Do lifts cause long-term problems with the Badlands?

[Mark S.]

All driveshaft angles are within degrees of acceptance for CV joint usage and are not out or range for a two” lift per cv axle manufacturer’s specs.

Can you please share the data this claim is based on?

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[Ksnau]

I appreciate the advice, but understand that not all of us have the money or space for a fully outfitted garage. For example, I live in a townhouse with no garage at all, and I have no space to store all the tools needed to work on a vehicle even if it's sitting in the driveway. I also don't have time, energy, or inclination to train myself to become a full-on mechanic from scratch. None of this means I shouldn't get my vehicle modified by a reputable shop.

I don't have one either. I have a toolbox and a $200 used air compressor, which actually isn't even working right now and hasn't been for like a year, so I could run probably $50 worth of air tools I got from harbor freight. I don't have anything special and I still get it done. Basically everything that I've done in my bronco I've been able to do with the tools that I keep in my bronco sport except for two plastic ramps.

Also, I'm not a full-on mechanic, it's just a hobby that I have and I do in my spare time. I'm an accountant that should tell you how limited my free time is and I still get this stuff done and have been able to learn this stuff and do it.

And I'm not saying that. If you don't know how to do stuff you shouldn't do it but I am suggesting it or at least have the understandings of something goes wrong. You can fix it. Also you save a hell of a lot of money. I mean if I was saying that I wouldn't have done the air suspension I did on my bronco. I've never had air suspension before. Never helped install one or anything but I did my homework and just did it. And that's pretty much how I've done all my car mods. No one 's taught me how to do anything except when I was making my own supercharger kids. I did have a friend who used to be a machinist that helped me with a few things. But that was usually just to make something a little better based on something I'd already done myself.

 

[TheCornerKing]

Can you please share the data this claim is based on?

If you want it, go find it like I did. Google is your friend.

You can search things like “automotive CV joint operating range” and things like that. I worked in the steel industry and in 3D Titanium printing industries for the last 20+ years. We are talking about an inch or two. And members of this forum scrape for things to argue over. Lift it, don’t lift it, buy custom axles and CV Joints, or don’t do it. If you understand physics, material compositions, and have access to information like me then fine. I have nothing to prove. I did it more than a few times with 0 issues over 1,000s of miles in my garage with my hands, my tools and my sweat.

If you’re unsure, don’t do it. The 100’s of people on all the BS forums that done the lift might be wrong or might have an issue. Lift it, risk goes up but CVs break doing normal operating conditions.

I will throw you a bone, start here:

https://unsealed4x4.com.au/cv-joints-explained-everything-you-need-to-know/

 

[jk6661]

I don't have one either. I have a toolbox and a $200 used air compressor, which actually isn't even working right now and hasn't been for like a year, so I could run probably $50 worth of air tools I got from harbor freight. I don't have anything special and I still get it done. Basically everything that I've done in my bronco I've been able to do with the tools that I keep in my bronco sport except for two plastic ramps.

Also, I'm not a full-on mechanic, it's just a hobby that I have and I do in my spare time. I'm an accountant that should tell you how limited my free time is and I still get this stuff done and have been able to learn this stuff and do it.

And I'm not saying that. If you don't know how to do stuff you shouldn't do it but I am suggesting it or at least have the understandings of something goes wrong. You can fix it. Also you save a hell of a lot of money. I mean if I was saying that I wouldn't have done the air suspension I did on my bronco. I've never had air suspension before. Never helped install one or anything but I did my homework and just did it. And that's pretty much how I've done all my car mods. No one 's taught me how to do anything except when I was making my own supercharger kids. I did have a friend who used to be a machinist that helped me with a few things. But that was usually just to make something a little better based on something I'd already done myself.

That's great for you. We obviously have different priorities. Best of luck with yours.

 

[Mark S.]

I have nothing to prove. I did it more than a few times with 0 issues over 1,000s of miles in my garage with my hands, my tools and my sweat.

I think you misunderstand; I'm not asking you to prove anything. This is a forum for SHARING information. Many here on the forum are concerned about the additional stress suspension and driveline components will experience after installing a lift. If you have data regarding the acceptable operational angles for the CV joints used on our Bronco Sports you could assuage a lot of peoples' concerns. There are quite a few knowledgeable folks here who have spent a lot of time (unsuccessfully) looking for the data you say you have. The link you provided does not include that data, it simply says lifting will put more strain on CV joints--which we already knew--and to avoid extreme angles--which we ALSO already knew. What the site doesn't do is define "extreme" or how much additional strain you should expect following a lift.

So I ask again to please share your data, not because I think you're wrong, but because I'd like to know what the acceptable limits are for my CV joints so I can make decisions based on data, not sales material from people who sell lifts.

 

[Mark S.]

If you put a leveling kit on a Big Bend which suspension sits a full inch lower vs on Badlands, it impacts the control arms etc...

There isn't that much difference between the two. It's true you get approximately one inch more ground clearance with the Badlands, but that's owning to taller springs (about 1/2 inch) and larger diameter tires (the other 1/2 inch).

 

[TheCornerKing]

II get what you mean bro. Just tired of always having to argue over everything all the time. So below is the breakdown.

I have most the information I have from CV joint manufacturers technical documentation in paper form. There are some guides that could help on the NTN website. https://ntnamericas.com/technical-resources/tolerance-tables/

NTN and SKF states 0 degrees to 30 degrees for optimal performance but specially designed CV Joints have up to 36 degrees depending on applications.

We are really going down the rabbit hole for a measly 2” lift though. That is not enough of a difference to affect any wear part as the CV joint articulates way less than 30 degrees during full suspension travel. I will use my iphone to document the degrees of the cv axle at ride height from my lifted BS Badlands front and rear. If anyone needs photo proof to compare. I do not have a stock BS to measure but anyone looking for data would be able to measure the stock and compare to my 1.5 inch lift.

The front is the photo with black background. The CV axle shaft is angled downwards 11 degrees from the CV joint toward the transmission.

The red background is the rear. The axle is 3 degrees from the CV axle to the differential. I would imagine the axle would be somewhere near the same measurement as the front prior to the lift.

Once again I summarize - 3 to 11 degrees of ride height CV joint articulation with an overall of 30 degrees of preferred articulation for maximum strength. The front would have more articulation being steering, but the more you turn the wheel, the less strength a CV joint has anyways by design.

Keep in mind an experienced off roader will tell you never navigate gnarly obstacles while the wheels are turned sharp. Reason is so you don’t break a CV joint. Normal 4x4 platform use different CV joint options that have mechanical advantages from our front wheel drive to AWD platform as torque transfer and use dictates what type of CV joint is used.

 

[Ksnau]

That's great for you. We obviously have different priorities. Best of luck with yours.

That's great for you. We obviously have different priorities. Best of luck with yours.

Yeah but I guess I just want to make sure you know it's not that hard to learn this stuff so it's out there if you want to. Like I had a friend just recently he has a Badlands. He was off-roady and scraped a rock all the sudden. There's a whining noise but only every now and then and he was going to take it into the dealer and have to pay. Probably at least 250 bucks for a diagnostic fee if not more. And all it turned out to be was one of his heat shields that got bent and was scraping against the prop shaft and it was only happening every now and then because the car only turns the rear wheels when it needs to when it detects slip and I was able to figure that out and didn't cost him anything and we bent it back out of the way and all is good but it was tucked up there so high. You probably wouldn't have noticed it unless you knew what to look for. So that's all I was trying to say is now you're going to be doing this. It would be really helpful to at least get a basic understanding cuz things tend to happen. Good luck. I hope you find a good shop to install it to get a good kit and enjoy it.

 

[Meanderthal]

II get what you mean bro. Just tired of always having to argue over everything all the time. So below is the breakdown.

I have most the information I have from CV joint manufacturers technical documentation in paper form. There are some guides that could help on the NTN website. https://ntnamericas.com/technical-resources/tolerance-tables/

NTN and SKF states 0 degrees to 30 degrees for optimal performance but specially designed CV Joints have up to 36 degrees depending on applications.

We are really going down the rabbit hole for a measly 2” lift though. That is not enough of a difference to affect any wear part as the CV joint articulates way less than 30 degrees during full suspension travel. I will use my iphone to document the degrees of the cv axle at ride height from my lifted BS Badlands front and rear. If anyone needs photo proof to compare. I do not have a stock BS to measure but anyone looking for data would be able to measure the stock and compare to my 1.5 inch lift.

The front is the photo with black background. The CV axle shaft is angled downwards 11 degrees from the CV joint toward the transmission.

The red background is the rear. The axle is 3 degrees from the CV axle to the differential. I would imagine the axle would be somewhere near the same measurement as the front prior to the lift.

Once again I summarize - 3 to 11 degrees of ride height CV joint articulation with an overall of 30 degrees of preferred articulation for maximum strength. The front would have more articulation being steering, but the more you turn the wheel, the less strength a CV joint has anyways by design.

Keep in mind an experienced off roader will tell you never navigate gnarly obstacles while the wheels are turned sharp. Reason is so you don’t break a CV joint. Normal 4x4 platform use different CV joint options that have mechanical advantages from our front wheel drive to AWD platform as torque transfer and use dictates what type of CV joint is used.

Here are the driveline angles I measured on my BS before/after lift:
Drive line angles (stock and after)
Stock

Sitting: FR-7.7, FL-6.4, RR-1.9, RL-2.9​

Full Droop: FR-20.7, FL-17.3, RR-13.5, RL-12.1​

Lift

Sitting: FR-14.6, FL-12.7, RR-6.6, RL-7.1​

Full Droop: FR-26.6, FL-22.5, RR-14.1, RL-12.7​

This information is in the first post of my build thread (Link in my signature).

 

[zteB]

I bought a 2022 BS Badlands for my daughter (She is our only child and spoiled but is ok. She gets A's in school, has a 3rd Degree Black Belt, and sings like an angel.)

I purchased the Rough Country lift kit from the online dealer (not knowing it was not for the Badlands). After installation, there was no way to align the back end and at full suspension extension, the 255/65/17 tires rubbed on the integrated mud flap.

On my first call to Rough Country, the engineer said I should have plenty of room to adjust the alignment.

The first alignment could not correct the rear. I bought the SPC performance adjustable rear camber arm which helped but could not fully correct the Toe-In.

On my second call to Rough Country, the engineer asked what model it was and stated their kit was not for Badlands which shows on their website but not the site I bought it from.

I tried swapping the rear springs to Eibach, which have a .7" lift, but they were still too high, and the RC shocks have 2" more extension, which did not fix the tire rubbing issue.

Finally, to get it to work I had to re-purchase new Ford factory rear springs and shocks (I threw the ones I took off out ) I took the 1.5" rear control arm lift bushing out that came from RC. Put the factory rear springs and shocks on and was able to get the alignment in check and remove the over-travel issue with the factory shocks.

The Rough Country on the rear sat high and it didn't look right.

So with the RC front Coil-over front lift of 1.5" and the stock rear, it sits about an inch higher at the rear wheel well compared to the front which looks good.

The RC shocks have a better ride. So the next project is to take the RC rear shocks to a machinist who can cut 2" of travel out and re-thread them to fix the over-travel issue. They did ride nicer than stock shocks.

Master Yoda says, "Failure is the best instructor!". I agree and have a self-applied doctorate in how to do things the wrong way, unfortunately.

I will get some pictures posted this weekend hopefully.

The additional items installed are:

Borla Exhaust
Race Chip
S&B Intake
Redline Tuning hood QuickLift
I bought the 4D Tech Auto Start Stop Eliminator but have not installed it as the vehicle hardly turns off the engine and my daughter does not mind it.

(I bought a CVFab downpipe but have not been able to install it due to recovery from rotator cuff surgery.

IF ANYONE HAS INSTALLED A CVFAB DOWNPIPE AND CAN POST HOW THEY GOT TO THE DARN THING INSTALLED, I WOULD APPRECIATE THE KNOWLEDGE )

When we got the vehicle my 15-year-old daughter said "Dad, can you wait a couple of weeks to let me drive it before you start putting stuff on it?" (I gave her a week and a half.)

 

[Dude]

….
Master Yoda says, "Failure is the best instructor!". I agree and have a self-applied doctorate in how to do things the wrong way, unfortunately.

As they like to say in the Sunflower state:

“Ad astra per aspera”

 

[BSBB4Les]

As they like to say in the Sunflower state:

“Ad astra per aspera”

I've flagged this for future reference!

 

[BSBB4Les]

You live in a beautiful state!

“Nil Sine Numine“

I say Amen to that, Dude!

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