Badlands vs. Heritage Limited for oversand (ground clearance? water fording?)

[sajohnson]

Interesting, thanks, very helpful. The door frame handles are sort of set into the ceiling above each door, and I can see there are 3, not sure about on the driver's side.

The Ford guy quoted me 48.6K, which is 2K over asking, and then came down $1K today, so 47 something. I think they are desperate, this being the end of the month.

I'm really mystified about that ground clearance thing. Once I air down the clearance would be below 8 inches, and I have a big center hump between the sand ruts. I think the bash plate could handle it but I'd rather clear it.

"I also plan to possibly die in this vehicle" made me BOL, yeah I guess I should probably plan the same. I hope they're durable. My Rav kept going forever even though I beat the hell out of it.

My wife and I also went from a RAV4 (1997) to a BS BL. We still have the RAV4 -- it still looks good and runs well. Even the A/C still works, but it finally developed enough problems that we decided to get the Badlands, rather than keep working on the RAV. It's a shame because it has the optional Torsen rear diff, which very few have.

FWIW -- you might consider the cloth seats if they are an option. We have them and the upholstery seems to be a dense enough weave that sand would lay on top. If all that's available is leather, and if the perforations are large enough to be an issue, there are a lot of seat covers available (although it would be a shame to pay for leather and then cover it).

I think it's great that you actually measured the ground clearance!

That's something I would do (if I were in your situation). All I can say is your tape measure doesn't lie. IDK how Ford comes up with their measurements, but I would not put it past them (or any other mfr) to "exaggerate" a bit.

I know RV mfrs are famous for taking measurements that, while usually factual, are misleading. For example, "headroom" is measured from an unobstructed area of the ceiling (e.g., not from a low point like the A/C unit). "Width" does not include any trim, storage bins, awnings, etc.

Whether Ford plays games like that, IDK. For example, if they wanted to increase the ground clearance spec, they could measure it with the suspension unloaded. That would be a real stretch, but they could say that when the BS 'gets light' going over a rise, and the suspension is resting on the lower bump stops, the clearance is 8.8".

That said, it sounds like, money no object, you might be happier with a full-size Bronco. Of course, aside from the additional money there's the question of how much of your driving will be on rutted sand. In our case, we could not justify a Bronco (or other larger, more expensive SUV). Even if the extra cost was not an issue, we do almost all of our driving on pavement, so a Bronco would be serious overkill, and from what I've read they do not ride or handle particularly well -- not to mention much lower mpg. But still, if you do a lot of driving on sand, where clearance is a serious concern, maybe the Bronco (or similar) would be worth considering.

BTW -- I love the old video (8 mm?) of you driving the Jeep, it's great that you have that!

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[Andi C]

My wife and I also went from a RAV4 (1997) to a BS BL. We still have the RAV4 -- it still looks good and runs well. Even the A/C still works, but it finally developed enough problems that we decided to get the Badlands, rather than keep working on the RAV. It's a shame because it has the optional Torsen rear diff, which very few have.

FWIW -- you might consider the cloth seats if they are an option. We have them and the upholstery seems to be a dense enough weave that sand would lay on top. If all that's available is leather, and if the perforations are large enough to be an issue, there are a lot of seat covers available (although it would be a shame to pay for leather and then cover it).

I think it's great that you actually measured the ground clearance!

That's something I would do (if I were in your situation). All I can say is your tape measure doesn't lie. IDK how Ford comes up with their measurements, but I would not put it past them (or any other mfr) to "exaggerate" a bit.

I know RV mfrs are famous for taking measurements that, while usually factual, are misleading. For example, "headroom" is measured from an unobstructed area of the ceiling (e.g., not from a low point like the A/C unit). "Width" does not include any trim, storage bins, awnings, etc.

Whether Ford plays games like that, IDK. For example, if they wanted to increase the ground clearance spec, they could measure it with the suspension unloaded. That would be a real stretch, but they could say that when the BS 'gets light' going over a rise, and the suspension is resting on the lower bump stops, the clearance is 8.8".

That said, it sounds like, money no object, you might be happier with a full-size Bronco. Of course, aside from the additional money there's the question of how much of your driving will be on rutted sand. In our case, we could not justify a Bronco (or other larger, more expensive SUV). Even if the extra cost was not an issue, we do almost all of our driving on pavement, so a Bronco would be serious overkill, and from what I've read they do not ride or handle particularly well -- not to mention much lower mpg. But still, if you do a lot of driving on sand, where clearance is a serious concern, maybe the Bronco (or similar) would be worth considering.

BTW -- I love the old video (8 mm?) of you driving the Jeep, it's great that you have that!

Thanks so much for your thoughts -- and sorry for the lag (work craziness). I'm still leaning towards the HLE, I just love that Yellowstone butter-and-sugar color so much and it brings back memories of our yellow Jeep from my childhood. The full-sized Bronco is too much for me living in the city, and I also like to go on road trips etc. I think the Bronco Sport is the one.

My current hesitation is whether the HLE is too flashy and "fancy"-looking for living in our rustic off-the-grid dune house, but if so it'll be a Badlands, maybe in Cactus Gray.

I'm going next week to visit a couple of dealerships and I'm planning to bring my tape measure. ;-) Will update with pics if there is a purchase.

And yes, the super-8 is a treasure. My dad was always filming us, and we are in the process of digitizing all that great old footage from the 60s and 70s.

 

[sajohnson]

Thanks so much for your thoughts -- and sorry for the lag (work craziness). I'm still leaning towards the HLE, I just love that Yellowstone butter-and-sugar color so much and it brings back memories of our yellow Jeep from my childhood. The full-sized Bronco is too much for me living in the city, and I also like to go on road trips etc. I think the Bronco Sport is the one.

My current hesitation is whether the HLE is too flashy and "fancy"-looking for living in our rustic off-the-grid dune house, but if so it'll be a Badlands, maybe in Cactus Gray.

I'm going next week to visit a couple of dealerships and I'm planning to bring my tape measure. ;-) Will update with pics if there is a purchase.

And yes, the super-8 is a treasure. My dad was always filming us, and we are in the process of digitizing all that great old footage from the 60s and 70s.

I had to Google 'dune house'. Most of them were ginormous sand castles. I'm guessing yours may be more like this?:

We're not off the grid but we do have a large UPS -- 16 golf cart batteries and a pair of Trace inverters. The house is a 130 year old log cabin and the cactus grey Badlands seems to fit in fine. I've never been one for bright colors -- not on cars anyway. IMO, the cactus grey is a good choice. Very subdued.

My dad was the same -- always taking 8mm movies. They are mostly from the '60s, and some from the '50s.

All of the film was stored in one of those large blue-green steel containers made for 7" reels. I had it here in the cabin for years. Then about 30 years ago, my brother and his wife were here visiting and he begged me to let him take the movies and digitize them. Against my better judgement I finally caved and they took them.

They were never digitized and they quickly disappeared, never to be seen again.

He swears they are in a box 'somewhere'...

Back on the Badlands -- are you familiar with Granger Ford? They post here frequently (or used to). I've heard nothing but positive feedback about them. They are north of Des Moines. IDK what their current offer is (if any) but they were selling for 6% under *invoice*. Just a potential option.

 

[Andi C]

I had to Google 'dune house'. Most of them were ginormous sand castles. I'm guessing yours may be more like this?:

We're not off the grid but we do have a large UPS -- 16 golf cart batteries and a pair of Trace inverters. The house is a 130 year old log cabin and the cactus grey Badlands seems to fit in fine. I've never been one for bright colors -- not on cars anyway. IMO, the cactus grey is a good choice. Very subdued.

My dad was the same -- always taking 8mm movies. They are mostly from the '60s, and some from the '50s.

All of the film was stored in one of those large blue-green steel containers made for 7" reels. I had it here in the cabin for years. Then about 30 years ago, my brother and his wife were here visiting and he begged me to let him take the movies and digitize them. Against my better judgement I finally caved and they took them.

They were never digitized and they quickly disappeared, never to be seen again.

He swears they are in a box 'somewhere'...

Back on the Badlands -- are you familiar with Granger Ford? They post here frequently (or used to). I've heard nothing but positive feedback about them. They are north of Des Moines. IDK what their current offer is (if any) but they were selling for 6% under *invoice*. Just a potential option.

Here's our place, with a ridiculously over-the-top double rainbow.

We just have 4 movable solar panels with a GoalZero LI battery and inverter unit. For a while there I was thinking about getting a Jeep Wrangler 4XE and hooking it up to solar, but it wouldn't make sense with all the city and highway driving I do the rest of the year.

I found an older thread on this forum with discussion about driving on deeply rutted soft sand roads, and someone who also drives in the area mentioned sand getting up under the skid plate, having to take it off and empty it out sometimes. I kept losing the plate off my Rav and had to permanently remove it eventually. The BS Badlands has 1 inch more ground clearance than my Rav, and I understand that most of that is the tires.

Thanks for the tip about Granger Ford. I'm on the east coast, so will probably stick to local dealerships, although they are mostly horrible.

 

[sajohnson]

Here's our place, with a ridiculously over-the-top double rainbow.

We just have 4 movable solar panels with a GoalZero LI battery and inverter unit. For a while there I was thinking about getting a Jeep Wrangler 4XE and hooking it up to solar, but it wouldn't make sense with all the city and highway driving I do the rest of the year.

I found an older thread on this forum with discussion about driving on deeply rutted soft sand roads, and someone who also drives in the area mentioned sand getting up under the skid plate, having to take it off and empty it out sometimes. I kept losing the plate off my Rav and had to permanently remove it eventually. The BS Badlands has 1 inch more ground clearance than my Rav, and I understand that most of that is the tires.

Thanks for the tip about Granger Ford. I'm on the east coast, so will probably stick to local dealerships, although they are mostly horrible.

Nice photo! That looks like a great place!

We've got a small RV with a couple panels on the roof, two 12 volt lithium batteries, and a 2,000 watt pure sine wave inverter, but because we're 'travelers' (rather than staying in one place for several days) and we tend to camp in the woods, we haven't gotten much use out of the panels. Cool stuff though.

Des Moines is about a 1,000 mile drive for us, but even deducting (say) $0.50 per mile for the cost of driving, it was still worth it financially. I can't recall the numbers now, but 6% below invoice vs MSRP (which virtually all dealers were charging) was a savings of several thousand dollars -- even considering the miles on the vehicles.

Ultimately though, we went with our local dealer -- primarily because I've had several bad experiences over the years getting warranty service -- particularly from dealers that did not sell me the vehicle. They can be very 'grumpy' and stressful to deal with (to put it mildly).

Of course, there is no guarantee that the dealer we bought the BS BL from will be happy to perform warranty service, let alone give us a loaner car. It may end up being that we should have bought from Granger. Hopefully we'll never find out because we will not need any warranty repairs.

In any case, even if warranty service is not a concern, it is a long drive to Des Moines and time has value also. We all know people who will drive miles out of their way to save $0.10/gallon on gas.

On the skid plate, offhand I can't see why some sand on it would be a problem. If it is, and you find yourself removing and reinstalling it frequently, you might consider leaving it off. It probably has limited usefulness on sand (assuming it's all sand and no rocks).

 

[Andi C]

Whelp, here's the update: I did it! Took the plunge last week. Picked up the BS HLE for MSRP from Wayne Ford in NJ.

When I went for the test drive (and purchase), I brought a tape measure and made sure the ground clearance was good. It was, as advertised, almost 9 inches with the Falken tires.

Brought her out to the dunes yesterday for the first time, where we encountered a lot of flooding due to the extreme high tide pushing up the water table. We had to ford about 8-9 large flooded areas. I did get out and physically walk (barefoot) through the deeper ones to check depth. I'd say the deepest was 14-15 inches. My old Rav-4 definitely would not have made it through, but Buttercup sure did!

(Yes, that is her name. ?)

Can I tell you how much I love this car? Just over the moon. And yes, I did bring my 92-y/o mother, and she loved it too!

I tried switching to "Sand" in the GOAT modes, but it downshifted too low to make sense. When we have to go up a very soft, steep dune late in the summer when the sand is all churned and loose I may try it again an see what happens. But for now, 4WD lock did the trick, no trouble at all, very easy. Tires were down to 11 psi per park regulations and they flattened well.


Thanks for all the advice, measuring, etc. -- it settled my mind about moving forward with this beauty.

 

[67L48]

Congrats. Those Falken tires are no joke. I had them on a previous F-150 and I'm looking forward to putting them on my F-350. It was literally a selling feature of the BL to me ... being able to upgrade to a true AT in the Falken Wildpeak AT3W.

I'm not a fan of people naming their cars, but yours is the exception. I really like that. Very nice.

Thanks for the details and for taking the time to write up your experience. I enjoyed reading it and it will help others in the future.

 

[sajohnson]

Whelp, here's the update: I did it! Took the plunge last week. Picked up the BS HLE for MSRP from Wayne Ford in NJ.

When I went for the test drive (and purchase), I brought a tape measure and made sure the ground clearance was good. It was, as advertised, almost 9 inches with the Falken tires.

Brought her out to the dunes yesterday for the first time, where we encountered a lot of flooding due to the extreme high tide pushing up the water table. We had to ford about 8-9 large flooded areas. I did get out and physically walk (barefoot) through the deeper ones to check depth. I'd say the deepest was 14-15 inches. My old Rav-4 definitely would not have made it through, but Buttercup sure did!

(Yes, that is her name. ?)

Can I tell you how much I love this car? Just over the moon. And yes, I did bring my 92-y/o mother, and she loved it too!

I tried switching to "Sand" in the GOAT modes, but it downshifted too low to make sense. When we have to go up a very soft, steep dune late in the summer when the sand is all churned and loose I may try it again an see what happens. But for now, 4WD lock did the trick, no trouble at all, very easy. Tires were down to 11 psi per park regulations and they flattened well.


Thanks for all the advice, measuring, etc. -- it settled my mind about moving forward with this beauty.

Oh no -- not the BS HLE! We said the BS BL. Is it too late to return it?

Buttercup looks sweet! You sure have a fun place to play.

I'm glad you measured the ground clearance! Did anyone say anything while you had the tape measure out?

 

[Andi C]

Oh no -- not the BS HLE! We said the BS BL. Is it too late to return it?

Buttercup looks sweet! You sure have a fun place to play.

I'm glad you measured the ground clearance! Did anyone say anything while you had the tape measure out?

Haha I knew I'd get razzed here ? I did look very seriously at the BL -- but I think I would have been disappointed, once I set my heart on the Yellowstone.

Also there were certain things I needed/wanted -- tow package, moon roof, etc. that came standard on the HLE.

And the white roof will stay cool in the hot summer sun. ?

Also mom loves it -- I can't lie, that was a factor.

At the dealership they did not bat an eye when I measured the ground clearance. I liked the experience there overall, would recommend Wayne Ford (over the Brooklyn dealer, which pretty much sucked). I'll go to NJ for service.

Still getting to know the vehicle, there are a lot more bells and whistles than my old one. Been reading the manual and learning the systems.

One minor complaint is it takes a bit more work to drive on the highway -- the steering is a lot stiffer than my Rav. But I guess it's to be expected with a car that is geared toward off-road.

Looking forward to lots of dune and beach driving this summer with my sweet new ride. ?

Happy trails!

 

[Andi C]

Congrats. Those Falken tires are no joke. I had them on a previous F-150 and I'm looking forward to putting them on my F-350. It was literally a selling feature of the BL to me ... being able to upgrade to a true AT in the Falken Wildpeak AT3W.

I'm not a fan of people naming their cars, but yours is the exception. I really like that. Very nice.

Thanks for the details and for taking the time to write up your experience. I enjoyed reading it and it will help others in the future.

Interesting! Yeah I can already tell the difference with the tires. They seem awesome, did not know what I was missing.

The car sort of named itself, sometimes it happens like that. Usually my cars have no name. I had a VW Golf in college named "The Blue Pearl," but that was a long time ago.

Anyway, yup, it's Buttercup.

Anyone got a problem with it...

 

[sajohnson]

Haha I knew I'd get razzed here ? I did look very seriously at the BL -- but I think I would have been disappointed, once I set my heart on the Yellowstone.

Also there were certain things I needed/wanted -- tow package, moon roof, etc. that came standard on the HLE.

And the white roof will stay cool in the hot summer sun. ?

Also mom loves it -- I can't lie, that was a factor.

At the dealership they did not bat an eye when I measured the ground clearance. I liked the experience there overall, would recommend Wayne Ford (over the Brooklyn dealer, which pretty much sucked). I'll go to NJ for service.

Still getting to know the vehicle, there are a lot more bells and whistles than my old one. Been reading the manual and learning the systems.

One minor complaint is it takes a bit more work to drive on the highway -- the steering is a lot stiffer than my Rav. But I guess it's to be expected with a car that is geared toward off-road.

Looking forward to lots of dune and beach driving this summer with my sweet new ride. ?

Happy trails!

Gotta go with mom!

We haven't noticed any increased steering effort (and our previous vehicle was a RAV4 -- 1997). That said, something like steering effort is subjective.

The steering is adjustable. See the "Chassis" section (this PDF has lots of good info in one place):
https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North America/US/product/2022/bronco-sport/2022-Bronco-Sport-Tech-Specs.pdf

Steering effort is determined by which GOAT mode is selected:

"Bronco Sport benefits from three-mode electric power-assisted steering to provide more subtle response in choppier trail events and lighter steering effort at low speeds in Rock Crawl mode.":
https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021/08/20/high-performance-off-road-stability-suspension.html

There is supposed to be a difference in steering feel between "Eco" and "Sport" mode:

"Sport mode is quite the opposite of Eco mode, trading efficiency for performance. Sport mode increases throttle response, provides a sportier exhaust sound and steering feel, and quickens shifting.":
https://fordauthority.com/2022/09/ford-bronco-sport-g-o-a-t-modes-explained/

Maybe try switching between those 2 modes?

 

[Andi C]

Ah, interesting! I will check it out and see if there is a difference.

Mainly it's during highway driving. The distance to my off-the-grid place is about 250 miles each way. I noticed my hands getting tired about an hour into the trip. Maybe the tires make a difference...

Come to think of it, could just be I had a death grip on the steering wheel, driving my first-ever new car and being paranoid about anything happening to it...

I put a couple of scuffs on the black plastic rear-view mirror front from trees and bushes, and one scuff on the bumper when I accidentally bumped it with a ladder. TBH it was kind of a relief that it was me and not someone else.

Guessing there is some kind of product for this. But I don't have any illusions that this car will remain pristine with the kind of terrain I travel... and that is after all what it's built for.

 

[sajohnson]

Ah, interesting! I will check it out and see if there is a difference.

Mainly it's during highway driving. The distance to my off-the-grid place is about 250 miles each way. I noticed my hands getting tired about an hour into the trip. Maybe the tires make a difference...

Come to think of it, could just be I had a death grip on the steering wheel, driving my first-ever new car and being paranoid about anything happening to it...

I put a couple of scuffs on the black plastic rear-view mirror front from trees and bushes, and one scuff on the bumper when I accidentally bumped it with a ladder. TBH it was kind of a relief that it was me and not someone else.

Guessing there is some kind of product for this. But I don't have any illusions that this car will remain pristine with the kind of terrain I travel... and that is after all what it's built for.

The last time I had a death grip on the wheel was traveling on I-90 out west in our RV (a View). There was a very strong wind out of the north -- maybe 40-50 mph with stronger gusts. We were getting blown onto the shoulder and almost hit the guardrail a couple times. I had to hold the wheel at about 10 o'clock to stay in our lane! Then when an overpass would temporarily block the wind the rig would shoot to the left. Good times...

Was there any other reason you were gripping the wheel so tightly? Heavy traffic? Crazy drivers? Whatever the cause, that could definitely make your hands tired after a while.

There can be a pretty big difference in steering effort between vehicles. When power steering first became popular, the steering in many cars was 'numb' and ridiculously over-boosted -- you could easily turn the wheel with one finger. As time went on, power steering systems improved. For example they began to be speed-sensitive -- more boost at low speed, less as speed increases.

Anyway, I can't recall what year your RAV is, but maybe it has more assist than the BS HLE. I think the steering in our '97 RAV is about the same as the BS BL, but I haven't driven them back to back.

On the plastic, we used a product on the RV that worked great. Some of the black plastic trim was faded and this stuff brought it back to like new. It still looks good years later. It looks kind of cheesy because the package says "As seen on TV" but the stuff is amazing. It was the top-rated product in CR's testing. I can't recall the name but I can probably find it if you're interested. I should mention that our plastic trim was not scratched, so IDK how it will perform in that case.

 

[RSH]

Congrats, was starting to think you weren't going to go through with it, enjoy your Buttercup.

 

[Andi C]

The last time I had a death grip on the wheel was traveling on I-90 out west in our RV (a View). There was a very strong wind out of the north -- maybe 40-50 mph with stronger gusts. We were getting blown onto the shoulder and almost hit the guardrail a couple times. I had to hold the wheel at about 10 o'clock to stay in our lane! Then when an overpass would temporarily block the wind the rig would shoot to the left. Good times...

Was there any other reason you were gripping the wheel so tightly? Heavy traffic? Crazy drivers? Whatever the cause, that could definitely make your hands tired after a while.

There can be a pretty big difference in steering effort between vehicles. When power steering first became popular, the steering in many cars was 'numb' and ridiculously over-boosted -- you could easily turn the wheel with one finger. As time went on, power steering systems improved. For example they began to be speed-sensitive -- more boost at low speed, less as speed increases.

Anyway, I can't recall what year your RAV is, but maybe it has more assist than the BS HLE. I think the steering in our '97 RAV is about the same as the BS BL, but I haven't driven them back to back.

Oh wow, maybe that's what it is! My RAV was a 2007.

But I also recently rented a new RAV for a short trip and it steered pretty easily from what I remember.

I think I just need to get used to the BS steering. I get the sense that once you have turned/adjusted the steering wheel you can kind of relax your hands. That's how I drove the rest of the way on the trip and it ended up being fine.

Strong winds in an RV... sounds like a real white-knuckle experience! I've driven all kinds of weather including black ice, downpours, storm cell... no fun ?

My aunt (also 92, identical twin to mom) was driving in that snow storm in Buffalo last winter -- whiteout conditions. She bashed her brand new Subaru up on the guard rail, but she was okay. A sheriff guided her to a hotel where there was no power and the guests all shivered together in the lobby under blankets. She was lucky though.

I've always dreamed of RV life, go where the wind blows and experience the country at a slow pace. So appealing.

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