5Star Tuning installed on 2.0L EcoBoost Bronco Sport Badlands

[BroSpo]

No, I'm not trying to be pedantic. You put "rubber shreds in the wheel well" and "pre-ignition" in the same sentence, and then mentioned a destroyed clutch in a different sentence. That implies these are two different topics.

Why is everyone so quick to tell others to go away when faced with push back? If your opinion is worth a squat then it should stand up to a bit of questioning. This is how people learn new things.

The EcoBoost engine incorporates a knock (detonation) sensor which is used to set engine parameters. The ONLY way to get maximum power out of an EcoBoost engine is if the knock sensor fires, which by definition means the engine is operating under detonation.

Pre-ignition and detonation are two entirely different phenomena. One is all but required for proper operation of EcoBoost engines while the other can destroy one after a single event. It's not pedantry to suggest that if you use these terms you should be precise.

No, I don't see it that way. I can think of a bunch of different ways I'd have handled that if I had a genuine question on what was stated.

You are also incorrect about pre-ignition and I don't care to debate that here. You come off pretty smugly for someone who doesn't understand that detonation is a common term for pre-ignition...I dropped you a hint but you ignored it.

Anyhow, if you have something to add to my clarified point about the dealership experience and car issues, please do. It seems you get it now, but still persist. C'mon, man let's move on please.

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[Mark S.]

You come off pretty smugly for someone who doesn't understand that detonation is a common term for pre-ignition...

Have you considered that these two terms are COMMONLY confused because people are imprecise about how they use them? It may be common to use these terms interchangeably among those who don't understand the difference, but not among those who do. As I noted, your car's engine runs under detonation all the time with no damage. It would likely take only a single incident of pre-ignition to destroy it.

The primary reason I mentioned this is because your comment about "tell-tale signs" of pre-ignition made (and still makes) no sense, whether you mean pre-ignition or detonation. The first sign of pre-ignition you're likely to get is a catastrophic engine failure. And since these engines are designed to operate under detonation all the time, there can be no tell-tale signs of it.

You are also incorrect about pre-ignition and I don't care to debate that here.

There is no debate. These are two distinct phenomena that result from entirely different causes and have entirely different implications for the health of an engine. One is necessary for proper engine operation; the other is to be avoided at all costs.

For those following the discussion who are interested, here's the difference between detonation and pre-ignition.

Anyhow, if you have something to add to my clarified point about the dealership experience and car issues, please do.

I feel I did add something to this discussion based on the fact you clarified your statement after I posted, which was my goal. Unfortunately, your clarification contained further indication that you don't understand the difference between detonation and pre-ignition.

 

[BroSpo]

Have you considered that these two terms are COMMONLY confused because people are imprecise about how they use them? It may be common to use these terms interchangeably among those who don't understand the difference, but not among those who do. As I noted, your car's engine runs under detonation all the time with no damage. It would likely take only a single incident of pre-ignition to destroy it.

The primary reason I mentioned this is because your comment about "tell-tale signs" of pre-ignition made (and still makes) no sense, whether you mean pre-ignition or detonation. The first sign of pre-ignition you're likely to get is a catastrophic engine failure. And since these engines are designed to operate under detonation all the time, there can be no tell-tale signs of it.



There is no debate. These are two distinct phenomena that result from entirely different causes and have entirely different implications for the health of an engine. One is necessary for proper engine operation; the other is to be avoided at all costs.

For those following the discussion who are interested, here's the difference between detonation and pre-ignition.




I feel I did add something to this discussion based on the fact you clarified your statement after I posted, which was my goal. Unfortunately, your clarification contained further indication that you don't understand the difference between detonation and pre-ignition.

Wow, man... This plays into the definition of being pedantic and could be the lab exercise for a class on the subject.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-speed_pre-ignition


There are a wide variety and severity of pre-ignition events that are commonly called knock or detonation. It is flatly misinformation to contest my use of pre-ignition here.

Here’s an excerpt:

 

[BroSpo]

Data logging update - Hot weather testing!

I ran the little Bronco about a 100 miles today between 92F and 102F with most of the time spent around 100F (14% humidity). I'd characterize the driving as ordinary with most of it on the highway with special attention to careful acceleration given the conditions.

That said, I would run brief periods of acceleration near WOT when merging onto the highway on several different occasions.

Boost levels were about the same as before (with the 91 octane tune) and I saw 19.29 PSI as the logged high value.

Fuel trim (short and long term) remain good/healthy around "1".
- Min .78 and max 1.17 for short term. Long term values ranged from a low of .97 to a max 1.01.

Intake air temperature ranged from 104 to 135F. At highway speeds, it seemed to settle in around 113F with ambient temps around 100F.

I kept a careful ear open to any signs of rough combustion or any form of performance loss. Even in these conditions it still feels noticeably faster in normal driving conditions (compared to stock).

Note: The speed limit here for my area is 75 MPH. I'd say I kept up with the flow of most traffic and ran about 80-82 MPH for most of my trip. While my observed fuel efficiency is lower than I've seen in the recent past, it is a lot hotter now. I'll have to check my notes from similar conditions last year, but this is something I'm watching with the new tune also. Today's indicated trip average was 20.1 MPG.

Edit: I've seen a long term average of about 23MPG prior to this "91 octane daily" tune. Since I'm only starting my second tank of fuel with this tune, I wanted to give this time and try to compare under similar conditions. In the past, I think I'd see a slight gain in fuel efficiency under the same conditions for my other vehicles with similar tunes...

 

[Mark S.]

Wow, man... This plays into the definition of being pedantic and could be the lab exercise for a class on the subject.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-speed_pre-ignition


There are a wide variety and severity of pre-ignition events that are commonly called knock or detonation. It is flatly misinformation to contest my use of pre-ignition here.

You continue to insist I'm being pedantic. That may well be true, but that's not evidence my argument is in error. This is a logical fallacy called ad hominem.

Your link to Wikipedia contains no new information. It merely reiterates that pre-ignition and detonation are commonly used interchangeably, which is something we've already established. All this proves is that you're not the only person confused about the difference between these two events. It's also dead wrong in at least one area:

[Pre-ignition is] commonly known as "Detonation or Knock". Engine management systems can overcome pre ignition by the means of a knock or detonation sensor. The sensor will detect pre ignition and retard the engines timing to protect the engine from damage.

Pre-ignition does not generate the distinctive noise made by detonation. The noise made by a detonation event, often called ping, is the sound made when two flame fronts collide. In a pre-ignition event there is only a single flame front, and therefore no ping. Since there is no ping to trigger the knock sensor the PCM will not react to it in any way. This another reason why pre-ignition is so much more damaging to an engine than detonation.

You are free to believe whatever you like, but the difference between these two events is right there in the name: "Pre" ignition. Pre means before; the fuel/air mixture ignites BEFORE the spark plug fires. Detonation occurs AFTER the spark fires. These concepts are clearly illustrated in the video I posted. I encourage you to take a look at it.

 

[scaryhours]

You continue to insist I'm being pedantic. That may well be true, but that's not evidence my argument is in error. This is a logical fallacy called ad hominem.

Your link to Wikipedia contains no new information. It merely reiterates that pre-ignition and detonation are commonly used interchangeably, which is something we've already established. All this proves is that you're not the only person confused about the difference between these two events. It's also dead wrong in at least one area:



Pre-ignition does not generate the distinctive noise made by detonation. The noise made by a detonation event, often called ping, is the sound made when two flame fronts collide. In a pre-ignition event there is only a single flame front, and therefore no ping. Since there is no ping to trigger the knock sensor the PCM will not react to it in any way. This another reason why pre-ignition is so much more damaging to an engine that detonation.

You are free to believe whatever you like, but the difference between these two events is right there in the name: "Pre" ignition. Pre means before; the fuel/air mixture ignites BEFORE the spark plug fires. Detonation occurs AFTER the spark fires. These concepts are clearly illustrated in the video I posted. I encourage you to take a look at it.

not being pedantic either, but I was just as stumped with the shreds of rubber remark.

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