Anyone planning on doing 25k or 30k mile fluid flush?

[Mark S.]

analyze away. might be fun. Color certainly does not tell the whole story. theres a 2nd half to my statement.

I will defer to you for your further analysis. You have more to say than me. BUT the whole direction I was going…was something you referenced - Waddington Effect. Don’t service something that doesn’t need serviced.

I was agreeing with you for the most part. My only objection is your suggestion to look at the color to determine change interval. I don't believe that's an accurate gauge. I would stick with Ford's recommended interval. If anyone does decide to change it early for whatever reason please consider having it analyzed to determine fluid status.

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[petegee77]

Is anyone planning on doing 25k or 30k mile fluid flush? Radiator, transmission, etc etc.?
My dealership has a 30k mile recommended maintenance and outside of oil change, tire rotation, air filter, cabin filter, the remainder is fluid flushes. They have it marked at $1,000 and curious what others thoughts on flushing fluids at that mileage is.
This is my first brand new vehicle so I’ve never had to make these decisions this early on.

Just sounds like a $$ grab by the dealer. TOTAL waste of your time and hard earned money IMHO.

 

[Devil6]

As per the owners manual of my 2023 BS OBX, transmission fluid is recommended to be changed at 150,000 miles and the coolant's good for 200,000 miles or 10 years, whichever comes first. You're wasting money, and throwing away fluids that are not even close to 25% of their service life at 30,000 miles. And don't just change the filters "because it's time", change them if they're dirty/clogged. I go through 2-3 cabin filters a year per vehicle, but only 1 air filter every 20,000 km (16,000ish miles) which works out to about one every two years or so. The dealership makes their money from the service department, and the service advisors are encouraged to upsell maintenance packages. Don't fault them, they're just doing their jobs. But I would advise you to decline the fluid flushes, as it's not recommended at that mileage.

I’m new here so I know how this will go over but here it goes.

I acknowledge that Ford and the auto industry put incredible ratings on their fluids. These are probably “lifetime” fluids that the owner never has to worry about because the original owner will sell or destroy their vehicle before the 150,000 mile service interval arrives.

But, the average vehicle in the U.S. is ~12 years old and if you allow 15,000 miles per year, that is ~180,000 miles. That average car has probably had transmission and cooling system repairs by this time.

When transmissions fail, they do so due to neglect and abuse. These are things like poor maintenance (low transmission fluid) and abuse (overloading it) that can happen as early as 80,000 miles.

All Ford cares about is that you happily get to the end of the warranty. 80,000 miles gets you there but how do you prevent your transmission from failing due to low fluid level? You can’t because there is no transmission dipstick. How far and how many times have you overloaded your transmission? You don’t know and if you wait until 150,000 miles to change it good luck.

It’s the same for your differentials, transfer case or PTU, and coolant.

And, no matter what anybody tells you, motor oil will not go 8,000-15,000 miles either, even synthetic. Plus, running dirty or old motor oil through your turbo is how you guarantee a turbo failure.

For a few years, Ford used orange antifreeze-coolant that had a lifespan of 5 years/ 150,000 miles but it was failing before that so now they use yellow antifreeze-coolant. If you never changed your orange antifreeze-coolant you are waiting for a failure.

I don’t care how many years you have as a service rep, unless you are saying Fords are disposable at the end of the advertised “lifespan”, you are wrong and you are setting people up for failure.

To the person who asked the question originally, these things are important. The number one thing that determines how reliable your vehicle is is how you maintain it based on how you use it. Filters, engine oil, differentials, and transfer case/ PTU can be done by you. Coolant and transmission requires some special tools so you can do it but a dealer may be the best option. Each should cost just over $100 Sometimes dealers will argue against doing it but don’t listen to them and tell them to do what you are asking for.

 

[Mark S.]

I don’t care how many years you have as a service rep, unless you are saying Fords are disposable at the end of the advertised “lifespan”, you are wrong and you are setting people up for failure.

Well hell, R, since you're clearly the undisputed authority it's too bad you didn't join the forum a few months ago; we could've put this topic to bed.

 

[Devil6]

Well hell, R, since you're clearly the undisputed authority it's too bad you didn't join the forum a few months ago; we could've put this topic to bed.

With everything else that was said, there is no other way to say it especially when someone claiming to be an authority is giving bad advice.

Thank you for joining in but, how is your comment helping anybody that needs an honest answer?

There is a reason Ford doesn’t warranty engines, transmissions, drivetrains, and cooling systems for the “lifetime” of their oils and fluids. They aren’t dumb.

 

[Alfa 2407]

The way I see it is this, it is your vehicle, your choice, but I will say this, while I have no opinion on the radiator flush I have always kept my distance from transmission flushes, they can, under certain circumstances, do more harm than good, I have known people who have had these types of services done and left with more problems than they arrived with, my best bud had his car towed out of the shop it drove into after they ruined the Trans, something to do with a damaged valve body, I wasn't given specifics, but long story short, don't fix what isn't broke, as for Mark and devil are saying, I believe there is truth on both sides, preventative maintenance is a double edge sword, and you should pay attention to what your service manual says, but you should also pay attention to what your car is doing, and give it the regular check all around, don't neglect it, stuff can break without being obvious, and not every car breaks in the same way at the same times, for example, some people are having issues with the batteries as soon as 1 year of ownership, and some have gone almost 3 years with the 21 model

 

[Devil6]

Completely agree with your transmission comment. Let a Ford dealer do it.

For the other maintenance needs, it is too easy for the owner to do and the benefits exceed the potential costs

 

[Alfa 2407]

Completely agree with your transmission comment. Let a Ford dealer do it.

For the other maintenance needs, it is too easy for the owner to do and the benefits exceed the potential costs

Understand I am neither agreeing or disagreeing with you or Mark, all I am saying is that the op should be weary of the risks of such a undertaking, mistakes can be made, things can be broken, and not just at you run of the mill mechanic shops but at dealerships as well

 

[davidg4781]

All Ford cares about is that you happily get to the end of the warranty.

I think they also have a reputation to care about, too. These aren't Kias and Hyundais where you never hear anyone talk about how long these cars last.

I can't remember if it was Reddit or Facebook but all of a sudden I'm scrolling and seeing Fords from the 1990s and earlier. Maybe these groups or subs were always there but I was a Honda Fanboi at the time and just kept scrolling.

Maybe Ford doesn't put as much effort into longevity as Honda and Toyota but they certainly want to make sure customers trust their brand.

 

[Bucko]

I’m new here so I know how this will go over but here it goes.

I acknowledge that Ford and the auto industry put incredible ratings on their fluids. These are probably “lifetime” fluids that the owner never has to worry about because the original owner will sell or destroy their vehicle before the 150,000 mile service interval arrives.

But, the average vehicle in the U.S. is ~12 years old and if you allow 15,000 miles per year, that is ~180,000 miles. That average car has probably had transmission and cooling system repairs by this time.

When transmissions fail, they do so due to neglect and abuse. These are things like poor maintenance (low transmission fluid) and abuse (overloading it) that can happen as early as 80,000 miles.

All Ford cares about is that you happily get to the end of the warranty. 80,000 miles gets you there but how do you prevent your transmission from failing due to low fluid level? You can’t because there is no transmission dipstick. How far and how many times have you overloaded your transmission? You don’t know and if you wait until 150,000 miles to change it good luck.

It’s the same for your differentials, transfer case or PTU, and coolant.

And, no matter what anybody tells you, motor oil will not go 8,000-15,000 miles either, even synthetic. Plus, running dirty or old motor oil through your turbo is how you guarantee a turbo failure.

For a few years, Ford used orange antifreeze-coolant that had a lifespan of 5 years/ 150,000 miles but it was failing before that so now they use yellow antifreeze-coolant. If you never changed your orange antifreeze-coolant you are waiting for a failure.

I don’t care how many years you have as a service rep, unless you are saying Fords are disposable at the end of the advertised “lifespan”, you are wrong and you are setting people up for failure.

To the person who asked the question originally, these things are important. The number one thing that determines how reliable your vehicle is is how you maintain it based on how you use it. Filters, engine oil, differentials, and transfer case/ PTU can be done by you. Coolant and transmission requires some special tools so you can do it but a dealer may be the best option. Each should cost just over $100 Sometimes dealers will argue against doing it but don’t listen to them and tell them to do what you are asking for.

I for one do transmission flushes every 30K. I have done this on three past and present Ford F-150's, and have never had an issue with a low pressure flush process. All my trucks were high mileage, and my current one is at 186K. No transmission issues were encountered.

At the very least, a pan drop and filter change should be considered. That would at least get you around 5 fresh quarts of automatic transmission fluid, plus a clean filter. Transmission fluid has additives that assist with auto transmission clutches, so if you don't flush/change fluid, also consider an auto transmission additive every 30K.

 

[Bucko]

The way I see it is this, it is your vehicle, your choice, but I will say this, while I have no opinion on the radiator flush I have always kept my distance from transmission flushes, they can, under certain circumstances, do more harm than good, I have known people who have had these types of services done and left with more problems than they arrived with, my best bud had his car towed out of the shop it drove into after they ruined the Trans, something to do with a damaged valve body, I wasn't given specifics, but long story short, don't fix what isn't broke, as for Mark and devil are saying, I believe there is truth on both sides, preventative maintenance is a double edge sword, and you should pay attention to what your service manual says, but you should also pay attention to what your car is doing, and give it the regular check all around, don't neglect it, stuff can break without being obvious, and not every car breaks in the same way at the same times, for example, some people are having issues with the batteries as soon as 1 year of ownership, and some have gone almost 3 years with the 21 model

In cases like this, the majority falls in the fail mode because the transmission is already having issues; folks think they can avoid a costly transmission repair or replace if the change the fluid. Its already too late if they waited until high mileage failure occurred. Reasonable fluid changes can prevent these high mileage failures.

 

[Mark S.]

Thank you for joining in but, how is your comment helping anybody that needs an honest answer?

It doesn't. It wasn't meant to. It was my way of expressing humor. I've already posted on this topic; you can read through the thread to see my comments. It struck me as funny that someone is willing to state--with no background, proof, data, citation, etc.--that everything everyone else writes in opposition to their opinion is simply wrong.

I don't believe anyone here on this post has suggested you should blindly go 150K without changing your transmission fluid. What has been posted time and again is to follow Ford's recommended service guidance, which includes inspection of the transmission fluid. If an inspection reveals a need to change the fluid then you should do so. If the fluid passes inspection I see no reason not to use it for the full recommended 150K, mainly because as @Alfa 2407 notes, performing intrusive maintenance imposes risks.

 

[davidg4781]

What is Ford's process for changing the transmission fluid on the BS?

On the Hondas I drove and looked into, it was a simple drain and fill. You took off the fill plug, took off the drain plug, plugged it back up, then put in about 3 quarts usually. I believe you were supposed to do this every so many miles, maybe 20k. I didn't look into it too much since I had a manual transmission.

Is Ford's this simple?

 

[Alfa 2407]

Ford’s manual states to use twin virgin hummingbirds in a handheld gold and jewel encased Egyptian sarcophagus to drain transmission fluid from two ports built into the transmission for the purpose of draining the fluid. The hummingbirds are subsequently discarded as shop supplies and billed accordingly to the vehicle owner.

In other words… I have no idea ?

Sounds pretty close ?

 

[Devil6]

There are really only two reliable car brands: Toyota and Honda. Nobody puts the R&D into a product like they do but, they do make mistakes.

Ford is equivalent to Mazda, Subaru, VW. Ford uses cheaper interior parts.

Ford is better than Nissan, Kia and Hyundai. The Koreans use inferior motor components but overall better packaging and assembly.

Everybody is better than JEEP and FIAT

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