Oil & filter change intervals / frequency

[coopny]

OK, maybe I'm being old and grumpy, but using the IOLM seems unnecessarily complicated and restrictive. One FAQ:

Is there a driving distance requirement to receive oil life estimates?
"In order to receive the estimated due date and distance remaining, your vehicle must have been driven for 150 trips for the driving pattern to be detected and the estimates to be considered valid. If the driving pattern is not predictable, the service estimates will not be displayed."

Fortunately, we don't drive much, so the oil is changed every year. No need to mess with the IOLM.

You're quoting something confusingly named similarly, but a different feature.
The IOLM in your vehicle runs constantly.
The "FordPass Oil Life Service Reminder" is a complementary related feature that, rather than just displaying the percentage of oil life remaining, sends telematics data back through FordPass connect (if enabled with telematics data exchange permission granted).

Based on this data, if there is enough of it and it is predictable (trips are wildly different to the point where margin for potential error is unacceptable), in addition to displaying an oil life remaining percentage (which comes directly from the IOLM), on the "oil life screen" of FordPass it will display an estimated service date (month and year). For me, the oil was changed at ~3000 miles, I have ~8500 miles on the car now (so 5300 miles since last oil change), and my oil life is 44%, estimated oil change July 2024, additional mileage 3800... so based on my driving patterns, basically FordPass thinks my oil will be fine up to 10,000 miles, but not the upper range of 12,500 for normal operating conditions:

This is all fun for me to keep in the back of my head, but I'm in cold Northeast winters. The car will be started more often remotely, idling for more time, at colder temps. The starts of my drives will be the engine working while the engine isn't fully at heat yet. The IOLM will account for this, feed the data back to Ford via Fordpass, and based on my new trend for oil life, update the oil change estimate. I would expect this date to move up sooner based on winter driving conditions.

The key part is that the IOLM itself doesn't require FordPass. My 2015 Ford Fusion had IOLM but no FordPass Connect modem. When the oil life got to 5%, change oil soon message on the gauge cluster screen. Your BS will do the same, even without 150 trips.

Also of note: "150 trips" for the FordPass time/date estimate beyond % oil life is not "we're driving 4 hours to Grandma's house and back" is one trip... it's when the car is started engine on, moves, and stops. If you're a delivery driver and start and stop to deliver ten houses, that's ten trips. If you're doing errands in town one day and go to the pharmacy, post office, and grocery store, that's four trips, assuming no stops are walking distance and you stop the engine (home -> pharmacy, pharmacy -> post office, post office -> grocery store, grocery store -> home).

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[Dude]

@coopny you stated:
“The IOLM in your vehicle runs constantly”

“FordPass Oil Life Service Reminder" is a complementary related feature that, rather than just displaying the percentage of oil life remaining, sends telematics data back through FordPass connect (if enabled with telematics data exchange permission granted)”

It’s all one source of oil life data right? The IOLM is the source of the data and both the FordPass Oil Life screen displays the data (including sending telematics data to Ford per your statement) and the change oil message on the instrument cluster will be displayed if needed. Both of these come from the IOLM data.

 

[coopny]

@coopny you stated:
It’s all one source of oil life data right? The IOLM is the source of the data and both the FordPass Oil Life screen displays the data (including sending telematics data to Ford per your statement) and the change oil message on the instrument cluster will be displayed if needed. Both of these come from the IOLM data.

The IOLM is the source of the raw data and the percentage of oil life. This is in turn fed back to Ford (if FordPass connectivity is allowed/turned on). The IOLM always runs. There is no limit on 150 trip minimum, or sometimes not being able to generate oil life as a percent.

What can vary in accuracy, or not be generated if there aren't enough trips or the trips vary too wildly, is to use the raw data and % of oil life to estimate a date (Month, year) and mileage (3200 miles to next oil change). That is what the "150 trips" thing is about.

Your gauge cluster and the oil life as a % in FordPass are being fed directly by the IOLM.
The other outputs, if displayed in FordPass, are using the IOLM raw and percentage data to estimate the timing and "miles to go" to the next oil change.

The reason on the month/date estimate being variable is no two trips are exactly alike but you can average it out pretty reasonably for most people on a trend curve (changing your forecast over time with new data of course).

Calculating a percentage oil life remaining is just based on all of the inputs (engine temp, oil temp, air temp, RPMs, is a trailer hooked up, etc.) and putting it through an algorithm that determines, with all of those in mind, how much stress is being put on the oil... the oil life as % is always being continuously calculated by the vehicle as it runs. The others (estimated month/date of oil change) are extrapolations trying to take the averages and align it to a probable date and mileage to the next oil change.

There's a reason the date/mileage to go are labeled "Est."(estimated) and the oil life as a percentage is not...

 

[redbucky2022]

I run full syn Amsoil 5w20 and a Motorcraft filter every 5 k miles. Someone will step in and say 10k is just fine and say how oil technology is evolved.... I don't trust that. Most service intervals today are built around planned obsolescence. My 22' BSBB has already had its fluids changed at 20 k miles and will be changed annually.

 

[Mark S.]

Most service intervals today are built around planned obsolescence.

Do you have data to support this claim?

 

[redbucky2022]

Do you have data to support this claim?

As an ex-technician I can promise you there is no such thing as a "lifetime" fluid. Fluids are being engineered to be thinner and get worked harder, all in the name of fuel economy. If you dropped the trans pan on a vehicle with 20k miles or popped the diff cover I think you'd be shocked at how much much material is floating around just from the break-in period. Now.. circulate that around for 60k to 80k miles.... you followed the service interval but already shortened the life of that component right out of the gate.

I can jump down the rabbit hole of planned obsolescence but boy does it go deep.

 

[coopny]

As an ex-technician I can promise you there is no such thing as a "lifetime" fluid.

Not to discount your experience and what you've seen - I am curious for further discussion - but I don't think anybody in this thread has ever argued that there are "lifetime fluids" in the BS.

If we want to go down the rabbit hole of whether or not manufacturer service intervals are sound or either "planned obsolescence" designed to push your car to fail at what consumers would consider an "acceptable" point after warranty, or just designed to sell cars by putting a false emphasis on non-intrusive/lower TCO longer service intervals, then that's a discussion, because we're discussing whether the IOLM can be trusted, and whether oil changes of 12.5K/7.5K can be sound based on driving habits... but trying to discuss it in terms of anyone here positioning a fluid as "lifetime" in an internal combustion engine car is not accurate.

I will say a lot of techs are bad on doing recommended maintenance unless I literally print the list of whatever Ford recommends for XX,XXX miles or Y years of service and then manually run down each item on the checklist that I want checked or absolutely done. I don't know if it's time saving or "if it ain't broke don't fix", but unless I run down the list with the tech I typically only get a multipoint inspection... you'd think going to the dealership that saying "Do whatever Ford says should be done at X miles/Y years" would result in them happy billing more work.

I can virtually guarantee you that having worked with multiple Ford dealers in my area that none will proactively prompt me in March 2026 (3 years) saying "Gee Coop, you've had your car for three years now. Ford's maintenance schedule says you should change the brake fluid, would you like us to do that at a price of $XXX.XX?"

The other side of being a service tech is...you tend to see problem vehicles more often. Lemon lawed vehicles with electrical gremlins, major failures, contaminated fluids. You don't tend to drop the transmission pan on a vehicle with 20K miles unless you're investigating a problem the customer reported and believed it might be transmission related.

 

[redbucky2022]

Not to discount your experience and what you've seen - I am curious for further discussion - but I don't think anybody in this thread has ever argued that there are "lifetime fluids" in the BS.

If we want to go down the rabbit hole of whether or not manufacturer service intervals are sound or either "planned obsolescence" designed to push your car to fail at what consumers would consider an "acceptable" point after warranty, or just designed to sell cars by putting a false emphasis on non-intrusive/lower TCO longer service intervals, then that's a discussion, because we're discussing whether the IOLM can be trusted, and whether oil changes of 12.5K/7.5K can be sound based on driving habits... but trying to discuss it in terms of anyone here positioning a fluid as "lifetime" in an internal combustion engine car is not accurate.

I will say a lot of techs are bad on doing recommended maintenance unless I literally print the list of whatever Ford recommends for XX,XXX miles or Y years of service and then manually run down each item on the checklist that I want checked or absolutely done. I don't know if it's time saving or "if it ain't broke don't fix", but unless I run down the list with the tech I typically only get a multipoint inspection... you'd think going to the dealership that saying "Do whatever Ford says should be done at X miles/Y years" would result in them happy billing more work.

I can virtually guarantee you that having worked with multiple Ford dealers in my area that none will proactively prompt me in March 2026 (3 years) saying "Gee Coop, you've had your car for three years now. Ford's maintenance schedule says you should change the brake fluid, would you like us to do that at a price of $XXX.XX?"

The other side of being a service tech is...you tend to see problem vehicles more often. Lemon lawed vehicles with electrical gremlins, major failures, contaminated fluids. You don't tend to drop the transmission pan on a vehicle with 20K miles unless you're investigating a problem the customer reported and believed it might be transmission related.

I'm not implying that any BS has lifetime fluids. I'm using it as an example because that is common terminology today. Everyone is welcome to do as they wish But I can promise you I'm not the only one following this theory.

https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/threads/transmission-fluid-maintenance.28727/page-2

 

[Mark S.]

If you dropped the trans pan on a vehicle with 20k miles or popped the diff cover I think you'd be shocked at how much much material is floating around just from the break-in period.

No, I don't think I would. The question would be is there more material than the manufacturer accounted for when setting standard service intervals. If so, then that would warrant further inspection of the component to determine the source of contaminants.

Oils, lubricants (and other fluids) are designed to hold contaminants in suspension, such that they do no harm to the component. Service intervals are set such that contaminants are flushed from the component before they accumulate to a level where they can interfere with the fluid's primary job (lubrication, cooling, etc.).

Part of Ford's recommended service schedule for ALL of the vehicles it sells includes inspection of various fluids--including transmission fluid--and replacement if required. If Ford was engaged in planned obsolescence then why would it include such recommendations? Why would it publish fluid inspection/replacement procedures for technicians?

 

[Mark S.]

I'm not implying that any BS has lifetime fluids. I'm using it as an example because that is common terminology today. Everyone is welcome to do as they wish But I can promise you I'm not the only one following this theory.

https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/threads/transmission-fluid-maintenance.28727/page-2

Are you aware of any widespread issues with the 8F35 transmission related to service intervals? If so, please share the data.

 

[RSH]

The owners manual says to check the transmission fluid at every service.
If this check is performed, fluid level, color, smell and consistantcy of the fluid if in question can be addressed.
You dont have to wait for the "normal" transmission fluid service interval of 150,000 miles.
The owners manual has different service intervals depending on vehicle use and driving conditions.

A number of people here that pride themselves on doing their own maintenace, I very much doubt that the majority of them have even checked the transmission fluid.
Most people dont even read the owners manual.

 

[RDS40]

Some mechanics say frequent oil changes make all the difference in performance and longevity of an engine. So I'm just fishing to see what others are doing.

Would that be the mechanics that get paid to do oil changes?

 

[Mrmike]

This debate is like the one about regular vs. premium gasoline. Everyone has their own opinion on these issues. The bottom line is that it is your vehicle. Do what YOU feel is best for YOUR vehicle. End of discussion.

 

[coopny]

This debate is like the one about regular vs. premium gasoline. Everyone has their own opinion on these issues. The bottom line is that it is your vehicle. Do what YOU feel is best for YOUR vehicle. End of discussion.

Gasoline is a totally different discussion. Premium will give a little extra horsepower, which is good if you want that and are fine with the price difference. It's also good if you're towing.

Regular gas, so long as it's 87 octane minimum, works perfectly fine in a BS. Modern engines have knock sensors and will adjust the timing to avoid knocking.

The only area where there's really an unsettled debate over regular vs. premium is the additive packages. Branded stations will go on V-POWER Nitro+ premium fuel and Mobil Supreme+ premium fuel and how they have the most detergents, but almost all major stations are TOP TIER certified... in order to get TOP TIER certified (a certification created/supported by BMW, GM, FCA, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen Auto Group, and Navistar that requires stations to use high quality detergent packs that are more than 5x the EPA minimum fuel detergent), a station has to have that higher level of detergent in all grades of gasoline they sell at all stations.

Having worked in the petrochemical industry at one point, most employees of a huge oil company that you've heard of told me that they bought wherever was cheapest (which, despite a employee discount, was often not the branded stations of that oil company)... others more tightly close to oil processes basically told me that there's not a ton of refineries (the actual gasoline you get at Costco, Mobil, Shell in a given geographic area is coming from the same refinery and is the same fuel) and pretty much any well known branded station is going to use a pretty comprehensive detergent pack in all grades of gas and being loyal to Brand X or Y or purchasing premium explicitly believing getting more detergent in each gallon wasn't worth the price. Also that even some brands that aren't TOP TIER certified were using high quality detergent packs that met the criteria for years, but didn't pay for certification (SUNOCO wasn't certified for years, got certified a number of years back, dropped the cert in 2020 for cost saving as fuel demand was incredibly low during COVID, and paid and got the TOP TIER cert again in 2021... they weren't dropping the quality of the detergent packs during 2020.)

If you're worried about deposits, shop at a TOP TIER station.
If you're really worried about deposits, shop at a TOP TIER station and use a bottle of fuel cleaner before oil changes (allegedly it's possible for some of the additives to get out into engine oil, so doing it before your oil change gets the fuel deposits out, and then your oil is drained and you have fresh new oil). Two bottles of Chevron Techron Fuel system cleaner will, at times, go on sale for $11.
But to just buy premium fuel for the sake of preventing deposits... there isn't a notable difference in the detergent packs in regular vs. super marketed premium gas (even at the stations that are hyping that marketing). And at many stations, premium gas simply contains the same detergent pack as regular (Costco is one of these). And you can get fuel system cleaner to run periodically for far, far less money than the price difference of theoretically getting slightly more detergent by paying up to a dollar more for premium gas.

(I recognize that not all areas have the same price gaps between regular and premium, and that can change the value equation. When Costco first put a gas station at the warehouse I go to, regular --> premium was an 25 cent/gal price difference. The slight (~1.5mpg) difference in fuel economy and extra HP was worth it. Now at 65 cents/gal there, and a $1/gal difference in price at most other gas stations, I can't justify [economically] putting premium in my BS unless I'm going to be using a heavier duty use case like towing as described in my owners manual.)

 

[Mark S.]

The only area where there's really an unsettled debate over regular vs. premium is the additive packages.

There is also the question of fuel economy. Some people stubbornly stick to the notion that fuel economy improves with premium fuel. There is some evidence this may be true when the engine is operated under heavy load for long periods. But for normal, everyday driving there is no data to support the claim that premium offers better fuel economy. If this were so then premium fuel would be mandated by our friendly overlords in the EPA.

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