Not For Me, I'll Pass

[CrashBend]

Traveling through eastern Oregon one winter and my car stalled out at Shaniko. I was able to pull into the little gas station just as it died. It was -25 and this California boy had never been that cold before. The people asked me if I had anti-freeze in the gas. I thought they were messing with me, I never heard of putting anti-freeze in your gas. Well they explained to me that my call stalled because the gas jellied up. I was fortunate that a local tow truck owner could tow me to Bend where it was warm enough for my car to start. Yes, I did buy a couple cans of gasoline anti-freeze in that store.

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[Barry S.]

Both you and me.

One can loose body parts at temps that low!

Definitely don't need any more specifics.?

 

[Bucko]

Traveling through eastern Oregon one winter and my car stalled out at Shaniko. I was able to pull into the little gas station just as it died. It was -25 and this California boy had never been that cold before. The people asked me if I had anti-freeze in the gas. I thought they were messing with me, I never heard of putting anti-freeze in your gas. Well they explained to me that my call stalled because the gas jellied up. I was fortunate that a local tow truck owner could tow me to Bend where it was warm enough for my car to start. Yes, I did buy a couple cans of gasoline anti-freeze in that store.

I never heard of such a thing either!

While working in northern Canada years ago, the temps never got above -22. I tried one morning to start the rental car in the hotel parking lot, and no go. I called Hertz to inform them that the rental car would not start. They asked me if I "plugged the car in"?

I responded with that I had no idea what they were talking about. They informed me that at night, I need to "plug the car in with a provided cord that was in the trunk". I walked back outside, and found the plug, along with an outlet that was in front of every parking spot at the hotel, waited about 30 minutes, then started the car.

Two days later while talking to the hotel clerk, I complained on how cold it was outside, and the whole silly thing about having to plug a car to keep the engine block warm. He responded with "Why don't you park around the back, in the heated garage?".

I almost jumped the counter to smack him, as they never told me this when I checked in.

 

[CrashBend]

I never heard of such a thing either!

While working in northern Canada years ago, the temps never got above -22. I tried one morning to start the rental car in the hotel parking lot, and no go. I called Hertz to inform them that the rental car would not start. They asked me if I "plugged the car in"?

I responded with that I had no idea what they were talking about. They informed me that at night, I need to "plug the car in with a provided cord that was in the trunk". I walked back outside, and found the plug, along with an outlet that was in front of every parking spot at the hotel, waited about 30 minutes, then started the car.

Two days later while talking to the hotel clerk, I complained on how cold it was outside, and the whole silly thing about having to plug a car to keep the engine block warm. He responded with "Why don't you park around the back, in the heated garage?".

I almost jumped the counter to smack him, as they never told me this when I checked in.

Freaking Hilarious....

 

[RushMan]

Traveling through eastern Oregon one winter and my car stalled out at Shaniko. I was able to pull into the little gas station just as it died. It was -25 and this California boy had never been that cold before. The people asked me if I had anti-freeze in the gas. I thought they were messing with me, I never heard of putting anti-freeze in your gas. Well they explained to me that my call stalled because the gas jellied up. I was fortunate that a local tow truck owner could tow me to Bend where it was warm enough for my car to start. Yes, I did buy a couple cans of gasoline anti-freeze in that store.

HEET is the brand name. My Dad always had a couple cans of the stuff in the garage in preparation for Chicago's winters.
It's ethanol and since we already have ethanol in the fuel, there's no need to buy HEET any more, unless you are lucky enough to live in an area which has ethanol free gasoline.

 

[CrashBend]

HEET is the brand name. My Dad always had a couple cans of the stuff in the garage in preparation for Chicago's winters.
It's ethanol and since we already have ethanol in the fuel, there's no need to buy HEET any more, unless you are lucky enough to live in an area which has ethanol free gasoline.

Thanks RushMan. I thought I remembered it was some kind of alcohol. My experience was back in the mid 80's before the E-85 came out.

 

[Mark S.]

Well they explained to me that my call stalled because the gas jellied up.

Gasoline doesn't typically gel, they were probably thinking of diesel fuel. Untreated gasoline will, however, absorb moisture (water). When gas reaches a certain temperature it can no longer hold water in suspension, so the water molecules begin collecting together. If a slug of water gets in to your fuel line it can freeze, preventing fuel feed to the engine. As Russ noted, Heet is essentially alcohol, but it's isopropyl alcohol, not Ethanol. Alcohol allows fuel to hold water in suspension to much lower temperatures, thereby preventing it coming out of solution and freezing/blocking fuel feed lines.

 

[RushMan]

Thanks RushMan. I thought I remembered it was some kind of alcohol. My experience was back in the mid 80's before the E-85 came out.

The composition varied over the years. This link has some history of the compositional variation.
https://www.arnabee.com/what-is-heet-made-of/#:~:text=The current composition is 35% toluene 35% ethylbenzene,is miscible with water and most organic solvents.

 

[coopny]

I never heard of such a thing either!

While working in northern Canada years ago, the temps never got above -22. I tried one morning to start the rental car in the hotel parking lot, and no go. I called Hertz to inform them that the rental car would not start. They asked me if I "plugged the car in"?

I responded with that I had no idea what they were talking about. They informed me that at night, I need to "plug the car in with a provided cord that was in the trunk". I walked back outside, and found the plug, along with an outlet that was in front of every parking spot at the hotel, waited about 30 minutes, then started the car.

Two days later while talking to the hotel clerk, I complained on how cold it was outside, and the whole silly thing about having to plug a car to keep the engine block warm. He responded with "Why don't you park around the back, in the heated garage?".

I almost jumped the counter to smack him, as they never told me this when I checked in.

This reminds me of the first time I went to Milwaukee. I flew on Martin Luther King Jr. Day, 2013. I was on a small Bombardier CRJ200 50 seater jet (as some call it on frequent flyer boards - "the devil's chariot"). That was my first ever emergency landing as the flaps of the plane froze (nothing too dramatic - normally the plane would have had the flaps extended further to slow it down before touching down. It was just a faster and longer [distance and time] to stop, but the captain did declare an emergency to air traffic and the cabin). Before the excitement some parents were talking about how they hoped the windchill was below -30F so they'd cancel school for their children the next day.

(I later learned in Montreal that -38F and -38C are equal...)

We got a Chevy cruze as a rental, had a touchscreen radio, but basic all the rest, cloth manual seats, whatever. We freeze our ass off for three days. (Anybody who has been in subzero F climates knows remote start or idling isn't going to do anything - you just have to drive).

The last day is there four days into the trip... it's 31 degrees fahrenheit. Absolutely balmy! We get in the car, about to return to the airport... and we take a look closer at the icons in the middle of the climate control knobs:

That's right. It had fully manual HVAC, and the genius designers at GM decided to put the heated seats as buttons in the middle of the knob as push-in buttons. I have never seen this approach for a heated seat button before or since.

All we could do was laugh about it to not be mad (or feel stupid) that we hadn't realized there were heated seats in the car sooner...

 

[Mark S.]

That was my first ever emergency landing as the flaps of the plane froze (nothing too dramatic - normally the plane would have had the flaps extended further to slow it down before touching down. It was just a faster and longer [distance and time] to stop, but the captain did declare an emergency to air traffic and the cabin).

The emergency may not have been for stuck flaps. It may have been for the ice that froze them...

 

[o0260o]

My father worked in a different part of Siberia. They still used Reindeer sometimes. I think it was until the 1970s (edit: 1998!) that a Lada could be had with a crank start. It's a different world out there.

 

[coopny]

The emergency may not have been for stuck flaps. It may have been for the ice that froze them...

The emergency descent was due to not being able to extend the flaps to slow down the plane, according to the captains announcement to the cabin. He emphasized that it was not an emergency that was likely to result in any issues, but that it would mean the airport authorities would be prepared if the plane overran the runway and that it would put the landing as priority to reduce the risk of not being able to stop the plane sooner for any crossing traffic (if a runway incursion were to occur during landing).

 

[Mark S.]

The emergency descent was due to not being able to extend the flaps to slow down the plane, according to the captains announcement to the cabin. He emphasized that it was not an emergency that was likely to result in any issues, but that it would mean the airport authorities would be prepared if the plane overran the runway and that it would put the landing as priority to reduce the risk of not being able to stop the plane sooner for any crossing traffic (if a runway incursion were to occur during landing).

An "emergency descent" is a specific maneuver. It's purpose is to descend as rapidly as possible, and is generally used for specific types of exigent situations such as a loss of pressurization or a cabin fire. The pilot may have declared an emergency prior to the descent, which is not the same thing as an emergency descent.

From what you describe, it sounds as if the flaps were not functioning, prompting the crew to declare an emergency before landing. An inability to extend the flaps would not require an emergency descent, but it would certainly be a good idea to have ground crews ready should the plane overrun the runway on landing.

So, back to my original comment: Why was the crew unable to extend the flaps? I suspect the aircraft encountered icing conditions that the aircraft's anti-icing system was unable to keep up with. Ice on the wings and/or horizontal stabilizer of an aircraft is a dangerous situation because ice is heavy (higher weight = higher stall speed), and changes the wing's/stabilizer's aerodynamic shape, thereby introducing uncertainty in handling characteristics. If an aircraft is carrying a load of ice it's a bad idea to extend the flaps, because this not only changes the shape of the wing, introducing further handling uncertainty, but it also changes air flow over the horizontal stabilizer, which can result in a tailplane stall.

 

[Tigger]

I’m imagining every Canadian laughing at us Americans thinking they know what cold is.

But on another note, after watching that video, I was wondering if it’d be better if they had an electric vehicle instead of gas? (Fewer liquids help? Easier to keep batteries warm or warm them up?)

 

[wireman]

I’m imagining every Canadian laughing at us Americans thinking they know what cold is.

But on another note, after watching that video, I was wondering if it’d be better if they had an electric vehicle instead of gas? (Fewer liquids help? Easier to keep batteries warm or warm them up?)

You would get about 15 miles of range in that climate. Cold drastically reduces range of the batteries.

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