Emergency starts!

Outback Texan

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I just picked up one of these for those DEAD BATTERY events. It can start up to a 7.5 liter gas engine and up to a 5.0 litre Diesel engine!

Ford Bronco Sport Emergency starts! Screenshot 2022-05-16 at 10.39.37 PM
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ScareCrow

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I just picked up one of these for those DEAD BATTERY events. It can start up to a 7.5 liter gas engine and up to a 5.0 litre Diesel engine!

Ford Bronco Sport Emergency starts! Screenshot 2022-05-16 at 10.39.37 PM
These things are the greatest thing since sliced bread, I've jump 3 cars for people this winter.

Keep it in the vehicle and charge it up every 3 months just in case.

I've only had to use it for my mower this spring, forgot to charge the mower battery before storage, sure beat's dragging out the cables.
 

MJE

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Is this one kinda the one to get? I keep looking at these every year as they seem like the ideal jump start solution. No cables, no worrying about hook ups. No waiting for AAA when the weather is bad & absolutely everybody needs a boost. Just use it & go. For yourself or anybody that asks if you have a set of cables to help them out. I’m assuming they can start any vehicle even one that’s deader than dead.
 

Osco

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Is this one kinda the one to get? I’m assuming they can start any vehicle even one that’s deader than dead.
These things are great but no not every dead car can be started.
When we hook up with cables for a jump sometimes we have to wait a bit while the running vehicle put a little juice in the dead car.
I can’t count the times the first attempt was a no go.
But the ease of use looks to be a bonus in itself.
 
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Meanderthal

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They are a great thing, as long as you keep them charged. One of those things that should be in your reminders list on your phone/computer to pop-up so that you do them on a schedule. They don't discharge as fast as older style batteries when just sitting around but they still need to be charged every now and then. Imagine you have confidence because you have it and then end up in a situation where it isn't charged. At that point you might as well throw it away. You'll be just as prepared as someone without jumper cables.

All that being said, I haven't carried jumper cables or one of these items in decades. I have not been so far off in the wilderness that I would worry about getting help though. It is nice to be prepared and self sufficient and also be able to help others but I just haven't had those needs in a long time.
 


Major Kong

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They are a great thing, as long as you keep them charged. One of those things that should be in your reminders list on your phone/computer to pop-up so that you do them on a schedule. They don't discharge as fast as older style batteries when just sitting around but they still need to be charged every now and then. Imagine you have confidence because you have it and then end up in a situation where it isn't charged. At that point you might as well throw it away. You'll be just as prepared as someone without jumper cables.
The same can be said of spare tires
Whadaya mean the spare is flat?
 
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Outback Texan

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OP here... I was told (via online chat) by NOCO that the battery held 70% of its charge for a year. They recommend charging 2-3 times a year to top it off. They also recommended fully draining the battery once a year.
 

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Great info Major Kong. Thanks for posting that!
 

Meanderthal

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https://northeastbattery.com/prolong-lithium-battery-life/

Ford Bronco Sport Emergency starts! 1652796671366


From the linked article
The 30 charges seems to be the key to resolve the conflicting statements
I have heard from multiple sources that Lithium based batteries should never be fully discharged. I still think that the information posted is in conflict. Most sources I have seen say that Lithium batteries should be kept between 40% and 80% charge for the longest life. Allowing it to completely drain is very very bad for the battery, charging it to 100% and holding it there is just kind of bad. The 40-80% rule is just for maximizing battery life. I try to use that range for my cell phone.
 


Barry S.

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I just picked up one of these for those DEAD BATTERY events. It can start up to a 7.5 liter gas engine and up to a 5.0 litre Diesel engine!

Ford Bronco Sport Emergency starts! Screenshot 2022-05-16 at 10.39.37 PM
I also just got one. Haven't had the need to use it yet, for myself or anyone else... but it's reassuring to know it's nestled in the back. Also have a rechargeable air pump.
 

Major Kong

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I have heard from multiple sources that Lithium based batteries should never be fully discharged. I still think that the information posted is in conflict. Most sources I have seen say that Lithium batteries should be kept between 40% and 80% charge for the longest life. Allowing it to completely drain is very very bad for the battery, charging it to 100% and holding it there is just kind of bad. The 40-80% rule is just for maximizing battery life. I try to use that range for my cell phone.
I'll agree with your statement
However component properties of lithium batteries is out of my wheelhouse
The deep cycle 12v I use for a solar back up generator say no less than 50%
Inverter auto cut-out engages at 50%
pulling those batteries below that threshold is the death knell
 

Meanderthal

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I'll agree with your statement
However component properties of lithium batteries is out of my wheelhouse
The deep cycle 12v I use for a solar back up generator say no less than 50%
Inverter auto cut-out engages at 50%
pulling those batteries below that threshold is the death knell
I think those deep cycles are lead acid. I think that is pretty true of all lead acid batteries, you don’t want them to drop below 50% pretty much ever. That will junk them in just a few cycles.
 

sajohnson

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I'll agree with your statement
However component properties of lithium batteries is out of my wheelhouse
The deep cycle 12v I use for a solar back up generator say no less than 50%
Inverter auto cut-out engages at 50%
pulling those batteries below that threshold is the death knell
Deep cycle lead-acid batteries (like golf cart/GC batteries) have different requirements from lithium. For lead-acid, 50% SOC (state of charge) is the commonly accepted low limit. However, that does not mean a lead-acid battery will be an unusable paperweight if it drops below 50% SOC. 50% is just a point on a graph:

Ford Bronco Sport Emergency starts! 1653334711854


The numbers will vary some, that graph gives a rough idea. You can see that you can discharge a lead-acid battery 70-80% (20-30% SOC) and it will still give roughly 500 cycles -- but if you can hold it to 50% it will last for about 1,000 cycles.

Clearly it's best to keep the depth of the discharges to a minimum -- but that often only works on paper, because you need a certain amount of power in actual use.

It's true that lithium (usually LiFeP04) batteries have advantages. We replaced the GC batteries in our RV with lithium, but they are not the Holy Grail of battery technology. One issue is operating temperature range. They do not like cold temps, and in fact, the BMS (battery management system) will shut them down at ~32*F. Unfortunately, many/most jump starts happen when it's cold. D'OH!!

So that means that in order to get the best (or any) performance from a jump starter, it must be kept warm -- not left in a cold car, which of course is where people keep them. The only way I can think to do that is to carry the device with you everywhere -- work, home, etc. -- to keep it from getting too cold. Then, when in the car, place it under a heat vent.

Not exactly ideal.

CR tested lithium jump starters. Their typical objective testing showed the cold weather issue and (IIRC) there were only 1 or 2 that were recommended.

Heavy gauge jumper cables are still a very good option.
 
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sajohnson

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I have heard from multiple sources that Lithium based batteries should never be fully discharged. I still think that the information posted is in conflict. Most sources I have seen say that Lithium batteries should be kept between 40% and 80% charge for the longest life. Allowing it to completely drain is very very bad for the battery, charging it to 100% and holding it there is just kind of bad. The 40-80% rule is just for maximizing battery life. I try to use that range for my cell phone.
That's true, but it applies to 'raw' lithium cells. You can purchase raw cells and build your own lithium battery cheaper than a "pre-packaged" one, but in either case, they must have a BMS (battery management system) to protect the cells from overcharge; excessive discharge; high charge voltage; excessive charge/discharge current; and temperature extremes.

The BMS should prevent the SOC from reaching a true/actual 0% or 100%. That's in the mfr's best interest, because they have to warranty the batteries -- in our case for 'life', which is considered to be a minimum of 3,000 cycles -- while still maintaining at least 80% of the original Ah (amp-hour) capacity.

Mfrs typically don't give the actual SOC levels the BMS shuts off at, but as long as the battery capacity (in Ah or watts) and service life is as claimed it doesn't really matter. Still, just out of curiosity it would be interesting to know the actual (full) capacity of the cells. Our batteries are rated 105Ah @ 12.8V, but I'd guess they may actually be (say) 125Ah with an unused 10Ah at either extreme.

Bottom line, these devices are most likely well protected. The mfr knows that most people will either -- a) charge them fully every so often, b) leave them plugged in, or c) forget about them and never charge them (rather than maintain them at ~50% SOC). They must account for that. Then again, IDK what the typical warranty is. If it's one -(1) year, almost any lithium battery will last that long, no matter how it's treated.

Anyone interested in one might consider checking the CR review. A couple units were pretty decent but several were pathetic.

(BTW, cell phones are different. Different battery chemistry and different BMS. I believe it is a good idea to operate them between approx. 40 and 80%, and not leave them connected to a charger -- as Meanderthal said).
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