FordPass Complaint

[Uncle Brad]

This is the only Internet forum I am on, and my actual identity is not known. I do not login to any Goggle account (real or burner) and enjoy YouTube without ads. I run Linux exclusively outside my degoogled phone. I don't belong to any "social media" platforms. I run a VPN 24/7 and watch my firewall ports religiously. You see, you're doing what Ford has done: assume that EVERYBODY uses popular Internet platforms, and builds policy around it.

And just because a lot of "lots of companies file and have patents for thousands of things they have no plan or intent of using" that doesn't make it OK. After all, Ford would not apply for a patent to monitor roadsides and pelt the driver with ads unless they anticipated making a profit by doing so.

"It’s 2024" is not any kind of argument: I said that about 1975, but I'm not wearing turtlenecks any more.

Assuming that you are a grownup, you can buy whatever car you want. I'm simply saying that I have reason to be concerned. You've provided no reason for me NOT to be concerned. Moreover, you have made several erroneous presumptions and a couple of whopper straw-man arguments.

Thanks for reminding me why I'm not on social media, and probably shouldn't contribute to this forum.

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[Jmuns]

This is the only Internet forum I am on, and my actual identity is not known. I do not login to any Goggle account (real or burner) and enjoy YouTube without ads. I run Linux exclusively outside my degoogled phone. I don't belong to any "social media" platforms. I run a VPN 24/7 and watch my firewall ports religiously. You see, you're doing what Ford has done: assume that EVERYBODY uses popular Internet platforms, and builds policy around it.

And just because a lot of "lots of companies file and have patents for thousands of things they have no plan or intent of using" that doesn't make it OK. After all, Ford would not apply for a patent to monitor roadsides and pelt the driver with ads unless they anticipated making a profit by doing so.

"It’s 2024" is not any kind of argument: I said that about 1975, but I'm not wearing turtlenecks any more.

Assuming that you are a grownup, you can buy whatever car you want. I'm simply saying that I have reason to be concerned. You've provided no reason for me NOT to be concerned. Moreover, you have made several erroneous presumptions and a couple of whopper straw-man arguments.

Thanks for reminding me why I'm not on social media, and probably shouldn't contribute to this forum.

You're welcome. You need to relax man. You're paranoid.

 

[Uncle Brad]

You're welcome. You need to relax man. You're paranoid.

Note to self: Jmuns responded by lashing out with unjustified accusation - and not actually addressing my concerns. It's 2024, man. But nothing ever changes.

 

[Bucko]

Here is another complaint from a crotchety old guy wagging his cane at you: Ford has indeed lost its grip on its software vs its customers.

I don't use a "normiephone". I use a degoogled Android phone. The assumption Ford makes is that their new buyer will be using an iPhone or a Verizion/ATT/T-Mobile incarnation of an Android phone. Since all these phones are positively loaded with security problems, many folks are moving away from them. Yet, Ford FORCES their new buyer using the Android operating system to install FordPass via Google Play. My dealership got Ford support on the horn, and Ford support didn't even understand the problem. They blue-screened when asked how I can install FordPass using an APK.

And another thing: If I can know where my car is located on the planet, and can stop/start it from anywhere, so can they. We already know that Ford is tracking our driving habits and listening to our conversations. We already know that car companies sell the resultant data to insurance companies. And looking at recent patents Ford has made, it appears Ford is intent on forging ahead with their nefarious data collection.

I never use FordPass, which is the sugar given us to "accept" this nefarious activity.

What proof do you have that Ford is currently "tracking our driving habits and listening to our conversations"?

 

[Uncle Brad]

I can of course provide you more resources, but I instead will encourage you do your own research. This will get you going.

 

[Bucko]

I can of course provide you more resources, but I instead will encourage you do your own research. This will get you going.

I listened to the vid you provided. It stated that Ford is working on this...it did not say it is working currently right now.

Until I see that this is actually in service right now (listening to you through their device while you drive), I'm not concerned. IMHO, it will not pass because of our privacy rights.

As to ads being shown, that's another thing. The internet does this now, and there are blockers you can activate to stop that. I'm sure if this dude providing the video is assuming this will happen, you will have ways to turn it off or block it.

My guess is that he is also an HOA president.

 

[Uncle Brad]

Something I've learned in my 35 years in Information Technology is that customers try really, really try hard to justify their position, which is generally rooted in "user experience" and "convenience". All manufacturers, including Ford, certainly know this.

Correction: the Internet does not block ads. It is revenue-producing applications which block ads., or add them to the degree up to (and including) the point where they get away with them, the shareholders start yelping, or both.

The "it will not pass because of our privacy rights" comment is a head scratcher. Exactly what "privacy rights" are you referring to? That's the fundamental problem: this is a greenfield situation. There is no historical precedent for what is going down now, and thus is dangerous territory. That's the point of this professor (who undoubtedly has an IQ above room temperature). This is why there are truly-qualified privacy professionals throwing up the alarms.

In the Internet security "community" there is something to which we hold dear as the best approach: ZERO TRUST. We don't live in a fantasy world full of pixies and unicorns. Being aware of going on around you in 2024 (not 1975) means to embrace the reality that you are being exploited in every way imaginable on the Internet. Ignorance of Internet threats can (and probably will) result in your bank account being cleaned out.

 

[Uncle Brad]

Let's put it this way: we can still be friends

Another thought: Your bank doesn't want your account to be cleaned out any more than you do. It does take steps (or should) to protect your data and your money, in accordance with the laws that govern it. Now, if there IS a data breach (which happens all the time) it is an outside actor behind the compromise. The point is this: the more vectors of attack there are, the more likely systems will be compromised. Can Ford do better than the banks with the data it collects? What happens if their systems are compromised, or - say - data packets between the vehicle are intercepted with a HackRF that some dude bought off EBay? What level of responsibility does Ford have in protecting existing information that you didn't want them to have in the first place? Already, nasty people can easily get into most vehicles (which use a fob) or catch its garage door opener requests way too easily using readily-available devices and very little know-how.

 

[sajohnson]

This is the only Internet forum I am on, and my actual identity is not known. I do not login to any Goggle account (real or burner) and enjoy YouTube without ads. I run Linux exclusively outside my degoogled phone. I don't belong to any "social media" platforms. I run a VPN 24/7 and watch my firewall ports religiously. You see, you're doing what Ford has done: assume that EVERYBODY uses popular Internet platforms, and builds policy around it.

And just because a lot of "lots of companies file and have patents for thousands of things they have no plan or intent of using" that doesn't make it OK. After all, Ford would not apply for a patent to monitor roadsides and pelt the driver with ads unless they anticipated making a profit by doing so.

"It’s 2024" is not any kind of argument: I said that about 1975, but I'm not wearing turtlenecks any more.

Assuming that you are a grownup, you can buy whatever car you want. I'm simply saying that I have reason to be concerned. You've provided no reason for me NOT to be concerned. Moreover, you have made several erroneous presumptions and a couple of whopper straw-man arguments.

Thanks for reminding me why I'm not on social media, and probably shouldn't contribute to this forum.

I hope you stick around. Your posts are informative and add a lot to the discussion.

One question I have is -- why do mfrs refuse to support devices (phones/tablets/ computers) after a certain (usually short) period of time? Is there a legit reason(s)?

I recall looking at the duration of support for various smart phones a while back. I was shocked to see that some were only supported for about 2 years!

That would not fly with most other consumer products. For example, suppose that when the factory warranty on the Bronco Sport (or all vehicles) ended (or say 6-7 years after purchase), Ford declared that the BS was 'no longer supported.' Not just out of warranty, but cannot be used safely. No parts/service available. You have to buy a new one.

Admittedly, that's a stretch, but that's the idea.

 

[Jmuns]

I hope you stick around. Your posts are informative and add a lot to the discussion.

One question I have is -- why do mfrs refuse to support devices (phones/tablets/ computers) after a certain (usually short) period of time? Is there a legit reason(s)?

I recall looking at the duration of support for various smart phones a while back. I was shocked to see that some were only supported for about 2 years!

That would not fly with most other consumer products. For example, suppose that when the factory warranty on the Bronco Sport (or all vehicles) ended (or say 6-7 years after purchase), Ford declared that the BS was 'no longer supported.' Not just out of warranty, but cannot be used safely. No parts/service available. You have to buy a new one.

Admittedly, that's a stretch, but that's the idea.

Some of the smartphones and computers can’t handle newer software and features that are added in, so they can’t continue to be supported because the company would lose money supporting software they no longer update. It just doesn't make any sense. From a standpoint of technical support after sale it’s also hard supporting numerous versions of outdated software. However it’s also an easy way to force people to upgrade hardware. In the case of this thread though the hardware the OP is using, iPhone 7, came out in 2016. They have definitely gotten their moneys worth.

 

[sajohnson]

I can of course provide you more resources, but I instead will encourage you do your own research. This will get you going.

Great video, thank you.

 

[Uncle Brad]

I hope you stick around. Your posts are informative and add a lot to the discussion.

One question I have is -- why do mfrs refuse to support devices (phones/tablets/ computers) after a certain (usually short) period of time? Is there a legit reason(s)?

I recall looking at the duration of support for various smart phones a while back. I was shocked to see that some were only supported for about 2 years!

That would not fly with most other consumer products. For example, suppose that when the factory warranty on the Bronco Sport (or all vehicles) ended (or say 6-7 years after purchase), Ford declared that the BS was 'no longer supported.' Not just out of warranty, but cannot be used safely. No parts/service available. You have to buy a new one.

Admittedly, that's a stretch, but that's the idea.

Yes. Imagine for instance the old Chevelle SS. If we still have one, we would possess every bit of it. All the aftermarket parts available for you to keep it on the road are there because you own and control the vehicle. It's actually silly to think any part on your old Chevelle SS - which you have a title for - is not user serviceable because you don't own it. This is the problem with embedded systems, including the software and its dependency upon the current Internet specification and/or satellite networks: 40 years from now, as it stands, these proprietary elements of the modern vehicle may not be reproducible for practical or legal reasons. Which means that our Bronco Sports 15 years from now may not be functional. Of course, this is not a new problem, but it is compounded by the increasing dependency upon these non-tangible elements that you cannot buy or replicate because technology changes very fast.

And vehicle manufacturers appear to like it this way. For example, the "right to repair" complaints that John Deere refused to deal with in order to keep control of the sale and distribution of critical electronics components found in their farm tractors and implements. Or of recent revelations about a non-US automaker which purposefully embedded unique IDs in- of all things - their headlight assemblies. If the embedded ID of the headlight you purchase does not match the vehicle ID, as found in the vendor database, your new part would not work! You have no lights at night. In BOTH these examples, consumer safety is cited for the reason for such policies.

You own the display on your dashboard, but you don't own what runs that display. You bought it, but you can't USE it without what amounts to a subscription agreement with Ford. On the 2025 Bronco Sport, you no longer have physical controls for climate control. If your display is not functional, you have no heat and no air conditioning.

Another thing: what guarantees do we have that not only the parts and the software, but also the critical database, the APIs, networks, vehicle registration data, etc. -will be in place and available 30 or 40 years from now?

It seems as though as some point everything we use in our lives - including our vehicles - will be subscription-based and non-renewable. At some point, we will likely have transponders in our vehicle, similar to ADSB, which law enforcement and insurance companies and thieves have access to. Even now, bit by bit, more and more of the functionality of our vehicles are removed from our ownership and control.

And yet, when I sound an alarm over FordPass integration with demonstrably compromised devices someone calls ME "paranoid"...

 

[Uncle Brad]

 

[sajohnson]

Another great video!

https://privacy4cars.com/ (mentioned in the video) is a very helpful website.

I opted out of all advertising; sale/sharing of my personal data, etc.

 

[Uncle Brad]

Yup that's a drag but the frustration is to be directed at Apple, not Ford. A bit blunt I realize but that's the Apple Operating System environment for you.

How does Apple control Ford's decision to install PostPass on forked, degoogled Android devices via GooglePlay only? I've never owned an iPhone (and never will).

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