What is wrong with Ford?

Jomo

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It truely irritates me as to the engineering direction that Ford takes. It makes no sense to me. Ford seems to push unresolved technology on the customer without addressing the things that really matter. Concepts like reliability, durability, time to market, competitiveness are all poorly resolved. The powershift transmission is a perfect example. Ford designs an unproven, complicated transmission to a low price. All for 1 or 2 mpg. Sounds like a recipe for disaster and it was. To this day, it is a financial liability.

Fast foward to the 3-cylinder Dragon engine. The 3-cylinder Dragon engine is not necessisarily a bad step if Ford addresses the issues with a 3-cylinder's vibration. Ford addressed some of this with a unique flywheel design that seems to be good engineering, but they do not know when to stop. Why add the complication of cylinder deactivation to a small 3 cylinder when there are going to be undesirable compromises? The special flywheel cannot be optimal for both running conditions, so vibration results. Why program an auto transmission to shift under minimum turbo speeds that impact engine response and vibration? 0.5 mpg? Why use a oil bath timing belt at the expense of the reliability of a timing chain? A neglible amount of noise?! $10 cost? If they would stop inventing new ways to produce an unreliable or undesirable vehicle, why not sacrifice the 1 mpg to give the customer a more reliable, lower NVH vehicle without the deactivation complication, with a transmission programmed for smooth driving in all conditions and a reliable timing chain that will last the life of the car. And at no expense and less design time! Baby steps to perfection. If you want 1 mpg, you are more interested in the 10+ mpg of the hybrid anyway. The hybrid, with the tried and true Mazda L motor, may to be the reliable choice as well.

Then comes the interior materials. What is the excuse? The Escape was primarily designed out of the UK. Are the Escape/Kuga materials acceptable there? If they are, they aren't acceptable here for $30k+ vehicles. How long do we have to complain about this? For the most part, Lincoln seems to get this and have made great strides recently. When is Ford cars going to fill some of the gaping hole between Ford and Lincoln? I ask for competitve materials since better than the competition does not appear to be in the cards. My goodness, has Ford ever looked at the interior of a Mazda CX-5? Even the CX-30 puts the Escape to shame. It can't be that expensive.

Sorry, it just pisses me off that Ford just keeps fumbling. All their products have similar issues. Even the GT350 with its low end interior. I want to buy American, but can't get an American car company to build what I want.
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The Pope

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Two Words: Bean Counters

Got to make the Bottom Line look good Right Now, as what it will look like Down The Road isn't the Bean Counter's Concern.... SMH!!!!!
 

Sherminiator

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Sorry, it just pisses me off that Ford just keeps fumbling. All their products have similar issues. Even the GT350 with its low end interior. I want to buy American, but can't get an American car company to build what I want.
Couple points you might be missing:

The 1.5L is to help meet CAFE requirements and yes, maybe push people into upgrading the Hybrid or 2.0L Ecoboost. I'm guessing the vast majority of customers won't even notice it that buy it.

As for the interior concerns-the materials are different in the US version then what is overseas. Ford has been struggling with the Escape pricing since the 2013 redesign and adding additional content to it has just compounded that problem. Just as example, when the 2013 came out, a fully loaded SEL cost more then an entry level Ti model. To further compound the issues, my wife's 2017 SE has more equipment then my parents 2013 Titanium Escape does, save the leather seating surfaces at a 5K lower price point, and my parents Escape doesn't have AWD either! I'm also going to assume the ROW Kuga/Escape sells at a higher price point then NA Escape does. The NA Escape is low to mid end vehicle. Only the Ecosport is under it and that is the price leader for Ford and its entry level product.

Japanese makers have one big advantage over US makers-currency manipulation. When the dollar is strong against the Yen, they make big bucks which allows them to offset costs that US manufactures have to deal with equipment.

Ford is aware of the interior issues-they are upgrading the Explorer for example and the Bronco Sport will see better materials. I haven't heard anyone bitch about the Mustang's interior since 2015....
 
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Jomo

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Two Words: Bean Counters

Got to make the Bottom Line look good Right Now, as what it will look like Down The Road isn't the Bean Counter's Concern.... SMH!!!!!
This is part of it and I’m sure the UAW costs don’t help. But, my issue is the engineering they can control. The money and design time expended on a cylinder deactivation solenoid and the unresolved implementation could have been spent on a smoother running engine that is more durable. They may even save money. Their priorities are messed up in regard to what the customer wants....and what Ford needs.
 

Sherminiator

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This is part of it and I’m sure the UAW costs don’t help. But, my issue is the engineering they can control. The money and design time expended on a cylinder deactivation solenoid and the unresolved implementation could have been spent on a smoother running engine that is more durable. They may even save money. Their priorities are messed up in regard to what the customer wants....and what Ford needs.
How is the engine not durable? The engine is going to be rougher because it doesn't have even number of cylinders to off set NVH, so its going to act differently.
 


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Jomo

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Couple points you might be missing:

The 1.5L is to help meet CAFE requirements and yes, maybe push people into upgrading the Hybrid or 2.0L Ecoboost. I'm guessing the vast majority of customers won't even notice it that buy it.

As for the interior concerns-the materials are different in the US version then what is overseas. Ford has been struggling with the Escape pricing since the 2013 redesign and adding additional content to it has just compounded that problem. Just as example, when the 2013 came out, a fully loaded SEL cost more then an entry level Ti model. To further compound the issues, my wife's 2017 SE has more equipment then my parents 2013 Titanium Escape does, save the leather seating surfaces at a 5K lower price point, and my parents Escape doesn't have AWD either! I'm also going to assume the ROW Kuga/Escape sells at a higher price point then NA Escape does. The NA Escape is low to mid end vehicle. Only the Ecosport is under it and that is the price leader for Ford and its entry level product.

Japanese makers have one big advantage over US makers-currency manipulation. When the dollar is strong against the Yen, they make big bucks which allows them to offset costs that US manufactures have to deal with equipment.

Ford is aware of the interior issues-they are upgrading the Explorer for example and the Bronco Sport will see better materials. I haven't heard anyone bitch about the Mustang's interior since 2015....
There is no excuse for producing a base engine that has so many vices. Buyers on a budget will just look for other cars without these issues and not upgrade with Ford.

And those American materials......Hondas, Subarus, Toyotas,.....Lincolns. Some actually use American materials on their US made cars. They don’t have excuses. I was pleasantly surprised by Lincoln’s base interior. Hopefully there is some trickle down to Ford. I’m not saying that a Ford needs to be a Lincoln, but at least be a Hyundai. If you are going to have cheap materials in the base version, you can’t have the same cheap materials in the $40k Titanium Escape as you do in the $20k Ecosport.

And in regard to the Mustang interior, you have not read enough reviews.
 
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Jomo

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How is the engine not durable? The engine is going to be rougher because it doesn't have even number of cylinders to off set NVH, so its going to act differently.
Ford, in an era increasing reliability, is using a timing belt in lieu of a chain for noise. My understanding is that this belt is a not a maintanance item. The design life of this engine can’t be much more than 150k miles.

Just wait till someone adds a can of Sea Foam to the engine oil to clean it out. I'm sure it will be great for that oil bathed rubber belt.
 
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Excape

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This thread is reminding me why I bought eight new Fords in my late twenties through my early forties, and not one since.

It still fascinates me in how their products changed in ways that lost appeal to me.
 

frinesi2

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I always assumed all timing belts were separated from the engine oil. Are timing belts exposed to oil in some engines?
 
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Jomo

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I always assumed all timing belts were separated from the engine oil. Are timing belts exposed to oil in some engines?
The Dragon engine has a belt in oil. They say they do this for efficiency and noise, but it is less costly which is the real driver. This has been done in a few Ford engines since 2008 and the history has been spotty. The thing is, it is a PITA to replace since the belt is inside.....oh, that's right, it lasts a "lifetime". Once the belt goes, the engine's life is over.

This "lifetime" maintaince is not just a Ford thing. My Mazda has "lifetime" oil for the manual transmission. Another dumb idea. I changed the oil at 50k and that oil shimmered with metal flakes. Glad I ignored the owner's manual and replaced with Redline.
 

Excape

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This "lifetime" maintaince is not just a Ford thing. My Mazda has "lifetime" oil for the manual transmission. Another dumb idea. I changed the oil at 50k and that oil shimmered with metal flakes. Glad I ignored the owner's manual and replaced with Redline.
Same here on Redline in the Mazda manual. I bet you even noticed better shifting too. I don't believe in snake oils, but each time I switched over to Redline in manuals, it was noticeable.

As for the timing belt. I don't like them dry, and I certainly wouldn't want one wet. Funny you mentioned Seafoam. I put some in my Cub Cadet lawn tractor's fuel several years ago. I ended up with a big leak and having to replace seven feet of fuel line that ran from the rear fuel tank to the front engine. The Seafoam did a number on the hose.
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