Transmission oil life question...

[Mark S.]

You’re really dense.

Thank you. I try...

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[sajohnson]

I guess we have to disagree on some things, but I do separate service and sales.
About a year ago, I was told my rear shocks were bad during a routine oil change at my local Ford dealership. I was leaving on a long road trip across country, and had other things to do before I left the next morning. I elected to wait on the shocks, have my nephews take a look. Both are certified auto mechanics, and one works at a Ford dealership.
A few months later, I was at the local dealership for a recall. During that service, they performed Ford's standard safety checks. Amazingly, my shocks were no longer bad!
Bad mechanic? Inexperienced mechanic? Or shady mechanic? Could be any one factor there. My nephew thought the shocks were due to be changed. They weren't bad, yet, but probably due soon. He said that the shocks on the 3rd Gen Escape typically last only 50K miles from his experience. So that's service.

Meanwhile, a neighbor of mine was car shopping. My local dealer wouldn't work with her at all. They wouldn't negotiate on price, wouldn't negotiate financing, made a really poor trade-in offer, and tried to steer her into a different vehicle. She went to a dealer 25 miles away. They negotiated price, gave her a good trade-in offer, got her the financing she needed at the rate she needed, and found the car she wanted out of state and got it in for her. Great service from one dealership and poor indifferent service at another.

I'm working with that same salesman that gave my neighbor a bad time. My circumstances are much different. I ordered a new car. No financing. I have X-Plan pricing, and have statements that they honor X-Plan pricing, Ford's pricing guarantee, and present and future incentive applications at time of delivery. I had placed my order before she went car shopping.

It is important to note that dealer's do not have to honor X-Plan pricing, or other special pricing plans. The buyer has to get a written guarantee that the dealership will honor the X-Plan pricing.
Good service, bad service, good salesmanship and bad salesmanship all at my local dealer.

It seems we are both saying essentially the same thing.

Your experience of being told your rear shocks were bad when they were OK supports my contention that most (not all) dealers are sleazy and unethical. They lie, cheat, and steal -- usually with impunity.

What happened to your neighbor is outrageous! The fact that she was treated poorly by your local dealer and had to go to another dealership to get treated with respect -- coupled with the fact that the local dealer treated you fine is a STRONG indication that your local dealer is staffed with sexists and misogynists who are hard-wired to prey upon women. That dealership is ripe for an expose followed by an AG investigation and monster legal smack-down.

Of course, when it comes to the subject of this thread, those who feel comfortable following Ford's recommendations can simply ignore the nonsense dealer service departments spew.

Admittedly, it's not always clear-cut. For example, what if a BS BL owner carries some bulky cargo on the roof for (say) 500 miles on vacation? Does that mean they should have the ATF replaced at 30K miles? Almost certainly not, but it does get into a grey area.

Here is an objective, conclusive way to know what the condition of your ATF is:

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/engine-types/transmission/

 

[Dude]

Good video from 2018 on the topic

 

[Bucko]

Good video from 2018 on the topic

I gave it a like , but will add that the water found in the differential was most likely due to driving through high water; your average driver may not do this intentionally.

As I've been responding in this thread, the posted maintenance in your owners manual would work for the majority, or for sure those who never plan to keep a vehicle beyond a warranty period.

Me? I hold them a long, long time. Therefore I don't go by many of the "lifetime" periods for fluids, especially automatic transmissions.

 

[RushMan]

It seems we are both saying essentially the same thing.

Your experience of being told your rear shocks were bad when they were OK supports my contention that most (not all) dealers are sleazy and unethical. They lie, cheat, and steal -- usually with impunity.

What happened to your neighbor is outrageous! The fact that she was treated poorly by your local dealer and had to go to another dealership to get treated with respect -- coupled with the fact that the local dealer treated you fine is a STRONG indication that your local dealer is staffed with sexists and misogynists who are hard-wired to prey upon women. That dealership is ripe for an expose followed by an AG investigation and monster legal smack-down.

Of course, when it comes to the subject of this thread, those who feel comfortable following Ford's recommendations can simply ignore the nonsense dealer service departments spew.

Admittedly, it's not always clear-cut. For example, what if a BS BL owner carries some bulky cargo on the roof for (say) 500 miles on vacation? Does that mean they should have the ATF replaced at 30K miles? Almost certainly not, but it does get into a grey area.

Here is an objective, conclusive way to know what the condition of your ATF is:

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/engine-types/transmission/

I will say this, my neighbor is tough, and spoke her mind. She is a teacher and has to be tough in today's classrooms. She had the wherewithal to speak her mind before going elsewhere. She was pretty steamed and talked about it for a few days afterwards. She settled down after finding her dream car at another dealership who treated her very well.

Now this happened to her after I had placed my car order. I made it clear to the salesman that I was planning on going to 2 other neighboring dealerships for my test drive and only wanted him to give me the keys to sit in the car for 15-30 minutes to get a feel for comfort and closely examine the infotainment system. That put him in his place on first meeting, so he knew I would walk at the slightest provocation or detection of a lie.
I believe infotainment systems and lack of dash controls is a major distraction in many, if not most new vehicles. Touch screens do not belong in cars. Ford cars are acceptable, since they have standard radio and HVAC controls - knobs and buttons. It is unacceptable to put those controls in a touch screen as many manufacturers are doing.
Allstate used to have a commercial showing that the infotainment system was a distraction and suggests they may be the cause of crashes. It was one of their comedic "Mayhem" commercials. That TV commercial was pulled shortly after it aired. I had saved a link to it. Now if I try to view it, it shows up as Private and Unavailable. I would bet that auto manufacturers lobbied against Allstate to have the commercial pulled.

Back to my salesman, I pointed out to him that this local dealership's ownership has a poor reputation for service at his other dealerships: Ford and other nameplates. All I want a salesman for is to do the paperwork, no BS. Salesman in general aren't too knowledgeable about many of the cars they sell. You can see that by looking at the YouTube car reviews.
In those videos, I've seen salesman push the button in the cargo area and wonder why the cargo area light didn't toggle on/off. Or they make claims about the Co-Pilot 360 /360+ just just isn't true, such as claiming it has 360 camera views in the BS.
One guy even referred to the car he was demonstrating as a Badlands, when it was clearly an Outer Banks. The wheels and side sticker were clear. In other videos including test drives, the sales person wasn't using their turn signal, wasn't making full stops at stop signs and violating other traffic rules. I can't respect a dealership who has a guy like that in their video demos. In other videos, several sales people couldn't figure out the CMS and pulled the legs down without extended the tray out the back of the vehicle and then wondered why the shelf wasn't flat.

I have little use for sales people, in person or in car reviews. And I'm not afraid to call them on it or ask them to explain further when they make questionable claims. That doesn't mean I'm rude, just careful of what they say and tell them when they are wrong or misinformed.

 

[sajohnson]

Good video from 2018 on the topic

The guy does seem knowledgeable.

That ATF was NASTY! I've never seen trans fluid that looked like that. It would be helpful to know a few things:

* Is that the original factory fill -- or had it been replaced?
* If so, when? How many miles on that fluid?
* How is that truck used? Is it primarily a tow vehicle for a large boat or 5th wheel trailer?
* Water in the front diff suggests it's not a light-duty, suburban, pavement only, truck.
* What is Ford's recommend ATF replacement interval for that truck?

I noticed that he recommends changing the gear oil in the transfer case and differentials every 30K miles. That is an extremely short interval. Just for example, MB recommends 210,000 miles for the rear diff oil in the Sprinter 3500. I wonder what the Ford recommendation is?

When I hear firm, etched in stone, proclamations like, "Every 30,000 miles" for some service, I have to wonder where the number of miles came from. My hunch is that the origin is a bodily orifice. Just some number significantly less than the mfr recommendation.

Even factory recommendations based on hard data are an educated guess. There are many variables the factory cannot account for. For just one example, the engine air filter. Conditions vary from 'dust storm at Burning Man' to areas with very clear air. There's no one number that is appropriate for everyone.

At least the factory has the ability to do extensive testing to determine good ballpark figures that apply to the majority of drivers. Your typical internet dude does not. It's easy to just take 10% or 20% of the factory intervals and declare that it is the true requirement. That won't hurt anything, but it is (usually) a waste of time, money, and resources.

Which is why, above, I said:

Here is an objective, conclusive way to know what the condition of your ATF is:

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/engine-types/transmission/

Blackstone will give you solid, objective data so you can make an informed decision.

Otherwise, you're flying blind. Let's say a BS BL owner decides that 50,000 miles "feels" right for the ATF changes -- or some self-proclaimed guru sez 50K. On one hand, they may be spending 3x more than necessary on transmission maint (hundreds of $$), OTOH, in some cases, 50,000 miles may be too long, leading to premature failure. Blackstone's analysis will eliminate the guesswork.

Otherwise, if 30,000 miles is good, then 20,000 is better, and 10,000 is better still...

 

[Mark S.]

The guy does seem knowledgeable.

That ATF was NASTY! I've never seen trans fluid that looked like that. It would be helpful to know a few things:

* Is that the original factory fill -- or had it been replaced?
* If so, when? How many miles on that fluid?
* How is that truck used? Is it primarily a tow vehicle for a large boat or 5th wheel trailer?
* Water in the front diff suggests it's not a light-duty, suburban, pavement only, truck.
* What is Ford's recommend ATF replacement interval for that truck?

I noticed that he recommends changing the gear oil in the transfer case and differentials every 30K miles. That is an extremely short interval. Just for example, MB recommends 210,000 miles for the rear diff oil in the Sprinter 3500. I wonder what the Ford recommendation is?

When I hear firm, etched in stone, proclamations like, "Every 30,000 miles" for some service, I have to wonder where the number of miles came from. My hunch is that the origin is a bodily orifice. Just some number significantly less than the mfr recommendation.

Even factory recommendations based on hard data are an educated guess. There are many variables the factory cannot account for. For just one example, the engine air filter. Conditions vary from 'dust storm at Burning Man' to areas with very clear air. There's no one number that is appropriate for everyone.

At least the factory has the ability to do extensive testing to determine good ballpark figures that apply to the majority of drivers. Your typical internet dude does not. It's easy to just take 10% or 20% of the factory intervals and declare that it is the true requirement. That won't hurt anything, but it is (usually) a waste of time, money, and resources.

Which is why, above, I said:

Here is an objective, conclusive way to know what the condition of your ATF is:

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/engine-types/transmission/

Blackstone will give you solid, objective data so you can make an informed decision.

Otherwise, you're flying blind. Let's say a BS BL owner decides that 50,000 miles "feels" right for the ATF changes -- or some self-proclaimed guru sez 50K. On one hand, they may be spending 3x more than necessary on transmission maint (hundreds of $$), OTOH, in some cases, 50,000 miles may be too long, leading to premature failure. Blackstone's analysis will eliminate the guesswork.

Otherwise, if 30,000 miles is good, then 20,000 is better, and 10,000 is better still...

Saved me a lot of typing...

 

[Bucko]

Saved me a lot of typing...

Until you get to the next post....?

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