Synthetic vs. Conventional Oil

[Mrmike]

Many manufacturers do now-a-days.

Full synthetic is more fuel efficient than Semi is, which in the case of Ford's Motorcraft, is said to have only 20% synthetic in it.

I've always gotten better mileage w/Full Synthetic than w/Mineral or Semi-Synthetic. It's one of the reasons I use it.
It's also more expensive than Semi, which could be a reason why they don't use it.
Then too, many manufactures put either mineral or Semi-synthetic in their new engines for break-in, recommending Full Synthetic after.

Another reason I use it is for the Turbo, which not only runs extremely hot, but spins at several thousands of RPM's, when it comes to the bearings. Full synthetic can handle higher temperatures w/o what is called, coking (cooked oil around the bearings).

Where I live, summer temperatures run well over 100 F.

I use Mobil 1. If you check their website, they have periodic rebate programs. If you buy your oil at Walmart and have a rebate to apply, synthetic is almost cheaper than conventional. That plus a longer change interval make it a smart choice.

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[sajohnson]

I use Mobil 1. If you check their website, they have periodic rebate programs. If you buy your oil at Walmart and have a rebate to apply, synthetic is almost cheaper than conventional. That plus a longer change interval make it a smart choice.

Exactly.

I see no reason to use anything other that 100% synthetic oil in essentially any ICE. We've used it in all of our vehicles and power equipment for decades.

Maybe 40 years ago, synthetic oil was a lot more expensive than dino oil and it could be hard to justify using it. It was sort of a novelty. Now there's no reason not to use 100% synthetic.

I'm going to be doing an oil change on the BL soon, so I've been looking at what's available in 5W30; API-SP; and (ideally but not necessary) Ford's #xxx 961-A1.

So far, I've found:

* Mobil (not Mobil 1) Full Synthetic -- Sold by Costco ($33 for 6 quart case). Has 961-A1 approval:
https://www.global.mobil.com/en/lubricants/products/products/mobil-full-synthetic-5w-30

* Kirkland Full Synthetic (Costco, $50 for 12 quart case). Blended by Warren (Ford 961-A1?):
https://pqia.org/kirkland-full-synthetic-sae-5w-30-motor-oil/

* Amazon has 5 quart jugs of Mobil 1 for ~$30. (It has 961-A1 approval):
https://www.amazon.com/Mobil-120764-Synthetic-Motor-5W-30/dp/B00I4E91GI/ref=sr_1_2

I just started looking into which full synthetic oils are possible options -- those are just 3 I found so far.

Prices run from <$4.20/quart to $6/quart. Typical dino oil is about $22-$23 for a 5 quart jug -- or a bit more than the Kirkland synthetic -- and not much less than Mobil 1.

I'm honestly surprised conventional oil is still being sold. And the blends are usually overpriced considering they are typically about 20% synthetic.

EDIT to add:

My post #17 here about oil is a bit more complete:
https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/ford-bronco-sport-badlands-how-to-change-the-oil-video.5233/page-2

 

[Mrmike]

Exactly.

I see no reason to use anything other that 100% synthetic oil in essentially any ICE. We've used it in all of our vehicles and power equipment for decades.

Maybe 40 years ago, synthetic oil was a lot more expensive than dino oil and it could be hard to justify using it. It was sort of a novelty. Now there's no reason not to use 100% synthetic.

I'm going to be doing an oil change on the BL soon, so I've been looking at what's available in 5W30; API-SP; and (ideally but not necessary) Ford's #xxx 961-A1.

So far, I've found:

* Mobil (not Mobil 1) Full Synthetic -- Sold by Costco ($33 for 6 quart case). Has 961-A1 approval:
https://www.global.mobil.com/en/lubricants/products/products/mobil-full-synthetic-5w-30

* Kirkland Full Synthetic (Costco, $50 for 12 quart case). Blended by Warren (Ford 961-A1?):
https://pqia.org/kirkland-full-synthetic-sae-5w-30-motor-oil/

* Amazon has 5 quart jugs of Mobil 1 for ~$30. (It has 961-A1 approval):
https://www.amazon.com/Mobil-120764-Synthetic-Motor-5W-30/dp/B00I4E91GI/ref=sr_1_2

I just started looking into which full synthetic oils are possible options -- those are just 3 I found so far.

Prices run from <$4.20/quart to $6/quart. Typical dino oil is about $22-$23 for a 5 quart jug -- or a bit more than the Kirkland synthetic -- and not much less than Mobil 1.

I'm honestly surprised conventional oil is still being sold. And the blends are usually overpriced considering they are typically about 20% synthetic.

What is the difference between Mobil and Mobil 1 ?

 

[Mark S.]

What is the difference between Mobil and Mobil 1 ?

Here ya go:

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/motor-oils/synthetic-motor-oils

 

[Mark S.]

I just started looking into which full synthetic oils are possible options -- those are just 3 I found so far.

Wally world's Super Tech brand is a pretty good deal. I've been using it exclusively in all my cars for nearly a decade. You can compare it to the Kirkland (they both come from the same wholesaler). A 5qt jug is around $21, or you can get a 12qt bag for $48. According to the manufacturer, this oil is good for 10K miles. For about 20% more you can get their "advanced" oil, which they claim is good for 20K.

I change my oil as recommended, which is always less than 10K, so I see no reason to use the higher-priced option.

 

[GoHack]

Beware of what is truly synthetic oil vs. what isn't, here in the US.

Ever since the lawsuit of Castrol vs. Mobil, the word synthetic oil can mean anything here in the US.
As a result of the lawsuit, Castrol was able to sell their Syntec Brand oil as full synthetic, when in fact it was nothing more than a cracked mineral oil.

Castrol did sell a 0W-30 version which was bottled in Germany, which by German Law, had to be "REAL" synthetic oil, which was tested, and was in fact pure synthetic, and a very good one at that, but they ceased selling it.

There have since been stories of Mobil 1 having a small amount of mineral based oil added since then.

The best place to research oil is "Bob the Oil Guy Website". https://bobistheoilguy.com/

The Ford Bronco Sport engines are small transverse 3/4-cylinder engines w/turbo chargers.
Not only do these engines get hot, but the turbo's rev at very high RPM's, and especially get very hot due to the exhaust gases which drive them. A good full synthetic oil is the best option w/turbos and their bearings. Most vehicles now-a-days w/turbos require Full Synthetic oil. Why Ford doesn't w/the Bronco Sport, I have no idea.

Finally, no matter what oil you decide to use, please stay away from cheap oil filters like Fram.
At the very least, stay w/Ford OEM.

 

[Mark S.]

Beware of what is truly synthetic oil vs. what isn't, here in the US.

This is true to a certain extent. To me, whether it's "synthetic" or not isn't as important as meeting the spec. Any oil that meet's the API SP spec exhibits all the qualities most people are looking for when they switch to synthetic from dino. The SP spec requires low volatility (for LSPI protection), low or no heat coking (to protect the turbo), and lubricity stability to account for longer service life.

I could be wrong, but don't believe you will find any dino-based oils that meet the API SP spec.

 

[sajohnson]

Here ya go:

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/motor-oils/synthetic-motor-oils

Thanks Mark, it's good to have them all on one page.

My opinion -- OK, cynical hunch -- is that a lot (but not all) of what's on that page is marketing fluff.

While there may be some minor differences in additives between (say): Mobil 1; Mobil 1 High Mileage; Mobil 1 Extended Performance; Mobil 1 Extended Performance High Mileage; and Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy -- it's hard to believe there would be a noticeable difference in most applications. My sense is that Mobil (and other oil companies) are just competing for shelf space in the stores, and trying to have "something for everyone".

<Ad voice-over> "Do you have an old blue 4-door sedan with over 75,000 miles and a V6 engine? You're in luck! "Oil Slick" has just the oil for you!"

For example, as you pointed out in another thread (IIRC) auto mfrs are desperate to meet CAFE standards. If Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy actually increases mileage by even (say) 2%, most mfrs would use it as factory fill.

Anyway, I agree with what you posted above (#82):

"Any oil that meet's the API SP spec exhibits all the qualities most people are looking for when they switch to synthetic from dino. The SP spec requires low volatility (for LSPI protection), low or no heat coking (to protect the turbo), and lubricity stability to account for longer service life."

Any 100% synthetic oil rated API-SP meets (and probably exceeds) the performance of Ford's "blend" (probably ~20% synthetic) and is more than adequate. Including Mobil Full Synthetic, which also has FORD WSS-M2C961-A1 approval (not necessary for warranty coverage, but one less 'straw' for them to grasp at).

 

[sajohnson]

Wally world's Super Tech brand is a pretty good deal. I've been using it exclusively in all my cars for nearly a decade. You can compare it to the Kirkland (they both come from the same wholesaler). A 5qt jug is around $21, or you can get a 12qt bag for $48. According to the manufacturer, this oil is good for 10K miles. For about 20% more you can get their "advanced" oil, which they claim is good for 20K.

I change my oil as recommended, which is always less than 10K, so I see no reason to use the higher-priced option.

I don't want to get off-topic, but briefly -- we used to shop at Walmart decades ago. I bought plenty of their Super Tech brand oil. In fact, we had a membership at Sam's Club.

After I became more aware of their business practices, we stopped giving them our business. I'm not a fanatic about it. It's just our personal decision. I don't go around trying to convince others to follow our lead, or pass judgement on anyone. I know it makes zero difference to the Waltons whether my wife and I shop at their stores, and some other corporations are almost as bad.

I mentioned that just to explain why I no longer use Super Tech oil.

Good news for you and others that do though. FWIW, it apparently *does* meet Ford's 961-A1 spec. See post 42 *44*.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/thoughts-on-super-tech.347742/page-3

There is a link to a PDF from Warren. It isn't 100% clear to me which of their oils the PDF applies to but I think it is the Super Tech 5W30 API-SP.

EDIT to add: Post #44 (not 42).

 

[sajohnson]

Beware of what is truly synthetic oil vs. what isn't, here in the US.

Ever since the lawsuit of Castrol vs. Mobil, the word synthetic oil can mean anything here in the US.
As a result of the lawsuit, Castrol was able to sell their Syntec Brand oil as full synthetic, when in fact it was nothing more than a cracked mineral oil.

Castrol did sell a 0W-30 version which was bottled in Germany, which by German Law, had to be "REAL" synthetic oil, which was tested, and was in fact pure synthetic, and a very good one at that, but they ceased selling it.

There have since been stories of Mobil 1 having a small amount of mineral based oil added since then.

The best place to research oil is "Bob the Oil Guy Website". https://bobistheoilguy.com/

The Ford Bronco Sport engines are small transverse 3/4-cylinder engines w/turbo chargers.
Not only do these engines get hot, but the turbo's rev at very high RPM's, and especially get very hot due to the exhaust gases which drive them. A good full synthetic oil is the best option w/turbos and their bearings. Most vehicles now-a-days w/turbos require Full Synthetic oil. Why Ford doesn't w/the Bronco Sport, I have no idea.

Finally, no matter what oil you decide to use, please stay away from cheap oil filters like Fram.
At the very least, stay w/Ford OEM.

B-b-b-but... what about my pyramid o' Fram filters?

I actually used to use Fram (and Purolator and others) years ago. In fact, Fram was considered to be a top brand. A long time ago, CR tested a bunch of name brand filters and Fram came out on top. So I used to buy them frequently.

I'm using the Motorcraft filters for the BL for now -- IIRC it's #910-S(?)

I do have to wonder about all of the claims and counter-claims about filters (and oil for that matter). I subscribed to the 3 big car magazines for decades, and still subscribe to CR online. I cannot recall even once reading about an engine that blew up because of a bad oil filter -- or any oil-related problem that was not the fault of the owner.

That said, I agree that it doesn't make sense to try and save $1.50 on an oil filter. As you said, at least stick with OEM.

Since I follow(ed) the auto industry, I'm familiar with the Castrol vs. Mobil lawsuit. It bothers me that the definition of "full synthetic" is so lax that it is just a marketing term:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

There is clearly a difference between Groups 3 and 4:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_oil

I'm surprised that mfrs of Group 4 oil do not heavily advertise that fact.

That said, my thinking is similar to Mark's -- any full synthetic 5W30 API-SP oil clearly meets, and most likely exceeds, Ford's requirements (since they specify a blended oil).

BITOG is a great forum, I've spent some time over there. As with most forums though, members can get into the weeds. That may make sense for unusually severe duty applications -- where the difference between a store brand "full synthetic" and a boutique Grade IV true synthetic oil might actually make a difference, but oils like Royal Purple and Amsoil are the definition of over-kill for ordinary vehicles.

Other than that, BITOG is a good source.

 

[sajohnson]

Here's a good thread on BITOG:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/ford-2-7l-ecoboost-api-sp-vs-ford-wss-m2c961-a1-pennzoil.341957/

It basically confirms what Mark has posted here.

One thing I hadn't seen before is that in addition to API-SP it is good to look for "GM's Dexos1 Gen 2".

EDIT to add:

"GM's Dexos1 Gen 3" for 5W30 oil.

 

[GoHack]

I do have to wonder about all of the claims and counter-claims about filters (and oil for that matter). I subscribed to the 3 big car magazines for decades, and still subscribe to CR online. I cannot recall even once reading about an engine that blew up because of a bad oil filter -- or any oil-related problem that was not the fault of the owner.

Over the years, I've met and talked w/plenty a mechanic, both motorcycle and auto, when it comes to their experiences w/Fram oil filters, and their disintegrating in engines, which has indeed happened. Of course too, the engines in the past were nothing compared to what we have now-a-days. They had a lot looser tolerances compared to what we have today.

Remember the Corvette engines w/the Lotus designed ZR-1's all-aluminum 5.7-liter V8, dubbed LT5 that had a big problem seizing up, until Chevy switch over to Mobil 1 Synthetic oil. The tolerance on the engine were said to be just too tight to use mineral based oil.

Now-a-days, the issue can be even worse due to not only the tighter tolerances of engines now-a-days, but the turbo chargers, and having the oil supply for it blocked off by some filtering material that broke off of the filter.

If you physically look at the cut-a-way of a standard orange Fram oil filter, all it has is filtering material w/two glued on cardboard ends on it.

If people don't care, then fine, that's certainly their choice.
On the other hand, if people are willing to spend money on good oil, it only makes sense to do the same w/the oil filter as well does it not, at least when it comes to using at least an OEM one anyway.

 

[davidb1841]

I always bring my own synthetic to my service which is always at my Ford dealer who I trust. AND I always use Ford Filters in my $80K Ford F250 Tremor Power Stroke Diesel...and my $37K Ford Bronco Sport.

 

[sajohnson]

Over the years, I've met and talked w/plenty a mechanic, both motorcycle and auto, when it comes to their experiences w/Fram oil filters, and their disintegrating in engines, which has indeed happened. Of course too, the engines in the past were nothing compared to what we have now-a-days. They had a lot looser tolerances compared to what we have today.

Remember the Corvette engines w/the Lotus designed ZR-1's all-aluminum 5.7-liter V8, dubbed LT5 that had a big problem seizing up, until Chevy switch over to Mobil 1 Synthetic oil. The tolerance on the engine were said to be just too tight to use mineral based oil.

Now-a-days, the issue can be even worse due to not only the tighter tolerances of engines now-a-days, but the turbo chargers, and having the oil supply for it blocked off by some filtering material that broke off of the filter.

If you physically look at the cut-a-way of a standard orange Fram oil filter, all it has is filtering material w/two glued on cardboard ends on it.

If people don't care, then fine, that's certainly their choice.
On the other hand, if people are willing to spend money on good oil, it only makes sense to do the same w/the oil filter as well does it not, at least when it comes to using at least an OEM one anyway.

Just to clarify...

I said:

"I'm using the Motorcraft filters for the BL..."

"I agree that it doesn't make sense to try and save $1.50 on an oil filter. As you said, at least stick with OEM."

~~~

I'll probably keep using the OEM (910-S) filters, because there is no question about them preserving warranty coverage and they aren't expensive.

I don't have the energy for deep dive into oil filter construction and trying to determine which filters are 'best'. That discussion has been going on for decades and it seems there will never be any consensus.

There are endless 2nd and 3rd-hand anecdotal stories; lots of marketing hype; plenty of fanboys; and tales that get amplified via the echo chamber effect. Videos cannot always be trusted to be legit.

That said, if there were certified instances of Motorcraft filters failing, then I'd absolutely be looking for something else.

 

[GoHack]

I always bring my own synthetic to my service which is always at my Ford dealer who I trust. AND I always use Ford Filters in my $80K Ford F250 Tremor Power Stroke Diesel...and my $37K Ford Bronco Sport.

What synthetic oil do you use if I might ask?

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