$1,000 loan payments (auto market as a whole, not necessarily BS)

[Robins21]

Personal vehicles have their downsides as does being forced to drive everywhere, particularly during rush hour in urban areas.

Cars are expensive and they contribute to air pollution -- although emissions have decreased dramatically in the last few decades.

I've read that an unintended consequence of the interstate highway system was/is suburban sprawl. I'd be happy if there were no more new developments built -- they are destroying our county -- but people keep buying houses around here, knowing that they will have to drive everywhere and will have a soul-crushing commute.

I don't get it, but the reason we have a car-centric infrastructure is because that's what supports the lifestyle many people want. One common reason is that they mistakenly think they will save money by moving further from D.C. Rent and mortgages are lower, but most people seem to forget the value of their time, and the fact that the cost of driving is a lot more than the cost of fuel -- it's roughly $0.60 per mile, more for high end vehicles.

My understanding is that it it's extremely difficult for a county to pass laws banning all residential construction, so unfortunately urban areas/job centers experiencing population growth will continue to see more sprawl and more traffic.

I was born in late 1957 & grew up in a city in NJ That was the only place I lived where you could walk to get to stores or get to a bus to a job if you worked in the same city you lived in. Even in the city my Mom still needed a car to get to work or go shopping. I have never lived in another city & never will again. My wife & I prefer country living & not being within spitting distance of your neighbors, so a vehicle is needed to get around. We are fine with that. I have had commutes of 45 minutes to one hour each way because we choose to live where we want. The longest I have worked at any one job has been 10 years so we are going to live where we want & commute to work.

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[sajohnson]

I was born in late 1957 & grew up in a city in NJ That was the only place I lived where you could walk to get to stores or get to a bus to a job if you worked in the same city you lived in. Even in the city my Mom still needed a car to get to work or go shopping. I have never lived in another city & never will again. My wife & I prefer country living & not being within spitting distance of your neighbors, so a vehicle is needed to get around. We are fine with that. I have had commutes of 45 minutes to one hour each way because we choose to live where we want. The longest I have worked at any one job has been 10 years.

I agree.

Our situation is very similar. I've lived in Maryland essentially my entire life (born in 1961). D.C. suburbs through age 12 and then rural Carroll County.

Every place I've lived required a car to get around. There was a bus line near our house in the suburbs but it could not replace a car.

As a kid, the suburbs had some appealing aspects, like plenty of other kids to play with, a strip mall we could walk to and return soda bottles for change, and the Good Humor ice cream truck!

Still, like you, I much prefer the country -- much more freedom and privacy. I bought this place in 1985 because it was rural, secluded, and the closest house is hundreds of feet away through the woods and underbrush. For most of the year our cabin can't be seen from the road.

Being able to own a personal vehicle is what enabled me to live here and work close to D.C. My commute was the same as yours. Approx. 40 minutes (37 miles) one-way -- sometimes an hour (~50 miles) -- but I worked nights so I avoided rush hour. One difference is that I worked the same job for 27 years. I retired in 2010.

We hear a lot about so-called "smart growth" -- people living in concrete high-rise buildings above subway stations and near bus routes. Cars are all but banned. That's fine if people willingly choose to live that way, but I get the impression that some smart growth zealots would force people to live like that if they had the power to do so -- using zoning regs and jacking the price of fuel to $15 or $20 per gallon. Of course that would decimate the value of rural properties like yours and ours, but hey, sacrifices must be made, AMIRITE?

 

[jkernitzki]

Cities were never designed as living spaces, they were crossroads for commerce and distribution. I despise cities with all my soul, having lived my entire life within three of the top ten metros in the US (LA, San Diego, and now Phoenix), when I wasn't deployed.

Unfortunately, even when I became independent and could choose, my careers necessitated that continued proximity. Now retired, my health mandates availability of medical care greater than I could find in a more preferable location.

For me and my family, a car is not an option, it is a requirement. Mass transit is a complete and utter joke, and quite honestly, getting more dangerous by the day.

Those that prefer the rat's maze urban fantasy are welcome to it, but don't presume for one second that the rest of us do, or are willing to be lectured to about it. [/rant]

 

[TheX]

Cities were never designed as living spaces, they were crossroads for commerce and distribution. I despise cities with all my soul, having lived my entire life within three of the top ten metros in the US (LA, San Diego, and now Phoenix), when I wasn't deployed.

Unfortunately, even when I became independent and could choose, my careers necessitated that continued proximity. Now retired, my health mandates availability of medical care greater than I could find in a more preferable location.

For me and my family, a car is not an option, it is a requirement. Mass transit is a complete and utter joke, and quite honestly, getting more dangerous by the day.

Those that prefer the rat's maze urban fantasy are welcome to it, but don't presume for one second that the rest of us do, or are willing to be lectured to about it. [/rant]

Decades ago I lived in southern California, Orange County TBE.

The bus system rocks, big time. Now I'm north of Austin, and it is a jock. I'd be doomed without a car.

 

[LawDog]

I would never pay $8/dozen for eggs… oh wait, never mind.

People make good and bad purchasing decisions all the time. To assign an arbitrary value in this context does not inform anything. Why not $1200, or $700, or $839? There’s exceptions to every “rule.” Down payment, interest rate, maintenance costs, miles driven per year, how long a vehicle is kept before replacement, etc. are all valid data points to evaluate whether or not a particular individual buying a specific vehicle is/was a good decision. And, things change, always.

 

[TooManyVehicles]

I ordered a Maverick early July 22 (a couple days after it was announced). Months later (November), I was having problems with my old clunker (2006 Outback w/150K miles on it) and needed a car. I was fortunate enough to find an in-transit Bronco Sport Badlands that the dealer was willing to sell at list. This was during COVID when cars got scarce and most were paying above list for them.

I get to the dealer prepared to pay cash, and they told me I could get Ford 36 month financing at 0% (or 48 month at 0.9%). So, I went for the 0% financing - this resulted in a $920/month payment.

Fast forward to April 22, and my Maverick (Lariat Lux Hybrid w/CP 360 and Sunroof) comes in. Again, since Ford was offering 0% (36 month) when I first ordered, I was still eligible for it. I applied, thinking that no way would Ford do a second loan, but it went through w/o issue. So, the 2nd loan payment was slightly north of $1000/month. In both cases w/0% money I borrowed EVERYTHING including the taxes and registration.

So, I had 2k/month car payments.

I eventually paid off the Bronco Sport payments a few months shy of the 36 month mark, and paid off the Maverick a couple months shy of 36 as I sold it to Carvana.

I must admit not having those payments every month has made the cash flow situation better, but free money is free money - especially as I was able to bank 5% on those funds w/no risk.

 

[sajohnson]

I ordered a Maverick early July 22 (a couple days after it was announced). Months later (November), I was having problems with my old clunker (2006 Outback w/150K miles on it) and needed a car. I was fortunate enough to find an in-transit Bronco Sport Badlands that the dealer was willing to sell at list. This was during COVID when cars got scarce and most were paying above list for them.

I get to the dealer prepared to pay cash, and they told me I could get Ford 36 month financing at 0% (or 48 month at 0.9%). So, I went for the 0% financing - this resulted in a $920/month payment.

Fast forward to April 22, and my Maverick (Lariat Lux Hybrid w/CP 360 and Sunroof) comes in. Again, since Ford was offering 0% (36 month) when I first ordered, I was still eligible for it. I applied, thinking that no way would Ford do a second loan, but it went through w/o issue. So, the 2nd loan payment was slightly north of $1000/month. In both cases w/0% money I borrowed EVERYTHING including the taxes and registration.

So, I had 2k/month car payments.

I eventually paid off the Bronco Sport payments a few months shy of the 36 month mark, and paid off the Maverick a couple months shy of 36 as I sold it to Carvana.

I must admit not having those payments every month has made the cash flow situation better, but free money is free money - especially as I was able to bank 5% on those funds w/no risk.

That's the way to do it (if financially feasible)!

You got a good deal on the Badlands considering the market at the time. We paid MSRP also but were able to get the $1,000 credit for ordering. The weasels at the dealership pretended it didn't apply to the BS(!) and made me search for it online and show them.

In our case our income is limited to my pension so we had to keep the payment down to ~$500. If I was still working we would have financed everything at 0.9% and kept more money invested.

We paid it off in 3 years and only paid about $250 in interest. We lost the amount the $20,000 would have earned in the S&P 500 index fund, but that couldn't be helped -- I don't have one of those 6-figure pensions.

 

[TheX]

I ordered a Maverick early July 22 (a couple days after it was announced). Months later (November), I was having problems with my old clunker (2006 Outback w/150K miles on it) and needed a car. I was fortunate enough to find an in-transit Bronco Sport Badlands that the dealer was willing to sell at list. This was during COVID when cars got scarce and most were paying above list for them.

I get to the dealer prepared to pay cash, and they told me I could get Ford 36 month financing at 0% (or 48 month at 0.9%). So, I went for the 0% financing - this resulted in a $920/month payment.

Fast forward to April 22, and my Maverick (Lariat Lux Hybrid w/CP 360 and Sunroof) comes in. Again, since Ford was offering 0% (36 month) when I first ordered, I was still eligible for it. I applied, thinking that no way would Ford do a second loan, but it went through w/o issue. So, the 2nd loan payment was slightly north of $1000/month. In both cases w/0% money I borrowed EVERYTHING including the taxes and registration.

So, I had 2k/month car payments.

I eventually paid off the Bronco Sport payments a few months shy of the 36 month mark, and paid off the Maverick a couple months shy of 36 as I sold it to Carvana.

I must admit not having those payments every month has made the cash flow situation better, but free money is free money - especially as I was able to bank 5% on those funds w/no risk.

Debt is still debt.

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