California ban new gas car sales by 2035 [LOCKED DUE TO POLITICS]

[AltoAlto]

if anyone is looking for another rabbit hole. Lots of pretty colors and graphs.

Cali energy sources, demands, etc
https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html

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[Ponyrider]

Things are always changing and evolving.
https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/aluminum-sulfur-batteries-low-cost-storage?fbclid=IwAR3seahMVs8RMB6vMMNfQgM45D6YOgyW1Ihem9O8EZx76ddIfVaacIh8mc0

 

[Osco]

If EVs are so great then why do we need laws to force ppl to buy them?

I like the idea of EVs no oil changes less maintenance less moving parts strong acceleration ect. But lack of range esp in cold weather, time to recharge, strain on grid, impact of batteries on environment ect they arent there yet.

I saw a guy who ran out of battery power in his EV along side the road,
With his thumb out,
He had an empty gallon gas can,
He musta figured out how to get a gallon of electricity!
To make it home,
Pulitzer Prize winner,
I should have stopped and got his autograph. :’P

 

[Osco]

I’d love to have an EV,
IF they were affordable,
IF they had a 200 mile range in the worst of conditions.
A/C wide open,
All up hill,
Stop and go traffic,
Or 10 below pushing snow.
BUT !
I’d still want, no as you were,
NEED a gasoline vehicle,
Hybrid,, ok maybe, depends.

 

[Major Kong]

"According to researchers at Volkswagen, there are about 14 million tons of lithium left, which corresponds to 165 times the production volume in 2018." - Wikipedia, Environmental impact of lithium-ion batteries

You are here (only the US figures)
https://electrek.co/2022/08/24/current-ev-registrations-in-the-us-how-does-your-state-stack-up/

The direction they're taking us
https://www.eei.org/News/news/All/eei-projects-26-million-electric-vehicles-will-be-on-us-roads-in-2030

14,000,000 tons = 165 tons x 2018 production volume

14,000,000 tons / 165 tons = 165 tons x 2018 production volume/165


84,848.484848484848 tons = 2018 production year
(think my calculator's needle is skipping, check that number)

2021 EV registrations (US only) = 1.5 M

Projected 2030 registrations (US only) = 26.4 M

Finite number as per Volkswagen researchers
Global EV demand will chew through lithium in no time

 

[Major Kong]

pondering
fathoming
my synapses need to be re-gapped
experiencing misfires
returning back to projected EV numbers by 2030
afterthought hits
this period should coincide with 10 yr battery lifespans
2030 hit peak lithium demand for new EV's
2030 will add addition demand for replacement battery lithium
disposable EV's can't happen
must maintain at all cost
pondering again
ponder.....
wait
how much does it cost to replace a battery @ 2022 $'s
ponder.....
finite
lithium
dwindle (now there's a helluva word ain't it)
2030 battery replacement $'s
I must ponder more on this dwindle
2030
ponder...
ctrl /puppet gov't

https://www.sciencebase.gov/catalog/item/5d0baffce4b0e3d31162044c

https://www.sciencebase.gov/catalog/item/imap/5d0baffce4b0e3d31162044c

 

[Mark S.]

"According to researchers at Volkswagen, there are about 14 million tons of lithium left, which corresponds to 165 times the production volume in 2018." - Wikipedia, Environmental impact of lithium-ion batteries

I'm skeptical anytime I read about resource depletion.

 

[Major Kong]

I'm skeptical anytime I read about resource depletion.

confirmed
skepticism
a good dose with coffee every morning
it'll keep you healthy
along with adherence to the family motto
"moderation in all things"
https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/stories/2020/03/lithium-mining-what-you-should-know-about-the-contentious-issue.html#:~:text=The total global reserves are,the production volume in 2018.&text=Where is the most lithium mined?
Volkswagen "researchers" are short of global map link numbers



energy drilling/pipeline - shut it down
lithium mining - let's go boys
witnessing theatre of the absurd

 

[Mark S.]

"moderation in all things"

Including moderation...

 

[AmazingSieve]

The fear of EVs is funny and a bit exaggerated. Same with this fear of the California mandate. It’s a paper Tiger and only applies to California. This idea that since it happened in CA that it’s law everywhere is nonsense.

 

[kingtj]

Curious I looked up a Prius replacement battery and found this at a Toyota authorized parts store.
For a 2010 - 2015 model which are beyond the factory warranty, $ 2,083.88 on sale. Of course labor and such are extra but it doesn't seem all that excessive considering how long they last. Shouldn't take more than a couple hours labor to switch out.

Prius battery

Yep.... I'm just not a Prius fan at all. I hate the stigma attached to them, not to mention they offer some of the ugliest colors for them I've ever seen on motor vehicles. But a high cost of operation and maintenance really isn't one of their issues. If you search YouTube for Prius battery replacement, you'll find multiple "how to" videos of people who took apart old Prius battery packs and replaced the individual cells in them for as little as $600 or so.

 

[TEdison]

Ford Officially Endorses Expected CARB Vote For 2035 ICE Sales Ban

Why would an auto manufacturer object to raising prices across the board by $20,000+, especially by government mandate? They'd be insane not to endorse it.

 

[TEdison]

Do people really not realize how bad for the planet it is to produce EVs?

Unfortunately no, they don't.?

 

[TEdison]

The fear of EVs is funny and a bit exaggerated. Same with this fear of the California mandate. It’s a paper Tiger and only applies to California. This idea that since it happened in CA that it’s law everywhere is nonsense.

I think that the only "fears" are:
1. The price of the vehicle.
2. Can't drive from (for example) Charlotte, NC to Orlando, FL in one day. Battery technology just isn't there yet.
3. The price of the vehicle.
4. The cost for insurance of electric vehicles is higher.
5. The rising cost of electricity needed to charge the vehicle (and improve the infrastructure.)
6. The added cost for sound equipment to make your Prius sound like a BOSS 302 Mustang...and, of course, the price of the vehicle.

 

[kingtj]

Unfortunately no, they don't.?

Well, *some* of us do, but we also look at the big picture and long-term.....

To me, it's like this. Every time you burn a gallon of gasoline or diesel fuel, you're polluting the air with the emissions it gives off, and that process hasn't really changed in 100+ years of making internal combustion engines. (Yeah, we have more emissions equipment on modern vehicles, but the main process of burning fuel for energy is the same.) You've also got all the pollution that happens with the process of getting the crude oil out of the ground, shipping it to a refinery for processing, and the energy used at said refinery to do that processing. And then more pollution involved for tanker trucks to deliver it to gas stations all over the country. Even after that, more energy is used for the electricity needed for the gas pumps and gas station so people can fill up.

So sure, making batteries for EVs is nasty and polluting too. But is one *really* far worse than the other? I doubt it. I feel like the truth is probably more along the lines of having an environmental impact no matter what, when we want to harvest energy to turn into motion for transportation. You trade off one thing for another -- but probably a "wash" overall.

With EVs, you also have the fact that the battery creation process is still evolving. They're starting to make battery packs already that eliminate the need for cobalt, since that's scarce and mined using a lot of child labor and such. Lithium is still a problem, but we figured out how to render that from salt ponds instead of strip mining for it. So that's an improvement. And they're working on alternates for it too (sodium chloride is one possibility).

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