Can someone explain the differences between the BroncoSports AWD and the Subaru's?

[GoHack]

I've owned a Subaru Crosstrek w/AWD, but w/a manual transmission.
It actually did quite well going through snow.
Even better than what my experience has been driving a regular 4WD in snow.

As for my Badlands, I haven't really driven it in snow as of yet.

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[sajohnson]

BTW -- for anyone interested in AWD systems, both of these articles look really good:

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15102281/best-all-wheel-drive-system/

https://jalopnik.com/how-all-wheel-drive-works-a-ridiculously-detailed-tech-1846233533

 

[Mark S.]

As for my Badlands, I haven't really driven it in snow as of yet.

Prolly gonna need to get a bit outside of Palmdale to see any snow...

 

[Goinbroke2]

While I do see some good answers, I'd like to point out that not only can you lock the rear diff in the badlands, you also have different throttle control for various modes. A subi has an AWD system hooked to an engine. Period. The BS has AWD hooked to an engine, but also has the ability to modulate throttle, modulate traction control, or lock everything up.
The BS is better than the subi, but the badlands is MUCH better than a regular BS.

 

[sajohnson]

See the Jalopnic article linked to above. Scroll down to:

"On-Demand Active AWD — PTU/RDM or “Hang On” above a photo of a BS. There is a lot of info there.

Then down to "Modern “4WD Lock” Buttons" above a photo of the center console in a BS BL.

The author is grouchy (I am but the humble messenger):

"This brings me to something of a personal sore spot with some on-demand AWD vehicles - buttons that suggest that a center or rear differential can be locked. A prime example would be the new Bronco Sport Badlands which has what looks like a center and rear diff lock button. Given that they have no center differential, or even rear differential (more on that in a minute), what do these actually do?"

"“Most are just little more than a marketing gimmick,” says Chip. “They lock the coupling for a short time, usually only at low speeds. Some stay locked with steering input and others open the coupling [as needed].”

(Chip is: "Chip Fairbanks, an engineer who worked on various AWD systems for a major supplier, explained how this worked to me using the 1st Generation Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 he worked on as an example.")

The author is correct about the lack of differentials. In spite of that, the words "locking differential" are on page 235 of the owner's manual. Ford might have intended to be intentionally deceptive, but more likely they simply use the term "differential" because it's a known term.

Also, regardless of what Chip says, the AWD system in the BS BL has been proven to work very well in real off-road conditions.

There is a good video embedded in the article:


From YouTube:

"Test drive on ice and snow - Suzuki Vitara 1.4T All Grip Select.
SNOW, LOCK & AUTO modes - indications of 4WD, current control, transfer oil, differentials speeds, accelerator, wheel speeds.

Info:
4WD (%) is not an indication of torque distribution. That is control duty ratio - PWM (Pulse-Width Modulation)."

 

[Goinbroke2]

Thanks for the response, however I am EXTREMELY skeptical on ANY reviews online as 90% have no idea what they're talking about. This guy appears to be knowledegable and perhaps is right in some things. But...I have PERSONALLY hung a wheel and it spun/lock/spun/lock until I realised I didn't have the diff locked, that was the brakes engaging (trac control) I locked the diff and powered forward with the one tire on the rock. So...he can "say" what it will and won't do, good for him, I have personally done what he says can't be done I guess.

 

[sajohnson]

Thanks for the response, however I am EXTREMELY skeptical on ANY reviews online as 90% have no idea what they're talking about. This guy appears to be knowledegable and perhaps is right in some things. But...I have PERSONALLY hung a wheel and it spun/lock/spun/lock until I realised I didn't have the diff locked, that was the brakes engaging (trac control) I locked the diff and powered forward with the one tire on the rock. So...he can "say" what it will and won't do, good for him, I have personally done what he says can't be done I guess.

Agreed.

As I said above: "Also, regardless of what Chip says, the AWD system in the BS BL has been proven to work very well in real off-road conditions."

As you said, there is more bs than solid objective info online. In this case, Jalopnik is a respected publication and the author is quoting an engineer that works/worked for a majors supplier of AWD systems.

The one claim that was specific to the BS BL is that it has "no center differential, or even rear differential." That's true, however that alone is not necessarily a bad thing. For serious heavy-duty use (towing 15,000 pound trailers up a mountain on an old fire road), yes, differentials are required. But for anything any BS or BS BL owner is likely to do, the PDU with clutches is fine, and it allows the BS to operate as an ordinary FWD vehicle most of the time -- saving fuel and wear on the rest of the drivetrain.

Another claim -- about diff lock buttons in general, was:

“Most are just little more than a marketing gimmick,” says Chip. “They lock the coupling for a short time, usually only at low speeds. Some stay locked with steering input and others open the coupling [as needed].”

I'd note:

1) Chip (the engineer) says, "most" -- not the BS BL specifically.
2) There are several different AWD systems, Chip (presumably) only worked on one of them.
3) So the system in the BS - BS BL may not operate that way.
4) Even if it does, it clearly works well regardless.

While I am defending the BS - BS BL, it would bother me if it turns out that the AWD system in our BS BL does not have the ability to fully LOCK the center and rear. It may not make much practical difference for most of us, but it is a capability that was/is advertised and owners paid for.

Even our 1997 RAV4 has a manually locking center diff (and a Torsen rear diff).

Regardless, I do think that article (and the C&D one) is interesting. The author covers a lot of AWD and 4WD systems.

 

[Goinbroke2]

As far as the locking diffs, I’ve personally watched the tire hanging, spin in the air while grabbing as the brake locks and forces the wheel on the ground to move the vehicle. Then, hitting the rear diff lock button, it pushes the vehicle forward and the tire hanging freely, turns with the tire on the ground.(diff is locked)

Like you said, a lot of speculation on the net, I prefer to go out and prove it one way or another. All the “modes” are available to manually engage, however, in “normal” the computer will engage what it requires on its own. So while it might be in “normal”, it has locked up the centre and rear diff and reduced the throttle sensitivity just as if you put it in “rock crawl”.
Also, when the computer just won’t get you out (keeps killing power or brakes are all cycling to keep traction) you can “override” everything by manually locking the diffs and turning off traction control and just roast all four tires. Especially if you torque it up against the converter to build boost, it will literally throw four rooster tails of mud 25’ in the air! Being a “driver” or being an “off roader” is two entirely different things.

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