Potential Price Increases

[llinthicum2]

I'm curious, how will tariffs impact the price of Bronco Sport and other Ford vehicles manufactured in Mexico? I'm looking at purchasing a Bronco Sport and was wondering if I should buy sooner than later.

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[RushMan]

I'm curious, how will tariffs impact the price of Bronco Sport and other Ford vehicles manufactured in Mexico? I'm looking at purchasing a Bronco Sport and was wondering if I should buy sooner than later.

No one can say for certain, but the newly elected US President has said that he will add tariffs on new cars and parts imported from Mexico, which seems in conflict with his replacement of NAFTA in 2018.
it's acknowledged by some car salesman that the best time of year to buy a new car is December, especially the last week of the year, as that is when dealers are slow and may offer better negotiations. And dealers are anxious to get rid of the last year's cars in inventory.

 

[Major Kong]

I'm curious, how will tariffs impact the price of Bronco Sport and other Ford vehicles manufactured in Mexico? I'm looking at purchasing a Bronco Sport and was wondering if I should buy sooner than later.

wrestled with a similar question which somewhat parallels yours
sit on the fence or make a move
second vehicle is 21 years plus
pulled the trigger and picked up new vehicle to garage until needed

noticing

• https://usdebtclock.org/
• BRICS relationship with BIS
• New York Fed relationship with BRICS
• project mBridge

big players entering the arena
you will not be told

 

[Dude]

noticing

BRICS relationship with BIS
New York Fed relationship with BRICS
project mBridge

big players entering the arena
you will not be told

I think you just told us !

Also …
BRICS Bridge

 

[Aviator]

I’ve been a Ford guy for a long time. I have owned at least 10 ford products in my lifetime.
To be honest, if I knew that my BL was 100% built in Mexico I would not have bought it.
I have owned non USA vehicles but I bought them knowing.
I say Bring back manufacturing, assembling of Ford’s for the US market back to US.
I have owned ford products over seas. They are built and manufactured in that host country.

 

[Mark S.]

I say Bring back manufacturing, assembling of Ford’s for the US market back to US.

How much more would you be willing to pay for your car to have it built here in the U.S.?

 

[llinthicum2]

Does Ford even have a factory in the U.S. where production could be moved even if they wanted to?

 

[Bucko]

I’ve been a Ford guy for a long time. I have owned at least 10 ford products in my lifetime.
To be honest, if I knew that my BL was 100% built in Mexico I would not have bought it.
I have owned non USA vehicles but I bought them knowing.
I say Bring back manufacturing, assembling of Ford’s for the US market back to US.
I have owned ford products over seas. They are built and manufactured in that host country.

If that happens, expect to pay a whole lot more for a vehicle. Labor costs in the U.S. is ridiculous. This is why manufacturers set up plants outside of the U.S.

 

[BourbonRunner]

If that happens, expect to pay a whole lot more for a vehicle. Labor costs in the U.S. is ridiculous. This is why manufacturers set up plants outside of the U.S.

Certainly is, but the byzantine governmental regulations from all angles here do not exist overseas, especially in China. That's a massive chunk of the landed cost that gets ignored.

I'm going to throw another perspective on tariffs to this:

Tariffs are a protectionist policy, certainly. They also can and have encouraged the exporting country to increase imports to balance out trade deficits.

IE: In the first Trump admin, there were various tariffs thrown at China. The net result was China started importing American grown rice to have them reduced/removed. Granted, it hasn't eliminated the Sino-American trade deficit entirely but it has the potential to do so if allowed to occur.

Edit:

It was reported today that the EU wants to heavily import American natural gas to avoid potential future tariffs.

Do with that information what you will.

 

[Mark S.]

he net result was China started importing American grown rice to have them reduced/removed.

I don't believe this is accurate. Excerpt:

Analysis published by Chad Bown of the Peterson Institute for International Economics found that if there was no trade war initiated by Trump and if the US share of the Chinese market had just stayed consistent, then US exports to China would have been $119 billion bigger than what was actually recorded during Trump's administration during 2018 to 2021. Additionally, the trade war had incurred further costs of $30 billion in taxpayers funds that Trump used to subsidise the country's farmers to compensate for their lost sales to China from 2018 to 2020. Bown concluded that Trump's trade policies were not worth it for US exporters and that they would have likely have been better off without Trump's trade war.

No interaction between countries that includes the word "war" is good for either side--everyone gets hurt. Instead of wailing about job losses to supposed cheap Chinese labor--usually low-paying drudge work no one really wants to do anyway--we should be looking for ways to increase the numbers of BETTER jobs here in the U.S. while doing everything possible to prevent intellectual property theft. We already have a tremendous advantage when it comes to the tech sector, and we should do everything possible to protect that advantage. One way we could do that is creating more jobs in the IT security sector.

 

[RSH]

I'm curious, how will tariffs impact the price of Bronco Sport and other Ford vehicles manufactured in Mexico? I'm looking at purchasing a Bronco Sport and was wondering if I should buy sooner than later.

The presidency has not changed yet.
If you are already looking at purchasing, I would be more interested in the possible deal you can work than worry about a tariff at this time.

 

[BourbonRunner]

I don't believe this is accurate. Excerpt:

Respectfully Mark, Wikipedia is about the last source I'd refer to when Trump is involved. The bias of their editing team against him is well documented.

That being said, a quick google search provided this link from Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/article/business/united-states-makes-first-ever-rice-sale-to-china-trade-group-idUSKCN1TY2YK/

It wasn't much but it is worth noting considering China is far and away the world's largest producer of rice.

No interaction between countries that includes the word "war" is good for either side--everyone gets hurt. Instead of wailing about job losses to supposed cheap Chinese labor--usually low-paying drudge work no one really wants to do anyway--we should be looking for ways to increase the numbers of BETTER jobs here in the U.S. while doing everything possible to prevent intellectual property theft. We already have a tremendous advantage when it comes to the tech sector, and we should do everything possible to protect that advantage. One way we could do that is creating more jobs in the IT security sector.

I both agree and disagree in part with your statement.

Trade wars are awful for all involved, yes. They are the last resort of either party being a dishonest broker and the creation of trade deficits. In the case of China they have never been an honest broker and have dumped their cheap, slave labor produced goods around the world and most certainly in the US. That is a direct result of pathetic trade policy in the US that does not prioritize American workers and manufacturing, coupled to extremely high costs of operation comparatively.

That cost of operation is part due to labor costs and part due to increasingly byzantine government regulations. (The craziest story about that I've heard recently is about SpaceX having to capture seals and play sonic booms to them to get permits to launch in California).

Your statement about jobs that nobody wants... Look, Mark, not everyone is an IT guy. There are plenty of folks that are content to working in the trades, working on assembly lines, farming, delivery, etc. All work, regardless of skill and output is honorable.

Demeaning those jobs is insulting and beneath you.

 

[Mark S.]

Wikipedia is about the last source I'd refer to when Trump is involved. The bias of their editing team against him is well documented.

Did you read the article? First of all, Wikipedia is about the only site that provides sources for everything it publishes as a statement of fact. Please look over the article I linked to and review the sources. I'm happy to debate the source material, but I think it's a form of ad hominem argument to say we should ignore a claim simply because the source is Wikipedia.

Second, the article I linked to is not pro-Trump. Indeed, it makes very clear that Trump's trade actions with China were a colossal failure. If this article is the result of Trump's editing team's best effort then either they are not very effective, or the situation is far worse than described in the article.

Your statement about jobs that nobody wants... Look, Mark, not everyone is an IT guy. There are plenty of folks that are content to working in the trades, working on assembly lines, farming, delivery, etc. All work, regardless of skill and output is honorable.

Demeaning those jobs is insulting and beneath you.

??? I made no value judgements about the people, only about the jobs. America, in large part, turns a blind eye (more's the pity) to illegal immigration because it brings in labor for jobs no one else wants to do, mainly the kind of labor that requires little or no education or skill training. It's not demeaning to the people willing to do those jobs to be honest about their (the jobs, not the people) nature.

A worker losing their job to cheaper labor is really no different than one losing their job to technology--something that's been occurring for centuries. Yes, there is a challenging transition period; workers must acquire new skills and adapt. Despite the challenges, however, throughout history technological development has led to the creation of more jobs than it has replaced, often in completely new industries. Further, having a job and earning income has lifted literally hundreds of millions of Chinese people out of abject poverty while at the same reducing their reliance on a government/political party to provide for them--something I view as very beneficial to the U.S. I view shifting low-paying, labor-intensive jobs to China as a win-win. Both Chinese and U.S. citizens stand to gain, but not if we allow our governments to convince us it's a war instead of an opportunity.

 

[BourbonRunner]

Did you read the article? First of all, Wikipedia is about the only site that provides sources for everything it publishes as a statement of fact. Please look over the article I linked to and review the sources. I'm happy to debate the source material, but I think it's a form of ad hominem argument to say we should ignore a claim simply because the source is Wikipedia.

Second, the article I linked to is not pro-Trump. Indeed, it makes very clear that Trump's trade actions with China were a colossal failure. If this article is the result of Trump's editing team's best effort then either they are not very effective, or the situation is far worse than described in the article.

Mark, I really was not trying to get into a pissing match with you over the veracity of Wikipedia sources. Prior to going down this rabbit hole, my original point above was that in response to the tariff threat in his first admin, the Chinese imported rice from the US.

The Reuters article I linked is a reliable source that backs that up that statement. I'm not trying to convince you he's good or bad, either, I'm just stating that it happened.


With regards to Wikipedia: is not allowed by many universities as a source. See below.

From Google:

Secondarily, its bias against Trump and the right side of the aisle is well known and has been well established. Therefore it is fair to say that anything they report in their entries related to him or his party ought to be suspect and should be researched further. I'd recommend you look at what the Manhattan Institute came back with after analyzing Trump and other right wing articles. It is interesting to say the least.

??? I made no value judgements about the people, only about the jobs. America, in large part, turns a blind eye (more's the pity) to illegal immigration because it brings in labor for jobs no one else wants to do, mainly the kind of labor that requires little or no education or skill training. It's not demeaning to the people willing to do those jobs to be honest about their (the jobs, not the people) nature.

You said "better jobs," and you also refer to it as "drudge work nobody wants to do, anyway." as a former blue collar worker who made the jump to the white collar, I found it highly offensive and frankly elitist.

That aside, what defines "better jobs" to you? Is it that the guy who flies a desk in a cube farm have a "better job" than the guy driving the honey pot truck pumping out portapots?

In my past career, I hired hundreds of people over the years from all walks of life into entry level, low skill positions that were more than happy just to have a job. Some would excel, learn valuable skills and move up, and some would be content and stay in that entry position for 20 years.

It is also a bit chicken and egg. Without a source of cheap labor via illegal immigration, those jobs would be available for Americans to take. Furthermore, if it wasn't for endless government policies and regulations getting in the way, it would be more advantageous to businesses to hire Americans as opposed hiring illegals either directly or by running 1099 schemes.

A worker losing their job to cheaper labor is really no different than one losing their job to technology--something that's been occurring for centuries. Yes, there is a challenging transition period; workers must acquire new skills and adapt. Despite the challenges, however, throughout history technological development has led to the creation of more jobs than it has replaced, often in completely new industries.

On this we agree completely.

In an ideal world, what you wrote above would happen. In our world politicians get their points, go back to their ivory towers and don't have to deal with the actual fallout of their policies, in the case that comes to mind first ending coal production. But the ones in Washington will never feel the consequences of their policies unless they lose an election, and even then they'll have a golden parachute. Meanwhile the coal miner loses everything, has no opportunity and becomes a heroin addict and the town dies.

The major issue here is you're conflating the loss of jobs through the evolution of technology with the loss of jobs to offshoring because the cost of production is less expensive. These are not the same.

Further, having a job and earning income has lifted literally hundreds of millions of Chinese people out of abject poverty while at the same reducing their reliance on a government/political party to provide for them--something I view as very beneficial to the U.S. I view shifting low-paying, labor-intensive jobs to China as a win-win. Both Chinese and U.S. citizens stand to gain, but not if we allow our governments to convince us it's a war instead of an opportunity.

Has it really though?

If anything the massive investment of western capital into China has forestalled the eventual collapse of the top heavy CCP while providing it funding to become a belligerent on the world stage in economic, diplomatic and military arenas.

To your point about reliance on the govt, I doubt the folks working at Foxconn sites with nets around the buildings to prevent suicides would agree that it's better than being a peasant. Granted, they have to be selected by the party to get the job in the first place so it's not like they have much of choice. They're really only a half a step above slaves.

Last point: I'm going to be brutally honest here:

I care about American citizens first and foremost and our allies thereafter. China is not an ally and its foolish to think otherwise. Chinese being lifted out of poverty is about as important to me as what my dog leaves in little piles on the grass. And I'm not sorry about it at all.

We need to look at what our government has allowed to be done to countless towns across the country by offshoring manufacturing jobs. And then we need to have the tough conversations on how to fix it.

 

[Mark S.]

Mark, I really was not trying to get into a pissing match with you over the veracity of Wikipedia sources.

This discussion has gotten pretty far afield from the topic. I moved my response to a new post in the off-topic area.

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