 minutes and reconnected it. This seemed to clear the message on the center screen. I'll check it again tomorrow to see if it returns. I'm guessing another battery going bad. So with the recall we'll see if it will be replaced a 2nd time on their dime. If not, I'll buy something else besides what Ford has to offer, Costco or maybe Sam's.

Another issue but I'm not sure if it's related. The passenger door touch sensor will not lock or unlock any doors. Drivers side works fine. I can lock or unlock the doors with the passenger side inside buttons, just not the outside. This started about a week ago.

Appreciate any input.

>>The passenger door touch sensor will not lock or unlock any doors. Drivers side works fine.

I had the same problem on my Big Bend, but on the driver's side door, where the door handle touch sensor was intermittent.

 

[wireman]

Issue resolved. Ford would not replace the battery under warranty which I figured they wouldn't.
The replaced AGM in the vehicle now will not be under the recall.

They would install a new Motorcraft AGM for $250 with a 3 year full warranty. I passed on that.

I won't get into the conversation I had with my SA, but it was dodge and spinning reasons why it won't be covered.

So after doing research from Autozone, O'Reilly's, Costco, Sam's Club, and Walmart,
factoring in cost, warranty, etc. I bought a Walmart Everstart AGM, factory specs for $212.00

I wanted to go with the Costco Interstate battery, but they changed their warranty to 3 year and it's prorated. About the same price as the Everstart.

The Walmart Everstart is a 4 year full replacement, not prorated. The most bang for the buck.

Installed it and did the BMS reset. Door locks and Auto S/S working again. A little work installing it but way easier than my 2013 Escape was.

We'll see how it goes.

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