5Star Tuning installed on 2.0L EcoBoost Bronco Sport Badlands

[sajohnson]

Dyno charts!

Adam provided me both a 93 octane and an 87 octane chart.

This is backed up by my seat-of-the-pants impressions. You feel the increased surge of torque and HP after 3K in a very noticeable way.

He also shared the 1.5 EB dyno charts, so I'll share those soon as well.


93 Octane

87 Octane

Is there a key/legend for these charts?

Maybe I overlooked it.

 

[BroSpo]

The key there is "a few more HP."

I'm a tech and have been working on cars since the mid-1970s, so I'm familiar with the basics.

WRT differences in output between tunes based on the use of 87 and 93 octane, I was surprised to find that there was little if any difference in torque and only a modest (5-10 hp) drop in horsepower between Cobb's 93 and 87 octane tunes for my 2002 WRX.

I always ran/run 93 octane, but when the price difference went from 10-15 cents to 60-70 cents per gallon I was tempted to use 87 (and reprogram for it) -- knowing that the difference in performance was minimal. At least once or twice on road trips I had to use 91 octane because that was the highest available and there was zero discernable difference.

As for knock -- it's clearly not good to run a lower octane than the engine was designed for (or it has been tuned for), but knock sensors are there to prevent harm to the engine if there is knock, for any of several reasons.

We know that the stock 2.0L Ecoboost can handle 87-93 octane. A BS owner can run nothing but 93 octane, and then fill up with 87 octane and the ECU adjusts for the lower octane with no drama.

Actually, some western states have 86 and even *85* octane fuel:

"In most of the country, 87 is the lowest octane rating and is considered “regular” gasoline. That’s not the case in Colorado and other surrounding states, including Utah and Wyoming, where 85 octane gas is “regular” and 87 is considered “mid-grade.”:
https://www.cpr.org/2022/01/04/colorado-gasoline-unleaded-octane-environmental-impact/

It's a safe bet that there are people who fill their vehicle with 85 octane and then drive to a lower elevation.

Needless to say, it's better not to have any knock at all, but even stock engines will knock sometimes -- if there are carbon deposits in the combustion chambers; and/or the engine is hot and under a heavy load -- especially at low rpm. So assuming the knock sensor(s) is working, an engine tuned for a few more horsepower should be OK if lower octane fuel is inadvertently used (or must be used) -- especially if the driver does not drive it like they stole it.

I agree and feel we are all mostly on the same page. For an enthusiast forum, the general vibe here is that most are quite conservative in their thoughts about performance tuning. That's fine...

I miss having higher quality gas around! When I lived in CA, I could get 100 octane from my local 76, but those days are long gone...

Like many here, I've been tuning cars and bikes for a while, and got pretty heavily into forced induction cars in the 90s. We have come a really long way since then, and I feel we are in the "Golden Age" of internal combustion engines.

My 1995 Nissan 200SX SE-R made 140 BHP. With careful tuning, it eventually made 400 WHP and the engine remains fine today. It did eat a few transmission gears though!

There is a good bit of headroom here, and as pointed out, the OEM has to be conservative. Still, I don't want to push any particular perspective on anyone. I believe the tune I'm running is safe and comes from a reputable source. So much of this is about trust.

Stay tuned, more of us are running aftermarket maps and will share results. While I don't want to break anything unnecessarily, I am willing to pay to play!

 

[BroSpo]

Is there a key/legend for these charts?

Maybe I overlooked it.

No, but I suspect it will be better annotated in their public release.

*It's easier to read when you already know the values, I agree. The dotted lines are TORQUE.

Torque is the bigger curve...

 

[Meanderthal]

No, but I suspect it will be better annotated in their public release.

It's easier to read when you already know the values, I agree. The dotted lines are the results from the new tuning. Torque is the bigger curve...

Nope, dotted lines are torque and solid lines are HP. The higher lines are after tuning, presumably. Otherwise, you would be paying to get less HP and torque. It is surprising that they can’t get anything more until after 3k RPM. Even then, they aren’t getting a lot.

 

[gatornek]

especially if the driver does not drive it like they stole it.

haha...the most key aspect

 

[BroSpo]

Nope, dotted lines are torque and solid lines are HP. The higher lines are after tuning, presumably. Otherwise, you would be paying to get less HP and torque. It is surprising that they can’t get anything more until after 3k RPM. Even then, they aren’t getting a lot.

*I just re-read my post and will clarify...

Ha, right...I think we are trying to say the same thing. All good...

Anyhow, it isn't that they can't get more power. I'm glad this came up. It's about tuning philosophy and tapering power up top because it isn't all that accessible. Also, trying to run more boost would run outside of the island of efficiency for the turbo anyhow. You can definitely get more power, but it gets back to the debate of safety margin and such...

Those gains are HUGE. It is also very accessible. I wanted to be pragmatic here. You can definitely feel the gains everywhere from throttle tip-in to WOT. It is apparent in every GOAT mode too.

 

[BroSpo]

*I just re-read my post and will clarify...

Ha, right...I think we are trying to say the same thing. All good...

Anyhow, it isn't that they can't get more power. I'm glad this came up. It's about tuning philosophy and tapering power up top because it isn't all that accessible. Also, trying to run more boost would run outside of the island of efficiency for the turbo anyhow. You can definitely get more power, but it gets back to the debate of safety margin and such...

Those gains are HUGE. It is also very accessible. I wanted to be pragmatic here. You can definitely feel the gains everywhere from throttle tip-in to WOT. It is apparent in every GOAT mode too.

*Big gains considering we are only talking about timing and fuel optimizations...with an eye toward safety and sustainability. Again, push boost levels for more...but that's a different goal.

Also note the smoother, flatter curves. The total area under the curve is substantial. That's a difference you can feel.

On my 3.5EB, I replaced the factory turbos with units that can flow about 300 HP each...and tuned to be about a total of 500HP (leaving some room for improvement). I tow and operate my vehicles at high altitude and in general, severe conditions so I'm not looking to be on the ragged edge.

Performance tuning has always been a slippery slope for me. I think this is it for now though, and not looking for another project car or something that isn't reliable / easy to daily drive...

 

[BroSpo]

What do we assume for driveline losses here? 20%? Anyhow, that is power measured at the wheels on their AWD dyno.

Catch that it is SAE J1349 too? I only know that spec exists to normalize comparisons, but don't know if it factors driveline losses.

 

[SgtT11B]

If I do a tune it would be the Livernois tune. They are CARB certified and they do most of the tunes for Ford Performance.

 

[sajohnson]

Here's an interesting tune:
https://fordauthority.com/2021/04/2021-ford-bronco-sport-tune-takes-it-over-the-300-horsepower-mark-video/

Their chart:

Quote:

"Vivid’s Bronco Sport tune results in 222 horsepower at the wheels, 305 at the crank, and 300 pound-feet of torque at the wheels with 350 pound-feet at the crank."

"That represents gains of 36 horsepower at the wheels, 55 horsepower at the crank, 54 pound-feet of torque at the wheels, and 75 pound-feet at the crank. Looking at the dyno chart and the results of the test drive, it’s clear that the tune also improves throttle response, particularly off the line, and the Bronco Sport Badlands pulls harder all the way through the mid and top end of the RPM range."

"What’s particularly nice about Vivid’s tune is that it is done without opening or modifying the ECU board at all. It can be reverted back to stock if desired, and it can be tweaked to take advantage of the installation of additional performance parts, too."

That's a pretty healthy increase -- 22% and 26% respectively.

Of course if your engine grenades, Vivid will claim they've never heard of you...

 

[BroSpo]

If I do a tune it would be the Livernois tune. They are CARB certified and they do most of the tunes for Ford Performance.

That is interesting. CARB certification is nice, but I live in a free state now.

 

[sajohnson]

If I do a tune it would be the Livernois tune. They are CARB certified and they do most of the tunes for Ford Performance.

Livernois looks good:
https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP631164/2021-2022-ford-bronco-sport-1-5l-2-0l-ecoboost-tuner

I see they are a bit more conservative than Vivid -- they claim a max gain of 40 hp on 93 octane.

Actually, their chart indicates higher gains:

 

[sajohnson]

What do we assume for driveline losses here? 20%? Anyhow, that is power measured at the wheels on their AWD dyno.

Catch that it is SAE J1349 too? I only know that spec exists to normalize comparisons, but don't know if it factors driveline losses.

See my post above (#55):

""Vivid’s Bronco Sport tune results in 222 horsepower at the wheels, 305 at the crank, and 300 pound-feet of torque at the wheels with 350 pound-feet at the crank."

So horsepower losses are apparently huge -- 222/305 = over 27% if their numbers are accurate.

 

[Mark S.]

"In most of the country, 87 is the lowest octane rating and is considered “regular” gasoline. That’s not the case in Colorado and other surrounding states, including Utah and Wyoming, where 85 octane gas is “regular” and 87 is considered “mid-grade.”:
https://www.cpr.org/2022/01/04/colorado-gasoline-unleaded-octane-environmental-impact/

It's a safe bet that there are people who fill their vehicle with 85 octane and then drive to a lower elevation.

If they do they risk voiding their car's warranty. In the section on fuel quality, my owner's manual says:

Some fuel stations, particularly those in
high altitude areas, offer fuels posted as
regular unleaded gasoline with an octane
rating below 87. The use of these fuels
could result in engine damage that will not
be covered by the vehicle warranty.

"Regular" is a label, not an octane rating. 87 octane is the minimum you should use for your Bronco Sport.

Regarding power curves, the main reason horsepower drops off at higher RPM on these EcoBoost engines is because the turbocharger is sized to minimize turbo lag. Reduced turbo lag equals improved driveability. That's how Ford made a lowly 2.0L 4 cyl engine feel like a larger 6 cyl engine. To get that better driveability requires a smaller diameter turbine wheel to reduce weight and spool-up time. But the tradeoff is reduced airflow at higher RPM.

You can get more ultimate power at higher RPMs with these engines, but you'll have to swap to a larger turbocharger and be willing to live with the consequent turbo lag.

 

[gatornek]

they do most of the tunes for Ford Performance.

Where did you get this bit of info from? I have never heard that.

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