Update on the 1.5L drain hose recall from NHTSA.

rocks

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Did the drain tube/PCM Programming apply to yours and was the 22N18 customer satisfaction program attached to your VIN? If so then your vehicle should be included (in my opinion).
Being it's 5/23 build, with the above letter stating that that is for Ford Bronco Sport vehicles produced between October 17, 2022 and January 13, 2023, I assume it was done at Ford. The only recall showing on my Ford app and online acct is the updated programming of the PCM and BSM.
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Being it's 5/23 build, with the above letter stating that that is for Ford Bronco Sport vehicles produced between October 17, 2022 and January 13, 2023, I assume it was done at Ford. The only recall showing on my Ford app and online acct is the updated programming of the PCM and BSM.
That makes sense. And your earlier post seemed to imply the recall didn’t apply to your vehicle … “Updated fuel injectors?”
 

rocks

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That makes sense. And your earlier post seemed to imply the recall didn’t apply to your vehicle … “Updated fuel injectors?”
I was wondering if my BS and others built after that 1/23/24 date have the updated fuel injectors or just the tube.
 

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I was wondering if my BS and others built after that 1/23/24 date have the updated fuel injectors or just the tube.
Best to contact your dealership

However there are 2 known fuel injector part numbers (as of today) and as stated on other posts, both have been noted to crack and leak fuel. You could search for those other posts for that information.
 

rocks

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Best to contact your dealership

However there are 2 known fuel injector part numbers (as of today) and as stated on other posts, both have been noted to crack and leak fuel. You could search for those other posts for that information.
That isn't good news. Oh well.
 


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no news about this? i assume it will be a while. id be totally fine if ford swapped the 2.0l in lol. i dont get how these have so many little issues, i thought they've been using these dragon engines in the UK for a while now. had water pump replaced already because it was weeping at 20k miles.

then the Brake recall before that where Ford just did a pad slap and the replacement pads squeal and hum in reverse and get the wheels dirty AF in like 2 days.

i think there was a PCM flash before that.

my MK3 ST has only ever had 1 recall for harness splices that i went ahead and did myself because the vin didnt qualify but, i was having the issue caused by the bad splices.
 

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I purchased my BS in Jan 22. In Jan 23 I was contacted by a law firm in Detroit who asked if I wanted to be represented in Class Action Lawsuit related to the fuel injector issue. I agreed and was officially made a plaintiff in the lawsuit. At that time there were 5 plantiffs, three of which had vehicle fires directly related to their fuel injectors or fuel system. In my case I was just a random BS owner picked from a insurance data base. At most I thought I would get new Fuel Injectors. The case was eventually dismissed as there was not enough evidence to warrant compensation.
The devil is in the details as they say. I wasn't involved in any court proceedings directly so I don't know what was discussed. In the end, like everyone else I had the drain hose hose installed. Since then I suspect there has been additional fuel injector related issue's. Maybe not a fire but leaking due to cracked injectors. This is most likely why NTSB reopened the case. Whether or not it will progress to a full blown injector replacement program remains to be seen. However there seems to be merit to reopen the case.
At the moment all we can do is sit back and see where it goes but if I put money on it, the safe bet is to replace the fuel injectors. All it takes is one person getting burned for Ford to be liable. Considering the issue is a real one I don't see how Ford could say otherwise.
 

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… This is most likely why NTSB reopened the case. Whether or not it will progress to a full blown injector replacement program remains to be seen. However there seems to be merit to reopen the case.
At the moment all we can do is sit back and see where it goes but if I put money on it, the safe bet is to replace the fuel injectors.
Agree with everything you said but replace the fuel injectors with .. what? There are multiple part #’s and so far all have had incidents of cracking and leaking. Are you aware of a part replacement that does not crack?
 

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I looked into replacing the injectors myself. As far as I can tell there are three avaiable, same ones most likely but sold under a different lable. I've never replaced an injector before so I can't say what other components go along with it. My initial thought is there is stress induced by the fuel lines that feed the injectors. Rather or not that is the case I couldn't say for sure. At the moment I will wait and see where this new inquiry goes.
 

Mark S.

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All it takes is one person getting burned for Ford to be liable.
It's this kind of hyperbole that leads to unsubstantiated rumor. These cars have been in operation for over four years now, and there have been NO CASES of injury related to fuel system malfunctions. There is little danger to vehicle occupants from an engine fire because of the purpose-made firewall between the engine compartment and the cabin. Further, there isn't enough fuel in the fuel lines forward of the firewall to support an explosion.

If your car experiences a fuel injector leak you will almost certainly notice it BEFORE the engine catches fire; you'll smell fuel around the engine compartment, or see fuel on the ground underneath. If your engine does catch fire simply get out of the vehicle. If you carry a fire extinguisher you can open the hood and put out the fire to limit the damage. Either way, you are in little physical danger from fire related to this recall.
 


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Most likely Ford will wait this out and keep their own legal team on top of it to ward off a mass recall. When I was contacted to be a part of a class action I did have information on the other litigants. There were two fires attributed to a "fuel event" and those were non injury events. The devil is in the details and it was those details that I wasn't privy too. At any rate two fires doesn't warrant a mass recall. This was 18 months ago, since then there may have similar events that added together might be close to the recall threshold. Thats up to the NTSB to figure out.
At this point it is just another potential recall. Some law firms love class action lawsuits. Some are justified as this one might be. Others are just fishing trips to bring in business.
 

coopny

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I'm glad I have a 2.0L...

The existing recall fix is a band-aid. To be clear however, I am not arguing against the existing recalls as is. Safety belongs in layers. The fact that fuel leaks can leak easily onto hot areas that can cause an under hood fire merits the drain hose portion of the recall, and improving software detection of fuel pressure levels so that if certain parameters drop, the car can realize a potential leak and alert the driver to stop operation of the vehicle/have it towed to a dealer is also another layer of mitigating catastrophe (an underhood fire).

(Apparently the software fix in the latest recall puts the car in limp mode if it thinks a fuel leak has occurred - high pressure fuel pump disables, engine power is cut, cut temperatures in the engine compartment, and throw a "seek service" message on the gauge cluster screen to the driver.)

However, both of these are not addressing the root cause of this recall, which is failure of the fuel injectors themselves. By all accounts I've read, the revised part numbers have still failed and cracked. Combine that with the fact that Ford is covering cracked fuel injectors as a customer satisfaction program (replace once if found cracked with extended coverage beyond factory warranty, but not proactively replacing them) and the actual underlying problem of the fuel injectors cracking has not been resolved.

Now if people had the replaced part number installed and no fuel injector cracks on the new part, then we could just chalk that up to Ford not wanting to spend the money for the $$$ of parts and labor to proactively exchange the fuel injectors before they crack. But the fact that the new injectors are still cracking means that, as the NHTSA has said, that Ford has not solved the real underlying problem.

Let's play devil's advocate for our friends in Dearborn for a minute. The problem is relatively rare, some say. Well, going back to the first drain tube recall:

Consumer Reports said:
In documents provided to NHTSA, Ford says it is aware of five fires, 14 warranty claims, and no crashes or injuries related to the group of vehicles recalled today. A timeline filed with NHTSA indicates four possible injuries and 43 legal claims related to the 2022 recall.
So people have been injured by underhood fires in the 1.5L BS models.

Ford needs to figure it out and address it. The NHTSA is correct that Ford needs to figure out why the fuel injectors are cracking, and what can be done to fix that problem.

It's this kind of hyperbole that leads to unsubstantiated rumor. These cars have been in operation for over four years now, and there have been NO CASES of injury related to fuel system malfunctions.
See my last quote. At least four people have been injured as a result of underhood fires before the original 1.5L drain tube recall (no injuries reported to Ford for the expanded set of vehicles added to the drain tube recall in April 2024).
 

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Interesting, there needs to be clarification on injuries, some careful wording there. Sounds to me the issue is alive and well and heading towards an eventual recall. A fire is serious business, people panic easily and can get hurt just trying to avoid a fire, extract passengers, save the dog, etc. I would bet this issue is going full court litigation very soon.
 

Mark S.

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So people have been injured by underhood fires in the 1.5L BS models.
That's not exactly what the document says.

In documents provided to NHTSA, Ford says it is aware of five fires, 14 warranty claims, and no crashes or injuries related to the group of vehicles recalled today. A timeline filed with NHTSA indicates four possible injuries and 43 legal claims related to the 2022 recall.
Until those have been confirmed there is no evidence anyone has been injured as a result of an engine fire. My guess is these "possible" injuries are directly related to the legal claims.
 

coopny

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Until those have been confirmed there is no evidence anyone has been injured as a result of an engine fire. My guess is these "possible" injuries are directly related to the legal claims.
This is getting into a semantics game where Ford is calling them "potential injuries" to the NHTSA as a way to not directly admit legal liability in the ensuing lawsuits as a result of these fires.

The class action paperwork acknowledges two injuries directly as of Feb 2023 when the class action was filed:
To date, Ford has admitted that there have been at least 54 reports of under-hood fires6 in a vehicle population of 521,778.7 Of these fires, 17 have been confirmed as likely the result of a cracked fuel injector,8 and at least two of these fires resulted in injuries.9 Ford estimates that one percent of all Fire Risk Vehicles have the fuel injector defect.10 This equates to over 5,000 vehicles that may experience a catastrophic fire. Given the severe damage and injury a vehicle fire can cause, the rates of a defect leading to a fire must be near zero to be tolerable.

Going to what they filed with the NHTSA:
Ford is aware of no fatalities, four alleged injuries from two separate incidents, and (43) legal claims from a fire potentially attributable to this condition. The claims of injury were reported to Ford on July 5, 2021 and November 26, 2021.

Ford will use the term "alleged" for ass covering legally, and it makes sense. It tells the NHTSA the scope that four people in two different car fires claimed injuries. The "alleged" does not admit liability of Ford in court which allows Ford to more effectively dispute or settle lawsuits relating from said injuries for a lower amount.

The Letson class action was dismissed because it was filed after the recall came out, along with other issues (proving that the fire was from a fuel injector leak).

But hey, let's review the latest from the NHTSA. They're asking for the whole kit and kaboodle: provide all documents regarding the defect back through 2017, all individuals involved with it on any communications, all records relating to it or cracked fuel injectors, etc., all lawsuits regarding underhood fires, warranty claims, labor codes, DTCs, diagnostic SSM/TSB/etc., all internal documentation given to employees and dealers about it, test results, the modification in question, etc...

Along with some information I think any 1.5L owner would want to know as what the recall does.

Please provide a detailed summary as to how each of the software updates contribute to resolving the alleged defect for each of the following items:
a. Detection of a pressure drop in the fuel rail
i) What is the pressure drop threshold for triggering detection?
ii) How much time elapses between cracking of the subject component and detection?

b. Instrument cluster messaging to the customer to seek service
i) What parameters must be met to trigger the seek service messaging?
ii) What visual and auditory messaging does the software activate?
iii) Does the messaging remain activate until service is performed, or can it be overridden?
c. Disablement of the high-pressure fuel pump
i) How is the high-pressure fuel pump disabled and what effect does this have on other components within the entire fuel system?
ii) How does a disabled high-pressure fuel pump affect vehicle performance?
d. Derating engine power output
i) What parameters must be met to initiate derating of the engine power output?
ii) What is the amount of reduction in vehicle power (i.e. limitations of speed, RPM, etc.)?
iii) Does the engine derating occur immediately following the detection of pressure drop or is there a time delay?

Basically, this has reached a point where the NHTSA not only doesn't trust the information that ford has volunteered (four alleged injuries), but has used their legal power to compel Ford to provide a shitload of data for the NHTSA to be able to conduct their own investigation because they don't trust Ford to have properly investigated/disclosed this.

So for me, the "four alleged injuries" is really irrelevant, especially because Ford does not disclose who the plaintiffs are or if they reached confidential settlements. These numbers (4 injuries first recall/none in the second recall) would also only be specific within the classes (dates/production/etc.) of vehicles that applied at the time of the recall being disclosed to the NHTSA, and does not reflect additional reports or lawsuits that Ford has had since.

It's possible that the NHTSA digs in and finds nothing, but given the nature of the request, they believe Ford hasn't actually fixed the underlying problem, and is taking an approach of verifying the information in question rather than just taking Ford at their word on disclosures.
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