Picture of the installed tray(?) for fuel drainage

[Bucko]

Maybe I missed a thread that shows a pic of what the recall install looks like that Ford is doing for the potential of a fuel leak around the injectors. If so, can you point me to that thread?

I bought my BS about a month ago, and all indications have stated that a dealer cannot sell a vehicle that has a recall against it unless the recall has been performed. So this weekend I looked at our 2023 BS Outer banks, but I don't see anything that appears to be a troft or whatever that would divert fuel away from the engine.

Is there a pic out there that shows this recall item installed?

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[Mark S.]

Here's a video of a technician performing the recall work on an Escape. Pretty much the same for the Bronco Sport.

 

[Bucko]

No wonder I did not see it! I was looking for some sort of metal tray of sorts, and not a black tube that gets inserted into the side of the upper engine.

 

[sajohnson]

Here's a video of a technician performing the recall work on an Escape. Pretty much the same for the Bronco Sport.

Good video, thanks.

There sure is a lot involved in removing the battery and the tray (relatively speaking).

I guess that recall works but it seems jury-rigged. Odd that the hole just happens to be there.

I admit to not knowing much about the problem. This is the recall that involves cracked (or potentially cracked) fuel injectors, right? If so, is there a reason why Ford doesn't replace them with more robust injectors?

 

[jkeaton]

No wonder I did not see it! I was looking for some sort of metal tray of sorts, and not a black tube that gets inserted into the side of the upper engine.

I have an Escape and did not even know this impacted them as well (have received no recall notice). Don't seem to see a lot of concern in the Escape forums and FB groups about this issue. Probably because the platform has been around forever, and Escape owners are used to recalls?

 

[Mark S.]

I admit to not knowing much about the problem. This is the recall that involves cracked (or potentially cracked) fuel injectors, right? If so, is there a reason why Ford doesn't replace them with more robust injectors?

All fuel injectors are subject to failure; there is no evidence the injectors in use are more prone to failure than others on the market. This recall isn't about faulty injectors, it's about the possibility of engine fire due to fuel leaks in the engine bay. Based on a number of cases involving under-hood fires, Ford (and the NHTSA) determined IF a fuel leak occurs near the fuel injectors, the fuel will pass near hot engine components when exiting the engine bay. There is no way to totally prevent fuel leaks, so planning for them is part of the design process. The existing hole was apparently Ford's first take at planning for fuel leaks near the top of the engine, but fuel exiting that hole gets near enough to hot components to pose a fire hazard. The hose simply transports the fuel away from the hot components.

 

[Bucko]

Good video, thanks.

There sure is a lot involved in removing the battery and the tray (relatively speaking).

I guess that recall works but it seems jury-rigged. Odd that the hole just happens to be there.

I admit to not knowing much about the problem. This is the recall that involves cracked (or potentially cracked) fuel injectors, right? If so, is there a reason why Ford doesn't replace them with more robust injectors?

The injectors are already robust, like any other injector used on automobiles. This issue is that one could crack and leak, and there was not sufficient drainage away from a hot engine. It was determined that there is no reason to change injectors, as any injector could crack and leak..

 

[RSH]

In the lawsuit it claims the leak can be up to 19 liters per hour, I wouldn't want a potential leaking BS or Escape sitting in any enclosed area leaking a cup of fuel let alone 19 liters.

https://www.classaction.org/news/cracked-fuel-injectors-can-cause-ford-escape-bronco-sport-models-to-suddenly-catch-fire-class-action-says

 

[Meanderthal]

In the lawsuit it claims the leak can be up to 19 liters per hour, I wouldn't want a potential leaking BS or Escape sitting in any enclosed area leaking a cup of fuel let alone 19 liters.

https://www.classaction.org/news/cracked-fuel-injectors-can-cause-ford-escape-bronco-sport-models-to-suddenly-catch-fire-class-action-says

I’m sure that 19 liters per hour number is only when it is running and it is a maximum number. I agree that having any kind of fuel leak is an issue to be dealt with immediately. I just want to point out that fuel injectors will only leak when there’s fuel pressure. They are pressurized while the engine is running and there is some residual pressure after it is turned off. That residual pressure would be released with just maybe an ounce of fuel (probably less).

 

[BSBB4Les]

If I understand the issue correctly, the problem is with the drainage design of this particular engine. I was struck by the hose that was installed in the video having a metal male insert that plugs into a corresponding female end on the intake. It seems Ford designed the drainage system for this engine like they have on other engines without thinking it through until it became apparent they uh, goofed. Even so, of over 521,000 Escapes and Bronco Sports, they have reported 54 with leaks that caused fires and 10 were seriously damaged. The NHTSA prompted Ford to issue the safety recall which Ford did. With the lack of advance preparation, Ford has shown a lackadaisical approach at best to remedy the situation. My dealers service advisor told me up until this month they were allotted 1 repair kit a month. This month they were given 4! I personally am not in a rush to have the service done. I can wait. Let them do enough to make it more of a routine job.

 

[sajohnson]

The injectors are already robust, like any other injector used on automobiles. This issue is that one could crack and leak, and there was not sufficient drainage away from a hot engine. It was determined that there is no reason to change injectors, as any injector could crack and leak..

If any injector can crack and leak, then shouldn't this be a potential issue with all mfrs and all models?

Needless to say, I'm not familiar with every recall and every TSB, but this is the first time I've heard of a problem like this.

My 2002 WRX (and many others) had a problem with fuel leaking onto passenger side cylinder head and exhaust manifold(!) but it had nothing to do with the injectors. It happened in cold ambient temps and was caused by the different expansion/contraction rates of the metal fuel line and rubber hose.

Are there other vehicles with recalls for leaking fuel injecctors?

 

[Meanderthal]

If any injector can crack and leak, then shouldn't this be a potential issue with all mfrs and all models?

Needless to say, I'm not familiar with every recall and every TSB, but this is the first time I've heard of a problem like this.

My 2002 WRX (and many others) had a problem with fuel leaking onto passenger side cylinder head and exhaust manifold(!) but it had nothing to do with the injectors. It happened in cold ambient temps and was caused by the different expansion/contraction rates of the metal fuel line and rubber hose.

Are there other vehicles with recalls for leaking fuel injecctors?

Again, the recall is not to solve any issue with the fuel injectors. The recall is about what happens to that fuel once it has leaked. Ford designed in a path for leaking fuel, if that ever happens. It turns out that the path they designed in on the 1.5L engine is too close to a component, or components, that are hot enough to ignite the fuel. I’m sure that the fuel is just draining differently than how it did in initial testing. A small design change or maybe even a difference in surface texture could lead to this kind of issue. Dealing with liquid flow over a surface is complicated. I don’t have the list of tests that an engine needs to pass to get into production, but I would bet that every manufacturer has one that looks at what happens to the fuel leaking from a faulty fuel injector.

 

[sajohnson]

Again, the recall is not to solve any issue with the fuel injectors. The recall is about what happens to that fuel once it has leaked. Ford designed in a path for leaking fuel, if that ever happens. It turns out that the path they designed in on the 1.5L engine is too close to a component, or components, that are hot enough to ignite the fuel. I’m sure that the fuel is just draining differently than how it did in initial testing. A small design change or maybe even a difference in surface texture could lead to this kind of issue. Dealing with liquid flow over a surface is complicated. I don’t have the list of tests that an engine needs to pass to get into production, but I would bet that every manufacturer has one that looks at what happens to the fuel leaking from a faulty fuel injector.

It makes sense that mfrs consider the various possible failure modes. It also stands to reason that:

"...every manufacturer has one [test] that looks at what happens to the fuel leaking from a faulty fuel injector."

Just a thought -- maybe the design of most engines is such that there is no need for a special, designated path/channel for leaking fuel to drain off? For example, many vehicles (including the BS of course) have transverse mounted inline engines. The intake is on one side of the cylinder head and the exhaust on the opposite side. Therefore it's highly unlikely that in the event of a leak, fuel would come into contact with the exhaust manifold. So no path for fuel is needed.

You wrote: "The recall is about what happens to that fuel once it has leaked."

That does seem to be the case. However, with any leak, normal procedure is to find the potential source of the leak and address it -- whether it's a valve, or a seal, or a connection, etc. In this case, that would be fuel injectors that are known to fail.

I've been working on and reading about cars for going on 50 years. I've never heard of fuel injectors cracking and leaking -- not to the extent that a recall is necessary anyway. I've also never owned or heard of another vehicle that is designed with a path for fuel to drain off in the event of a leak. Of course, just because I'm not aware of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

This issue just seems odd to me, that's all. I'm naturally curious so when I become aware what seems to be an unusual issue or problem I like to look into them -- and hopefully learn something.

It looks like the recall repair will work to safely divert fuel in the event of a leak.

 

[Bucko]

We are starting to once again question the engineers and testing that was performed to solve this issue. Since it passed the tests and was released as a TSB for repair, I'm fine with it.

I'd say we stop beating the dead horse.

 

[Mark S.]

However, with any leak, normal procedure is to find the potential source of the leak and address it -- whether it's a valve, or a seal, or a connection, etc. In this case, that would be fuel injectors that are known to fail.

This is true IF you have a fuel leak. That's not what this recall is for. A fuel leak requires immediate attention. Ford (under NHTSA oversight) has not issued a "stop drive" recommendation for this recall, which suggests it believes the risk of injector leaks to be small. The recall was prompted by field reports of 54 under-hood fires. Here's what Ford's investigation turned up (so far):

A complete accounting of all fifty-four (54) 1.5L under hood fire reports known to Ford includes: four (4) of them have had one confirmed cracked fuel injector determined from the fuel injector supplier tear-down analysis. Ford Engineering assessed the fifty (50) remaining reports, determining: approximately thirteen (13) others were likely caused by a leaking fuel injector (based upon customer reports and available vehicle information), three (3) involved previous fuel system related repairs which may have been mis-diagnosed and potentially involved a leaking fuel injector, one (1) was attributed to incomplete repair from a previous crash event, one (1) was attributed to arson, three (3) were related to potential electrical system concerns, five (5) were attributed to oil separator leaks, and twenty-four (24) are of an undetermined origin.

Do you think that's enough evidence to warrant fleet-wide replacement of fuel injectors? The investigation is ongoing, and it's entirely possible that Ford will discover a flaw with the fuel injectors currently in use requiring replacement. That's not currently the case.

I've been working on and reading about cars for going on 50 years. I've never heard of fuel injectors cracking and leaking -- not to the extent that a recall is necessary anyway.

And you still haven't. That's not what this recall is about.

I've also never owned or heard of another vehicle that is designed with a path for fuel to drain off in the event of a leak. Of course, just because I'm not aware of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Every car you've ever owned has at least one fuel drain tube. The fuel filler port includes a drain tube to port fuel spills to the ground in the event you overfill the tank. Spend some time on Google searching for "emergency fuel drain tube" and you'll find many examples.

It looks like the recall repair will work to safely divert fuel in the event of a leak.

Which is its only purpose.

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