Understanding the 2.0 PCV system.

Glamdring70

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What about using that vestigial mount on the strut tower cover? I always thought a lighting relay or extinguisher mount or something else belonged on it.

Ford Bronco Sport Understanding the 2.0 PCV system. 1685111334921_2
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gatornek

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What about using that vestigial mount on the strut tower cover? I always thought a lighting relay or extinguisher mount or something else belonged on it.

Ford Bronco Sport Understanding the 2.0 PCV system. 1685111334921_2
I feel the plastic won’t really secure the weight of the can, especially if I’m off-roading. Seems like the can would be knocking around a bit in that scenario.
But I do appreciate the insight! If anything I’ll model it and see if there’s something there.

there’s a few other good options for mounting. I have more pics. But I’ll provide a fuller update when I actually order everything I need.
 
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gatornek

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Just wanted to provide another update.

My goal was to setup a "dual valve" catchcan similar to the one I have in my Mustang. It's a fabulous concept that replaces the one pcv valve at the plate, making the plate just a constant open, and adds a valve to the front of the turbo so that during boost, the negative pressure from the turbo, will continue to draw out the pcv plate, and you never have to worry about contaminating your turbo and intercooler from expelling pcv gases out the valve cover. The problem with simply placing a catchan, inline, on the dirtyside plate is 3fold,

a. The OEM valve is not of high quality and is prone to leak.

b. Your adding extra resistance to an already suspect valve. The PCM depends on a strong vaccum at idle in order to run at its best performance. If you slow down that vaccum pressure, you will not be doing your engine any favors.

c. You end up pressurizing the can everytime you go into boost.

So my problem is this:

In order to make the "dual valve" concept work, you need two other pieces besides the catchan, hoses, and valves. You also need a replacement PCV plate, and a special silicone coupler to replace the one that attaches from your intake into your turbo. It looks like this:
Ecoboost Silicone Intake Couplers for Oil Catch Can - UPR Products

I had thought these radium pcv plates were universal on all duratec/ecoboost engines. Come to find out on the Bronco Sport (and the Maverick!), they are not.
PCV Baffle Plate, Ford EcoBoost, Duratec, Mazda MZR (radiumauto.com)

Also, for the couplers, I had always figured that the 2.0 had the same turbo as the 2.3 (honeywell). Come to find out, this is a Borg Warner K03. Getting these kinds of details is dicey, but from what I can tell, our turbo inlet is 2.5 inches, while the pre-sold couplers by UPR are 2.25.

So my only options are to gut the OEM valve on the OEM plate; and/or fab a coupler myself. Its definitely a project if I wanna do it. Lets see how determined I am.


Can anyone on this forum confirm turbo inlet diameter on our turbo?
 
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gatornek

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So this thread was created when I first purchased my BS BL, because I knew I instantly wanted to put a catchcan in a GDI car and I wanted to do it right. The JLT or JSC or whatever they wanna call themselves now, is not a well done can in my opinion, for reasons I've already highlighted. Boomba Racing also makes a plugnplay can for the Ford Maverick so Im sure it would also work for the BS BL. But it also has the same drawback of keeping the OEM check valve in place, and then pressurizing the can everytime you go into boost. Their can is much better qaulity material and build tho.

So I can confirm that the 2.0 block has changed since its 2020 and earlier predecessor. The PCV plate is different and the Radium plate will no longer work.

Ford Bronco Sport Understanding the 2.0 PCV system. IMG_4550


So my only option is to gut it. Not a big deal. Ordered one online for $50. And let me tell you, I can tell that the valve is heavy from the minimal airflow I get on suction. I felt it worse than the the old OEM plate. I can also tell you that the valve leaks from the tiny, tiny, seepage of air when blowing into it.

Here is the valve/plunger, and spring. The valve on my 2.3 was made completely out of ceramic. This one SEEMS to have a ceramic core with some sort of metal anodization that gives it some weight. It is much heavier than the valve on the old plate. I imagine that they started anodizing these valves to make them more durable from the thousands upon thousands of poundings it will take going back in forth in the chamber.
Ford Bronco Sport Understanding the 2.0 PCV system. IMG_4565

Ford Bronco Sport Understanding the 2.0 PCV system. IMG_4567


Lastly, I was able to confirm the turbo inlet OD, and I only did that buy finding the air intake pieceoff a wreck and measuring the coupler that would go into the turbo. So I had to sinkg another $50 into fact-finding, but well worth it, once I get my setup. The info online about our turbo, in particular, since they stopped making the Focus, is very minimal.

Ford Bronco Sport Understanding the 2.0 PCV system. IMG_4568



63mm aprox
Ford Bronco Sport Understanding the 2.0 PCV system. IMG_4572




I have all the info now to place the order for my bits. I will probably start a new thread for that, since this is more about a deep dive into the PCV system on the 2.0
 

Ksnau

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I deleted some stuff that wasn't really needed for this topic I tried to rewrite how I do the dual check valve setup so it's a little easier to read. Hopefully this works better for you.

So as far as the dual inlet catch can most cars already have that like on the broncos sport 2.0 That's that like 6 inch hose going from the top of the valve cover in the passenger side to the intake hose So we could save some time using that possibly, although I still can't figure out how that thing's supposed to disconnect. Also on 23. They didn't use one of the hoses on the intake pipe that they did on my 22. So if you have a 23 one of them's just caps you can easily attach a hose to that to the intake pipe that goes to a catch can for the second hose on the dual valve setup, so that might make it a little easier for people that have that setup.

I see what you're saying about leaving the PCV box in there restricting vacuum. It probably does to a degree, but I've had a couple of EcoBoost engines so far and I've never had a problem with it on them or other types of engines. You know if you want to make yours perfect you probably should do it. Totally cool. I just thought I'd add in my own experience only. I haven't had a problem with them having the PCV as well as the catch can and I just put another check valve in front of the catch can so it doesn't pressurize the catch can. I do want to test it though and see if I can pull my check valves out and see what the intake manifold vacuum is and then put them back on and see the difference.

Also, for this vehicle I know some of the videos tell you to take your intake manifold off to get to the PCV lines on the back of the intake manifold and the back of the block. You do not have to do that. I have a video out there somewhere that kind of describes this but you can get your hand back there and unhook the PCV line from the intake manifold and the back of the block without taking anything off. Also, from what I've seen on this one, it does seem to have a decent amount of blow by when I was able to pull the intake manifold off of my 22 badlands. I think at 8000 mi it had already built up a decent amount of film in the intake manifold and you could just start to see it on the back of the intake valve so it seems like it has a decent amount because that was only it like 8000 mi I think.

When you make your catch can for this one. What I usually do is I just buy the cheap eBay ones for like 20 bucks and I just make sure that they have that like bronze filter in them and I usually like to see some kind of plate in the middle and a hose coming from the inlet to the bottom of the catch can so it has to go down the hose up through the plate and filter. Sometimes I'll add steel wool or like green scrunchy material too and if you do it that way it might save you some money versus the name brand ones that are usually like 200 bucks.

So when you do that you just have to buy and cut the hose yourself and I always buy a check valve too I usually get these ones off eBay or Amazon. There's silver. They're like $7.99 before tax. I do that because even though there's a check valve in the PCV you don't want that oil catch can to get pressurized so you want to check valve before the catch can. So so you might want to think about doing that if you make your own catch can too. I know most catch cans usually come with a check valve before the oil catch can in the aftermarket ones, especially if it's for like a boosted vehicle. I used to see that on a lot of them when I was doing mustangs.

So you mentioned the dual valve setup so I thought I would mention how I do it because that's how I did it on my 14 escape. But I haven't done it on this broncos sport yet. I'm waiting to see how long it takes for build up to start in the intake pipe because I haven't seen any so far but I know that on my escape cuz I bought that one used it had it in the intake pipe the first time I pulled it off which was probably at my first oil change around 60,000 mi.

if you want that dual catch can set up. The way that I do it is do the normal setup where you have a line coming off the PCV valve from the back of the block to the oil catch can and then the other line going from the catch can to the intake manifold. But in between that you have a check valve that only allows vacuum to the catch can not boost pressure.

And then you run another line after the check valve but before the catch can to the intake pipe and you put another check valve in. That way when you take manifold is under boost and that first check valve is blocking any air. You still get the vacuum from the intake pipe which probably isn't nearly as much but it's still something .

It's kind of hard to explain in words, but there's tons of videos about it. It's not something I invented. I learned it from YouTube as well. Just make sure you get a reliable source of info and I would watch multiple videos.
 
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gatornek

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I've never had a problem with it. You know if you want to make yours perfect you probably should do it. Totally cool. I just thought I'd add in my own experience only. I haven't had a problem with them having the PCV as well as the catch can and I just put another check valve in front of the catch can so it doesn't pressurize the catch can.
how long have you been running a catchcan with an extra valve in front of the catchcan, in line? I can just about guarantee you that your idle vacuum is not as good as it should be. A weakened idle vacuum won’t reveal itself as a problem right away. It does so WAY down the line, if your vacuum idle isn’t doing what it’s supposed to be doing.

I would run the dipstick test if I were you. Idle your engine. PUll your dipstick. Hold your finger over the dipstick hole. If you don't feel a strong suction, that's not good. Or worse, you can actually see smoky vapor come out the dipstick hole. If you see that, I would tear down your catchcan setup immediately. I'm not saying its happening with you in particular, but if anyone ever notices smoky vapor come out the dipstick hole at idle, while running an aftermarket catchcan, there is an excellent chance that smoky vapor is being dropped into your intake tube, right in front of the turbo, and is caking your turbo compressor and your hotpipe and your IC.

I did this with my stock Badlands. The suction is decent. But when I do this on my Mustang, you can hear the vaccum pulling on the skin of my finger, before it even gets fully over the hole.


So I would definitely recommend a catch can but I know that's not what you want to talk about here.
Are you even reading along in this thread?:D The whole point of this thread was to compare my knowledge of the 2.3 pcv system here and build a proper catchcan.
 

Ksnau

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Yeah I've ran mine like this in many vehicles that have been N/A and boosted and never had an issue. I had a 2014 escape 2.0 that I ran like this for about 75,000k miles, it was at 133k miles IIRC when it got totaled by a red light runner and it never had issues. Well I did have to replace the turbo because the wastegate linkage did that stretching thing and it was losing boost But that's unrelated.

On my 14 I actually ran the dual setup where I had a line from the PCV valve and a line from the turbo intake pipe going to the catch can, which had two check valves and never noticed a change. Although I did that before my boost gauge was installed, so I didn't actually measure it. On my current bronco sport which is at about 6500 miles I haven't seen any oil build up in the intake tube to the turbo yet so I'm kind of experimenting seeing how long it will take to see signs before I connect it to the can, or just run a second can for that dual setup, it depends on how I'm feeling and what's easier at the time.

That 14 escape I got with 55k miles so it was already dirty so I've never done this with a brand new vehicle so it's interesting seeing the whole thing happen.

Actually had a 22 Badlands before this one for about 6 months that I sold with about 14,000 mi on it and I didn't put the catch can on right away and whenever I finally pulled off the intake manifold and started doing the catch can set up I want to say it like 6,000 mi so Probably right after my first oil change but I can't remember. I could actually already see a little bit of buildup on the backs of the intake valves, so it seems to happen pretty fast with these engines in my experience.

And yes I have checked and there is a lot of suction still. I guess the next step I'll need to pull out the check valves and see if the idle changes on my gauge.

And for your last comment I I thought that all this was a good reason to get one so I mentioned it.
 

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So I just did a test and took the oil catch can and the check valve out of the vacuum lines so it was just lines like normal and my boost gauge didn't show any change and I waited. Made sure the engine was up to full operating temp on both of them. Now the smallest point in the lines I guess would be the check valve but they're still 1/2 of an inch so they are decent size. I don't know if you thought I was running a lot snaller lines and that's why it would cause the drop in vacuum.

Also, I was trying to think about it in the abstract and the vacuum is coming from the pistons up and down and just cuz we're adding another line to the manifold. I don't think that should really affect the total vacuum of the engine. Whether the line becomes a restriction to the PCV or not, it might affect the PCV vacuum in the crankcase, but I would think that the total manifold vacuum would stay the same because it's not causing a leak and it's not like it's changing the cam timing so there's not like extra overlap like if you had a big cam which can lower vacuum. But if I missing something please let me know. It is something I'd never thought about before and it's pretty interesting topic.
 
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gatornek

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I was trying to think about it in the abstract and the vacuum is coming from the pistons up and down and just cuz we're adding another line to the manifold. I don't think that should really affect the total vacuum of the engine.
Please don't take this the wrong way, because I appreciate the engagement, but its very hard to follow your posts.

Google 'valve cracking pressure'. The pressure/vaccuum on one side of the valve will not be equal to the pressure/vaccum on the other side of the valve. Put two valves, in-line, serially, which is what you are describing and the vaccuum being drawn at the throttle body will NOT be the same as the vaccum being drawn out the PCV plate.

You also will not notice this on your analog gauge. The increments on vaccuum in the cranckase is way too small. Further, Ryour analog 'boost gauge' is measuring the pressure at the manifold AFTER the throttle body (I would assume even though I'm not sure what you used as a boost ref for it). This won't change no matter what you do to the PCV. What you want to measure is the vaccuum coming out the PCV plate. That is DIFFERENT.

Ford Bronco Sport Understanding the 2.0 PCV system. 1686596821979


If you feel confident and comfortable in your catchcan solution, that is all that matters. Like I said, as long as you don't see smoky vapors coming out your dipstick hole at idle, then you should be fine.
 
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Ksnau

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I do pretty much all my stuff off my phone with voice recognition so it gets a lot of errors and I'm not good with grammar writing anyways.

So I guess what I'm not following is at first you were saying that this could cause an issue with my idle vacuum at the manifold but now you're saying it's not that it's just the vacuum at the PCV valve. And I guess if the changes in vacuum are so minute, they won't even show up on my gauge. It doesn't seem like it's something that would matter.

Also with that valve cracking pressure, I'm not sure how much that applies at least for me because it's only for the very first instant of a valve opening and closing. And I mean sure that happens a lot on these where it's going from vacuum to boost, but it's for such a small amount of time doesn't seem like that's something we would want to measure and monitor anyways even if we could. It seems to me what we're really wanting to see is the equalization of pressure throughout the whole system which is still pretty instant. Because it's you know it's like water. It travels to the path of least resistance until it equalizes in the whole system. Whether it's a 1 inch wide hose or a 1/8 inch hose, it should still equalize and read the same and that seems to be. That's why we usually use. I mean I'm just thinking about a fox mustang that my brother had and the vacuum tree and it had all kinds of different line sizes and it was able to function okay so I guess I'm just not understanding how this would cause issues.

And yes, I monitor boost from the manifold after the throttle body because that's what the engine is actually seeing. My boost gauge references the off of the PCV line from the intake manifold before the check valve because it was after the check valve it would be useless once boost pressure hit and it wouldn't see anything but that's how mine is set up.
 
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Wanted to provide an update here.

I've kind of paused the catchcan install for now. I actually have most of the bits to put it together, but just haven't had the desire to finish it, and I had to examine why that was.

After almost 7 years of owning a 2.3 GDI turbo Mustang, I felt the catchcan was an essential need.

I've kind of TEMPORARILY backtracked on that for two reasons, and its pretty much the main two reasons why one installs a ctachcan in the first place.:

1) "Maintaining Octane levels". My BS isn't tuned, while my Mustang is. Essentially, its way more critical for my Mustang to maintain octane levels, than it is my BS. I've been able to completely tell that even though the engines are similar, my Mustang is a COMPLETELY different beast at WOT. Maybe if I ever end up tuning the BS, then definitely the can will go in. Just not yet.

2) "Keeping Valves clean". Meh. This was never really a reason why I installed a catchcan in the firt place. I feel fairly confident in a walnut blasting procedure to clean em up, if I ever decided it needed to be done.


So yeah.....holding off.........for now.
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