Back in the good 'ol days, we had serviceable transmissions, with easy to change filters and fluids. Now, there's no easily accessible filter, and fluid changes are not easy to access for drain and refill ports.
Ok. Your standard answer to these questions is to take your vehicle in for routine service checks. You are saying this without regard to the fact that the life of transmission and gear oil is 150,000 miles and you told people to change oils only then.
You haven’t said anything of value so there isn’t anything to take from your comments on this topic.
You are making a strawman argument. Please go back and reread my posts. Quote the one where I said owner's should blindly wait until 150K to change their trans fluid. I've repeatedly said that Ford bases its service recommendations on data, and owners would be wise to follow them. The recommended change interval for trans fluid is 150K. Ford ALSO recommends periodic inspection of the fluid. If the trans fluid proves serviceable on inspection you should not change it until the recommended interval due to the inherent risks associated with maintenance. These recommendations are based in part on the studies of maintenance practices conducted by Waddington during WWII.
We've always bought cars with manual transmissions, so my experience with automatics is limited. I had a 'retired' '85 Impala MSP cruiser with an auto trans, and we have a Winnebago View built on a 2008 "Dodge" (MB) Sprinter chassis. It has a 5 speed auto with manual shift.
You are literally saying nothing.
Sure, some dealers will provide misdiagnoses and recommend early and unnecessary maintenance and repairs in order to pad their wallets, but an honest dealer also likes to have happy customers without premature failures of their cars.We've always bought cars with manual transmissions, so my experience with automatics is limited. I had a 'retired' '85 Impala MSP cruiser with an auto trans, and we have a Winnebago View built on a 2008 "Dodge" (MB) Sprinter chassis. It has a 5 speed auto with manual shift.
MB started out saying that their ATF was good for the life of the vehicle. That's a stretch even for lower load applications -- let alone an 11,000+ pound RV with the frontal area of a sheet of plywood (or worse). Then they went to 80K miles, then 60K (ours), and I believe they dropped it again to 40K.
The previous version of the Sprinter (the "T1N" 5 cyl.) had a weaker version of the same transmission ours has. In RV service the weaker unit typically fails around 100K miles, even when the fluid is changed frequently, the rig is not overloaded, and there is no towing. There is not much the owner can do when the mfr tries to get away with using a passenger car transmission in a fully loaded truck. Even 20K mile ATF replacements do not extend its life. "The best, or Nothing"? Pathetic.
Ours has a stronger version of that trans, but I still changed the ATF and filter at 50,000 miles. As you said, it is no longer easy. First -- there is no dipstick -- I mean "special tool". MB will sell you one for $100(!!) -- or $20 on eBay. Then, the drain plug was so tight that my hex bit socket snapped while trying to remove it! So I reluctantly dropped the pan. Of course that made a huge mess.
Then I turned the engine by hand, removed the drain plug from the torque converter, and drained it. Another unavoidable mess.
The fluid looked almost new and smelled fine, so I decided that for the next change I'd buy another hex bit and just pull the drain plug.
As for dealers who recommend maintenance intervals significantly shorter than what Ford specifies -- most (but not all) exist to separate vehicle owners from their money. That is their primary directive. They make most of their profit from service. They have a STRONG incentive to lie about what is necessary and how often. A common money maker is to tell an owner that their brake pads need to be replaced because they are "worn". Technically, if the brakes have been used at all the pads have some wear! Dealers will replace pads that have most of their material left.
Ford has done extensive testing. They are on the hook for the warranty. They know what is reasonable. In fact, even factory maintenance intervals are often excessive/conservative. Barring very unusual operating conditions, there is no reason to exceed the frequency that Ford (and other mfrs) recommend. It's just wasteful -- and as Mark pointed out, every time any service is done there is a chance that something will go wrong.
That's good info I hadn't seen before. It backs up my hunch from post #34 above:
True. It's safe to say that no auto mfr has their customers in mind at any time. Their primary, overriding goal is to maximize profit. There's nothing wrong with that but it does lead to some poor results. Competition is what saves us.
I'll take that as an admission that you cannot find a post where I said what you claimed I said.
I'd suggest that the vast majority of dealers engage in shady, unethical practices because they are focused on profit.
I seem to recall reading about that. It may have been another make as well. That should have resulted in a class-action lawsuit. As you said, " I followed their recommendation and the oil changes were done at the dealer." It's outrageous that BMW made you pay for that!
You’re really dense.
That’s amazing but at those mileage readings, if those were automatic transmissions, you probably shouldn’t change the transmission fluid in any of them, just keep driving.
I guess we have to disagree on some things, but I do separate service and sales.I'd suggest that the vast majority of dealers engage in shady, unethical practices because they are focused on profit.
That's not to say there are no honest, ethical dealers -- judging from posts here and elsewhere there are some. That said, for maintenance -- and once a vehicle is out of warranty, repairs -- most people are much better off going to a professional, independent repair shop. That's been the case over multiple studies and surveys over the years.
I seem to recall reading about that. It may have been another make as well. That should have resulted in a class-action lawsuit. As you said, " I followed their recommendation and the oil changes were done at the dealer." It's outrageous that BMW made you pay for that!
In any case, those things happen. That said, we should not extrapolate from an engine oil sludge issue with one mfr almost 20 years ago,2 to all maintenance intervals for all makes, models, and years being too long. If that were the case there would be broken down cars littering the highways and lawsuits flying.
The vast majority of mfr maintenance schedules are more than adequate.
This is anecdotal as well, but we have 3 vehicles:
* '93 Nissan NX2000 -- 250,000 miles
* '97 Toyota RAV4 -- 190,000 miles
* '02 Subaru WRX -- >200,000 miles.
All start easily, burn little to no oil, and run great.
The RAV is my wife's, the other 2 were my commuter cars. I drove them like I stole them -- hard acceleration; shifts just shy of the redline; lots of engine braking.
[My daily commute...]
Maintenance? Zero!
OK, slightly more than zero. Oil changes per mfr's "normal service" schedule which was 7,500 miles for both. I did/do use synthetic oil, mostly Mobil 1.
Beyond that I'd change the plugs and filters (if needed); bleed the brakes occasionally, replace pads and rotors. Nothing major.
Of course, all 3 of those cars have manual transmissions.
