5Star Tuning installed on 2.0L EcoBoost Bronco Sport Badlands

[sajohnson]

In a way, I understand. If you modify the software and blow up the engine I think it's scummy to ask Ford to pay for it. Spend some time on enthusiast forums and you'll hear much discussion about how to remove all traces of a modification before taking your car in for service.

I'm all for folks modifying their cars if they want to. I just don't think Ford should pay when someone's "engineering" efforts end in catastrophe.

Of course I agree.

I'd add that auto mfrs and their dealers (not just Ford) are known to grasp at straws and use any lame excuse to deny warranty claims. In cases where the failure has nothing to do with the tune/modification there is nothing wrong with putting the vehicle back to stock, and it's understandable that owners do that.

If dealers and mfrs had developed a reputation for being ethical and honest, then the tune could be left in place because the owner would know that the dealer would not try to tie it to a bad master cylinder or window regulator. Unfortunately, that is not the case so owners must protect themselves.

But absolutely, it's not right to try and pull one over on the dealer (even though most of them routinely rip off customers). Also, they will likely be able to tell that there was a tune installed.

The 5-speed manual WRX was/is? often abused by doing high rpm clutch dumps. That's bad in any car, but in one where all 4 wheels are continuously driven, it's worse because there is no wheelspin, and something has to give. The clutch will slip but the drivetrain takes a beating as well. Subaru dealers know what to look for when they tear the transmission down and if the car has been abused they will deny warranty coverage, as they should.

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[BroSpo]

New gear position indicator with my 5Star tune?

While my particular BS BL did not have the gear position indicator before my tune, I'm curious if the rest of you do. My neighbor with a 2021 BS BL also does not have that indicator on presently.

For instance, in Eco mode, it is right next to the leaf in orange now (present in all GOAT modes). Handy.

So do the rest of you have that on by default? I'm guessing it can be enabled without FORSCAN, but it wasn't on mine. It never occurred to me to look for it before, but now that it is there, I really like it.

 

[Bucko]

I agree with you 100%. My Ford Performance tune on my Mustang has been on the car for 3 years without hiccup.

I do not think it is possible to remove all traces of modifications when a tune is applied. Yes, you can remove it and return to stock, but there is a counter that tells Ford that the stock tune was changed at some point.

 

[Mark S.]

I do not think it is possible to remove all traces of modifications when a tune is applied. Yes, you can remove it and return to stock, but there is a counter that tells Ford that the stock tune was changed at some point.

They way it was explained to me is that the PCM tracks stop/start cycles since the last reset. So if you bring your car in with, say, 10K miles on the ODO and the PCM shows only 3 stop/start cycles the techs know the PCM was recently reset. That's not definitive evidence that you reprogrammed the PCM software, but it can certainly be considered circumstantial evidence that you've tampered with the PCM in some way.

 

[Bucko]

They way it was explained to me is that the PCM tracks stop/start cycles since the last reset. So if you bring your car in with, say, 10K miles on the ODO and the PCM shows only 3 stop/start cycles the techs know the PCM was recently reset. That's not definitive evidence that you reprogrammed the PCM software, but it can certainly be considered circumstantial evidence that you've tampered with the PCM in some way.

On a Mustang forum I used to frequent, it was identified that the PCM's were changed sometime in the 2010's to peg when OEM parameters were changed. This was to let techs know (changes other than OEM), and then set back to stock for warranty repair. While they could not identify the custom tune parameters that were changed, they could identify the OEM settings where changed.

How that may or may not have affected warranty work, I don't know. I'm also not sure if Ford uses this same action on our 1.5's and 2.0's, but I'd toss out a guess that yes, they want to know when the PCM's parameters have been altered, especially if someone went too far, blew the engine, and tried to cover it up by flashing the stock OEM parameters back in in an attempt to get it covered under warranty.

Tuners are getting sophisticated in that they can allow changes easily, and set back to OEM. Ford (and others) want to know if these have been tampered with, and having a "counter" that tells them this has happened is a way for them to fight back I'd think.

 

[SgtT11B]

I do not think it is possible to remove all traces of modifications when a tune is applied. Yes, you can remove it and return to stock, but there is a counter that tells Ford that the stock tune was changed at some point.

?? How does this pertain to my post? With the Ford Performance Tune it is warrantied by Ford Performance. No where in my post did I discuss trying to hide a tune from the manufacturer.

 

[BroSpo]

?? How does this pertain to my post? With the Ford Performance Tune it is warrantied by Ford Performance. No where in my post did I discuss trying to hide a tune from the manufacturer.

Copy -- I think we agree with that. At least I do...

We just have a variety of competing thoughts anytime we talk about tuning, right? In the same way that this thread was really just about 5Star Tuning, I know it inevitably invites all the stuff that we are discussing presently. Good stuff as far as I'm concerned.

Incidentally, I'm still waiting on a Bronco 2.3l manual transmission to show up...and I will get the Ford Performance Tune no doubt.

 

[BroSpo]

New gear position indicator with my 5Star tune?

While my particular BS BL did not have the gear position indicator before my tune, I'm curious if the rest of you do. My neighbor with a 2021 BS BL also does not have that indicator on presently.

For instance, in Eco mode, it is right next to the leaf in orange now (present in all GOAT modes). Handy.

So do the rest of you have that on by default? I'm guessing it can be enabled without FORSCAN, but it wasn't on mine. It never occurred to me to look for it before, but now that it is there, I really like it.

On a related note, my Wrangler JL went into the shop and came back with a new gear position indicator on the display (they updated the ECU for a variety of unrelated reasons). Maybe this is only interesting to me?

There are many examples of places where OEMs hide useful information and make our vehicles black boxes against our (at least enthusiast) desires. Maybe this is a nod in that direction?

 

[sajohnson]

They way it was explained to me is that the PCM tracks stop/start cycles since the last reset. So if you bring your car in with, say, 10K miles on the ODO and the PCM shows only 3 stop/start cycles the techs know the PCM was recently reset. That's not definitive evidence that you reprogrammed the PCM software, but it can certainly be considered circumstantial evidence that you've tampered with the PCM in some way.

Is a battery disconnect seen as a reset?

 

[Bucko]

?? How does this pertain to my post? With the Ford Performance Tune it is warrantied by Ford Performance. No where in my post did I discuss trying to hide a tune from the manufacturer.

Never said YOU did. Was responding to another reply (Mark S's post).

 

[BroSpo]

Is a battery disconnect seen as a reset?

No, of course not. That's not to say it can't show up as a log entry, but that is very much in the realm of normal maintenance/activity.

On this topic, exactly how a car suffers a failure will determine most dealer reactions. Again, I've seen as many work with the customer that have basic mods (and have a failure of some kind).

For example lots of rubber shreds in the wheel well, tell-tale signs of pre-ignition with the spark plugs and related might already have them against you -- even if your car is completely stock. Neighbor told me a story of a guy with a new Mustang GT that had a "failed clutch at 500 miles". That car came in with nearly bald tires too. It was seemingly unmodified but the claim was denied.

Unfortunately, there is no unified dealership position or response here no matter how much we debate it.

Those that say "wait until the warranty is up" sounds like the stuff of good decision making. That or be prepared to "pay to play" and I've already reconciled that.

Fun now is worth more than fun later for me.

 

[SgtT11B]

Never said YOU did. Was responding to another reply (Mark S's post).

sorry bro, I thought it was me

 

[Mark S.]

For example lots of rubber shreds in the wheel well, tell-tale signs of pre-ignition with the spark plugs and related might already have them against you -- even if your car is completely stock.

I don't know what rubber shreds in the wheel well have to do with it, but if you're engine experiences pre ignition it's almost certainly already in pieces. Perhaps you meant detonation, in which case that wouldn't be a problem. These engines operate under light detonation all the time.

 

[BroSpo]

I don't know what rubber shreds in the wheel well have to do with it, but if you're engine experiences pre ignition it's almost certainly already in pieces. Perhaps you meant detonation, in which case that wouldn't be a problem. These engines operate under light detonation all the time.

Yes, there are many terms. Stochastic pre-ignition, and yes, our engines can experience it. I’ll assume you’re being serious…

Anyhow, there are signs of persistent detonation that can be seen, and my example was for a real-world Mustang GT, told by a mechanic that worked on it. Did you catch how I also talked about a claim for a clutch failure?

I was merely sharing an example of how you present at a dealership can affect your outcome — yes even for an otherwise stock vehicle.

If you’re just enjoying being pedantic, please do that elsewhere.

 

[Mark S.]

Yes, there are many terms. Stochastic pre-ignition, and yes, our engines can experience it. I’ll assume you’re being serious…

Anyhow, there are signs of persistent detonation that can be seen, and my example was for a real-world Mustang GT, told by a mechanic that worked on it. Did you catch how I also talked about a claim for a clutch failure?

I was merely sharing an example of how you present at a dealership can affect your outcome — yes even for an otherwise stock vehicle.

If you’re just enjoying being pedantic, please do that elsewhere.

No, I'm not trying to be pedantic. You put "rubber shreds in the wheel well" and "pre-ignition" in the same sentence, and then mentioned a destroyed clutch in a different sentence. That implies these are two different topics.

Why is everyone so quick to tell others to go away when faced with push back? If your opinion is worth a squat then it should stand up to a bit of questioning. This is how people learn new things.

The EcoBoost engine incorporates a knock (detonation) sensor which is used to set engine parameters. The ONLY way to get maximum power out of an EcoBoost engine is if the knock sensor fires, which by definition means the engine is operating under detonation.

Pre-ignition and detonation are two entirely different phenomena. One is all but required for proper operation of EcoBoost engines while the other can destroy one after a single event. It's not pedantry to suggest that if you use these terms you should be precise.

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