Ford Battery Recall - #25S02

[Colonel Angus]

Such a hassle. I'll tell you if my battery goes dead under warranty I'm off to Walmart for a $150 Everstart AGM battery and done. Screw going through Ford and all that aggravation back and forth.
Not worth it to me. Life's too short. The only trip I'd make to the dealer would be to dump the bad battery in their parking lot.

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[BS FE 21]

If I hadn't gotten the recall notice in January I would have thought old - tired battery. Four year battery life isn't great but these days it's average. I've owned this FE for a couple years. In this case it was pretty sudden loss of battery. I knew I was going to replace the battery but decided to call my Ford dealer to see what they might do. This was a Saturday. The service guy was decent and knew about the recall. He gave me the company line about awaiting instructions. Not much point in a recall if there is no remedy. The bad battery issue has been percolating for years. The parts excuse is pretty lame. I could pay big bucks to have them check it out the following week. I didn't want to waste time or money. I bought a new battery and installed. If you haven't done a battery on a Bronco Sport you are in for a little treat. I should have taken more care with the old battery numbers but I was in a hurry to please my wife and did a quick recycle. With me, if I don't recycle quickly the battery is libel to linger in the garage for years.

Off subject a little. This reminds me of the RDU service bulletin. I talked to my dealer about the bulletin and possible catastrophic failure of RDU that could be prevented. They would do nothing unless/until there was a catastrophic failure. I checked things out and changed the oil to be safe. Still under warranty at that time.

We love our Bronco Sport. Haven't had any real problems and I smile whenever I drive it. The four cylinder has good getup and go. I think Ford is acting like all the manufacturers these days and the car is pretty much disposable. Very quickly the cost of fixing or working on anything can become more expensive than the car is worth. I didn't price out the dealer charge for trouble shooting and changing the battery. Probably over $500. Just an old guy reminiscing about simpler times.

 

[BS FE 21]

If you have Start/Stop disabled it wouldn't stop it in stop and go traffic so what's the difference?

The failure usually happens when the engine shuts down at stops and tries to restart. Since my start/stop is disabled the situation should not occur. The car is running on the alternator when the engine is running. The battery could go bad and the car could keep running. I'm definitely no expert, just guessing that is the way it would work.

 

[wireman]

If I hadn't gotten the recall notice in January I would have thought old - tired battery. Four year battery life isn't great but these days it's average. I've owned this FE for a couple years. In this case it was pretty sudden loss of battery. I knew I was going to replace the battery but decided to call my Ford dealer to see what they might do. This was a Saturday. The service guy was decent and knew about the recall. He gave me the company line about awaiting instructions. Not much point in a recall if there is no remedy. The bad battery issue has been percolating for years. The parts excuse is pretty lame. I could pay big bucks to have them check it out the following week. I didn't want to waste time or money. I bought a new battery and installed. If you haven't done a battery on a Bronco Sport you are in for a little treat. I should have taken more care with the old battery numbers but I was in a hurry to please my wife and did a quick recycle. With me, if I don't recycle quickly the battery is libel to linger in the garage for years.

Off subject a little. This reminds me of the RDU service bulletin. I talked to my dealer about the bulletin and possible catastrophic failure of RDU that could be prevented. They would do nothing unless/until there was a catastrophic failure. I checked things out and changed the oil to be safe. Still under warranty at that time.

We love our Bronco Sport. Haven't had any real problems and I smile whenever I drive it. The four cylinder has good getup and go. I think Ford is acting like all the manufacturers these days and the car is pretty much disposable. Very quickly the cost of fixing or working on anything can become more expensive than the car is worth. I didn't price out the dealer charge for trouble shooting and changing the battery. Probably over $500. Just an old guy reminiscing about simpler times.

10-4 Ford, just send me a check for $300, I'll worry about my own battery if you can't figure this out in a timely manner. Original EFB was replaced under warranty with an AGM 16 months ago.

That was toast so I bought my own Walmart AGM with free 4 year replacement. $212.00 and installed it myself 2 weeks ago.

Ford said the AGM replacement isn't under warranty. I'll sleep better anyway with the Everstart.

Yea the good old days of points & a condenser, rebuilding the carb, and easy access to the engine bay are sadly gone.

 

[BS FE 21]

10-4 Ford, just send me a check for $300, I'll worry about my own battery if you can't figure this out in a timely manner. Original EFB was replaced under warranty with an AGM 16 months ago.

That was toast so I bought my own Walmart AGM with free 4 year replacement. $212.00 and installed it myself 2 weeks ago.

Ford said the AGM replacement isn't under warranty. I'll sleep better anyway with the Everstart.

Yea the good old days of points & a condenser, rebuilding the carb, and easy access to the engine bay are sadly gone.

I got the 4 year Everstart battery too.

 

[wireman]

Yup, full 4 year replacement, not prorated. Doesn't get much better than that.

 

[Dude]

The failure usually happens when the engine shuts down at stops and tries to restart. Since my start/stop is disabled the situation should not occur. The car is running on the alternator when the engine is running. The battery could go bad and the car could keep running. I'm definitely no expert, just guessing that is the way it would work.

Guesses not always are correct, reason for my response is because someone reading your post could come away with incorrect assumptions which they shouldn’t since you are just providing your opinions.

1. The failure usually happens when the engine shuts down at stops and tries to restart. Since my start/stop is disabled the situation should not occur.

You did say “should not occur” so are partially correct however Recall 25S02 states: “THE 12-VOLT BATTERY MAY EXPERIENCE INTERNAL WELD AND OR CAST-ON-STRAP FAILURES, WHICH COULD LEAD TO A SUDDEN BATTERY DEGRADATION WHILE DRIVING.”

What this means is the battery can fail suddenly. As if the battery were an open circuit or at least in a state of high resistance if one of those failures occurs

It does not matter if you were moving or stopped with the engine running or the engine off, it does not matter if you have auto stop / start enabled or not

If the failure occurs the vehicle can shut off or remain shut off. The alternator will likely not keep the engine running and likely not keep the electrical power flowing on its own in those type of battery failure conditions. For proof of that, read the reports of what owners stated. Don’t take my word for it, look at the reported facts.

2. The car is running on the alternator when the engine is running. The battery could go bad and the car could keep running.

That is incorrect for the battery failure conditions listed in Recall 25S02 as I stated above.

 

[BS FE 21]

Guesses not always are correct, reason for my response is because someone reading your post could come away with incorrect assumptions which they shouldn’t since you are just providing your opinions.

1. The failure usually happens when the engine shuts down at stops and tries to restart. Since my start/stop is disabled the situation should not occur.

You did say “should not occur” so are partially correct however Recall 25S02 states: “THE 12-VOLT BATTERY MAY EXPERIENCE INTERNAL WELD AND OR CAST-ON-STRAP FAILURES, WHICH COULD LEAD TO A SUDDEN BATTERY DEGRADATION WHILE DRIVING.”

What this means is the battery can fail suddenly. As if the battery were an open circuit or at least in a state of high resistance if one of those failures occurs

It does not matter if you were moving or stopped with the engine running or the engine off, it does not matter if you have auto stop / start enabled or not

If the failure occurs the vehicle can shut off or remain shut off. The alternator will likely not keep the engine running and likely not keep the electrical power flowing on its own in those type of battery failure conditions. For proof of that, read the reports of what owners stated. Don’t take my word for it, look at the reported facts.

2. The car is running on the alternator when the engine is running. The battery could go bad and the car could keep running.

That is incorrect for the battery failure conditions listed in Recall 25S02 as I stated above.

Has anyone on this forum stated that the car just shut down while they were cruising down the interstate and further connected this complete shutdown to the battery? Possible if the battery shorts out to a low state of resistance not a high state of resistance. A car can shut down due to charging system issues with a good battery. The battery is fine, the alternator is bad. I've seen cars where you could unhook the battery and the car kept running fine. You jump start a low,bad battery and once the engine is running you are good to go. Just saying that a car can run fine once started with a low battery. Is this battery failure always a complete catastrophic shorting out of the battery or can it be a gradual bad connection due to a weld breaking down?

The complete catastrophic shorting out of the battery is the worst possible thing that the battery could do during this failure. It's not necessarily the only thing. Your guess is not any better than mine. If a battery is in a "high state of resistance" the battery will not draw current and the charging system can supply the power to keep running. If a battery shorts out, a low state of resistance, then it could burn up the charging system. Which is it?

 

[Dude]

I am only referring to failure conditions described in Recall 25S02 (not general ways that a battery can fail). Think of the failed battery for the scenarios described in recall 25S02 as having very high internal resistance that can be considered as approaching an open circuit condition - the battery is no longer providing output or has lost one of more of its 6 cells (each of the 6 cells nominally is providing 2+ volts). It’s no longer acting as a battery under this failed condition. And the failure is very sudden.

 

[Mark S.]

Has anyone on this forum stated that the car just shut down while they were cruising down the interstate and further connected this complete shutdown to the battery?

IIRC, not on the interstate, but driving through town. I believe the owner said the engine quit and the car rolled into an intersection.

I was in the once-started-good-to-go crowd until I realized these newer cars very tightly control alternator output in the interest of fuel economy. In the olden days (ha) the alternator output whatever amps the battery demanded to keep it fully charged. A simple voltage regulator was the only component that controlled alternator output. That's not the case anymore. The battery management system now sits somewhere in the circuit, and it has control over alternator output.

If the BMS is malfunctioning at the time your battery shorts out it could set your alternator output too low to power the fuel injection and ignition system. Poof, your engine shuts down and you're stranded.

 

[BS FE 21]

IIRC, not on the interstate, but driving through town. I believe the owner said the engine quit and the car rolled into an intersection.

I was in the once-started-good-to-go crowd until I realized these newer cars very tightly control alternator output in the interest of fuel economy. In the olden days (ha) the alternator output whatever amps the battery demanded to keep it fully charged. A simple voltage regulator was the only component that controlled alternator output. That's not the case anymore. The battery management system now sits somewhere in the circuit, and it has control over alternator output.

If the BMS is malfunctioning at the time your battery shorts out it could set your alternator output too low to power the fuel injection and ignition system. Poof, your engine shuts down and you're stranded.

I agree. If the battery shorts it will take the car out. That is the worst possibility with the battery defect. I don't think it is the only possibility. The recall mentions strap and weld defects. If a weld breaks will that cause a short or just cause the battery to weaken? My battery suddenly would not start the car and would not charge. I could jump start and run. If the stop/start had been in use during my wife's last drive I'm pretty sure it would have left her stranded at a stop light. Unless and until the battery actually shorts out I don't know what kind of test you could run to predict the battery will short out. If the battery is already shorted you can prove that. Doubt you can run a test to show an eminent structural failure. They are not going to disassemble the battery to see what's going on inside. Ford knows which cars have this battery. It's not up to me to verify or do anything else. It looks to me like Ford has been ordered to replace the batteries. The reason they must replace is because the battery could fail and cause a wreck. If they can put it off long enough nobody being covered will still be under warranty and they can try to use that as an excuse to drag it out even further.

 

[BS FE 21]

I am only referring to failure conditions described in Recall 25S02 (not general ways that a battery can fail). Think of the failed battery for the scenarios described in recall 25S02 as having very high internal resistance that can be considered as approaching an open circuit condition - the battery is no longer providing output or has lost one of more of its 6 cells (each of the 6 cells nominally is providing 2+ volts). It’s no longer acting as a battery under this failed condition. And the failure is very sudden.

As in the case of my car. Wife drives it with no problems and parks in the driveway. The next day the battery will not start the car and the battery will not charge. If she had been using start/stop very well could have been stranded in traffic anytime she stopped the car. I know this is not the moving car scenario but it is still a sudden failure of the battery. If a weld or strap were not fully disconnected but making a bad connection could this cause the battery to appear weak and possibly low voltage ? I would have considered mine a typical tired battery if not for the recall notice.


I think I understand what you are saying and the difference between a shorted battery and a broken weld causing a cell to quit. Is it even possible for a battery to short internally ? I don't know much about car battery construction. I'm guessing the straps are the electrical connections between the cells. A strap or weld fails and there is a broken connection. If the cells are simply strapped together in series then a strap separation means a totally dead battery. The only question at that point is if the alternator can keep the car running and at what point is the alternator running too slow to keep up.

Another question is what kind of test could Ford run to predict a weld or strap failure. The way I read the recall it says the battery could fail in a catastrophic manor and Ford needs to replace the battery. I don't think the recall says the catastrophic failure has to occur before the battery can be replaced.

 

[Dude]

Have a look at Post #6 which answers some of your questions

it ends with this statement: “COS failures are critical because they disrupt the electrical connection between cells, rendering the battery inoperable.”

There is not a test I’ve seen for the condition described in Recall 25S02. Ford and I’m sure the battery manufacturer have cut open a selected set of batteries - that is how Ford determined what the issue was (at least for the issue described in Recall 25S02)

From everything you said about about your Bronco Sport, it seems to be your battery was just at the normal end of its lifecycle. But if your battery is the battery part # and supplied by the Chinese manufacturer, everything I read is you will get a new AGM Battery or be reimbursed for an AGM Battery (once the dust settles on Recall 25S02).

Have to wait and see what the final wording is for Recall 25S02. If it were me I would have gone out and purchased a good quality, with long warranty AGM Battery then taken pics of the OE Battery for proof and saved the receipt for the replacement battery.

 

[BS FE 21]

I understand some saying I don't deserve a new battery. If my battery was still in good working order then would I deserve a new battery? My battery was in good working order when the recall was issued. If Ford can keep putting off the recall long enough, pretending they have a mystery that can't be solved, everyone will be in my position.

 

[Dude]

I understand some saying I don't deserve a new battery. If my battery was still in good working order then would I deserve a new battery? My battery was in good working order when the recall was issued. If Ford can keep putting off the recall long enough, pretending they have a mystery that can't be solved, everyone will be in my position.

Not sure anyone said that … I’ve said several times and others did as well if your battery is covered by Recall 25S02, vehicle is the correct year and part # (Chinese made EFB), you get a new AGM Battery - doesn’t matter if your OE Battery has failed or is working perfectly you get a new AGM.

If your battery is not one that will be covered by Recall 25S02 I don’t think you would qualify under that recall and no one else would either if not applicable to 25S02.

Sorry for the confusion

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